Judaism with the distinct exception of most Ethiopian and Kararite Jews, follow the Babylonian Talmud which is the Oral Law of Lies of the Pharisees written down, They follow their own books that they themselves wrote, they also follow the evil Zohar and Kabalah which are Satanic Jewish Mysticism.
I'm Messianic Jewish. Kabbalah and Talmud are both bad. Kabbalah is literally Satanic mysticism while Talmud is man's opinion presented as tradition. Most rabbis consider it above the scriptures.
Well yes. It's all over in the Torah. See, the problem with Jewish people is that they are lied to by the rabbis and the stupid Talmud. I say to my Jewish friends: "If not Yehoshuah, then who? If not then, then when?" So far, they can't answer. BTW, the Hebrew name of the Savior is amazing. It means, "I Am Salvation". The four letter name of God: Yod Hey Vav Hey as a word would be, I am. Yahuah. But, the letters singular lined up mean, "Behold the hand, Behold the nail". You put Yahuah, the name of God, I am, together with Shuah, Salvation and you get Yehoshuah, I Am Salvation. Amazing.
Basically, no Kabbalah since that's Satanic tomfoolery. The Talmud is just man's opinion and is against the prophets, sets itself above the law and God and puts the traditions of man as having greater authority.
The Laws of Moses are mostly valid and should be followed as far as a person's training and ability. The handwritten curses which were against us are done away with and with the new covenant we now can have the right spirit which enables us to truly care for each other and have the spirit of the Messiah.
We are all equal in the eyes of God and no one can claim to be over us but the Messiah who bought and paid for us with his blood sacrifice. The Torah is relevant today and from it we get our inspiration and faith. We make peace with Christians and accept them even when we disagree with them on many points. Beyond that, there's not much of what the churches would consider core beliefs. LIke, if I smoke, no one can judge me. If I drink and it's not to excess, no one is my judge. If I use colorful language, no one is to judge me but I should be accurate in my language and respect other people's feelings and sensibilities. We don't have a pastor as such but some people consider themselves sort of Rabbi and I'm cool with that. It's not like a "rabbi" is the only one who can make aliyah (go forward and speak). I've been asked to but as I was only in study on one topic I begged off until I was ready. My topic was the Law and Love. I have another topic on the family of Yehoshuah and I'm about ready on that also. I've been asked to go forward and give the blessing for the children as they spoke neither Hebrew or Russian so they miss out on stuff and need English.
Curiously, the synagogue where I went didn't find me and convert me. I already had the same beliefs on my own and one day talking to my accountant discovered that we were of the same mind. What a surprise right? We can all study separately but come together and find we have no differences. Why? Because we had no coach or mentor and let the scriptures lead us. Churches have for centuries maintained a grip on the human mind as authority over scripture. That's totally wrong. The scriptures are their own authority and no man has a right to "interpret" things privately and then tell others what it means. Christians will pray and pray and then tell us God told them what it means. Oh? But he neglected to tell me also? How unfair is that?
Of course, there are things we can all agree on. The Ten Commandments for instance. At least until we get to the Sabbath I guess. But, cheating on your wife, stealing from others, lying, murder, these are common sense stuff we should all understand.
I've had family in town and couldn't reply. Some questions I've been meaning to ask you:
accept them even when we disagree with them on many points.
What points do you disagree upon?
Do Messianic jews accept that he rose on the third day from the dead?
How large of a percentage of jews does Messianic jews comprise of the populace?
let the scriptures lead us.
This is interesting as it would call for individual study of the scriptures. Something I know not many Christians do, so they rely on the pastor/priest/preacher. I'm curious how many Messianic jews undertake this? How does one ensure correct ideology/tenants/doctrine/whatever you wish to call it is passed on over the ages?
My topic was the Law and Love.
Tell me more, if you can about this. What law? How does it relate to love?
The Ten Commandments for instance. At least until we get to the Sabbath I guess. But, cheating on your wife, stealing from others, lying, murder, these are common sense stuff we should all understand.
It is common sense to some. Not so much for others, especially the cheating, lying, stealing. People will always find ways to rationalize. Animal instinct often wins over a call to adherence to virtue.
Well, first of all, The Talmud is the work of man. It should have no authority at all. Rabbinic Judaism holds an opposing view which places the Talmud opinions and traditions of man above scriptures. Obviously, this is wrong. The Messiah rebuked the Pharisees directly on this point. There's no nuance at all there.
Then, there is a subset of Jewish people who follow the Kabballah. This is even worse as it's Satanic mysticism. I've read some of the Talmud and believe me, the cherry picked stuff may be incendiary but most of it is just boring nitpicking navel gazing foolishness. Some of it is degrading.
But the Kabbalah , I don't know, I have no interest in that. Like playing with a seance. Dangerous fooling with the forces of evil.
How large of a percentage of jews are comprised of Messianic jews?
I would say, vanishingly small here in the USA. Scattered synagogues here and there which mainstream Judaism is mostly unaware. Russian Jews who've accepted Christ were most of the synagogue I was involved with in Sacramento. Very nice people. We did have some visitors from South America. In Israel there is a much larger following which frightens mainstream Judaism and the Israeli government.
How do Messianic jews view zionism?
The rebirth of Israel as a nation is prophesied. It's all happening according to prophesy. I've done hours of study on this and came to my own understanding before I ever met a Messianic Jewish person or even knew the religion existed. When I first discovered the synagogue I was surprised to find people that believed just like I did. LOL. I thought my beliefs from my studies were mine alone. I came to my beliefs solely from my own study which was painful. I had to acknowledge that everything I had been taught was perverted doctrines. My family was unhappy and eventually just refused to talk to me about it which left us in a spot where there was tension, silence and I just walked away from them.
Anyway, back to your question. If you examine the scriptures carefully, it's prophesied that not only would the Nation of Israel be reconstituted from the diaspora and regather in their homeland, but they would return full of unbelief in the Messiah but it wasn't for their sakes they would be regathered but to honor the promise given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God keeps his promises. But, it's also prophesied that all the nations around Israel would gather to attack and nearly wipe out Israel. The remnant would escape to Petra, at least from what I gather but Israel will launch a nuclear attack that will destroy parts of Greece, Damascus and most of the invading armies. Israel will be be victorious and the survivors will be several years gathering up the bodies of the invaders. The bodies will be toxic somehow and teams will be sent out to gather the corpses. Travelers will be provided with flags to put near the bodies to alert the disposal teams. I even looked up the location where the bodies are prophesied to be disposed of. It's an actual place. Scary. But, the final prophesy says that God will begin first in the house of Jacob to remove those who do evil. I find this interesting because this is the exact opposite of Q. "We are saving Israel for last". Interesting.
Zionism? Right or wrong? I don't make such judgement calls on a simple word. People have liked to load the word with emotionalism. It's just a word. In simple terms it just means an effort for Jewish people to have their own homeland. There are 57 Islamic nations and only one Jewish nation. The world can't tolerate one Jewish nation?
let the scriptures lead us.
This is interesting as it would call for individual study of the scriptures.
Absolutely. If you are not doing your own study and learning how to understand scripture, you've accomplished no understanding of the topic and are not worthy to discuss it. This is what I find fault with main stream Christianity on. They are largely ignorant of scripture, context, Hebrew culture, refuse to understand that in translation some concepts are lost and other concepts are misunderstood. It's not easy but it's worth it for the individual to be more open minded and study, not to create a personal dogma but to gain better understanding.
Something I know not many Christians do, so they rely on the pastor/priest/preacher.
Exactly. Followers who lack understanding and the scriptures in New Testament address this problem. We are counseled to be like the Bereans who when they were told something, went to scriptures to see if it was so.
I'm curious how many Messianic jews undertake this?
I don't personally know anyone who doesn't at least do some study but I can't account for others. The people I spoke to seemed to understand references I made and were in agreement on my views. I don't recall any disagreement. Hmmm. Odd, I guess.
How does one ensure correct ideology/tenants/doctrine/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it is passed on over the ages?
That's not a problem. The scripture is there and open for all to read. No one gets to make a private interpretation as Christians do. If something is found, it's shared. Beliefs and or doctrines are not set in stone but rather explained in scriptures. There's no mental gymnastics to twist things to fit a view. Anyone doing this wouldn't find much support. The faith is too simple to make such things an issue. If I smoke, that's my business, my vice. If I drink to excess, so long as I'm not hurting others, it's my problem. No one gets to judge me or hassle me. This makes it much easier for a person to stop doing things that are personally damaging.
Tell me more, if you can about this. What law? How does it relate to love?
I just did a basic search for the number of times the law was linked to love. God really showed Israel with love so he gave them the law. The law to provide a framework for a society, protections from abuse and ways to resolve issues. People think of the Law as the Ten Commandments. There's like six hundred and some odd laws. Some are related to temple activities and many are related to societal norms. How to care for a lost animal and return to the owner. Property transfers, dietary laws. Christians like to ignore all these laws out of ignorance. However, many laws are the underpinnings of Common Law that are still used today. Shocker, right? If fruit from a tree overhangs a wall into public space, the owner of the tree is required to NOT harvest that fruit but to leave it to the public. Similar principles apply still today. If you find a lost cow, you would be required to care for it in a field next to a main road where the owner might recognize it and claim it. Then you can charge only a small amount for upkeep and must return the animal. There were laws related to marriage and inheritance as well as laws requiring sold land to be returned to original family after 50 years. Slaves or servants had to be freed after seven years, however, if a slave was abused and injured, he had to be freed with damages paid. If however a slave was happy with his master he could request to NOT be freed, receive a gold ring in his ear and make his servitude for life. Why would he choose to stay? Because he felt well cared for and secure. But it was the servants choice and had to be witnessed. So on and so forth. But, at the end of many lists of laws was the injunction to obey because God cares and loves the children of Israel.
I know you will get to this question so I answer it before you get there. Why did God choose Israel out of all nations? Why did he choose them for his own possession? His people? Because they were the best? Nope. Because they were so many and so strong? Nope. God repeatedly denied these were valid reasons and scolded his people repeatedly for their failures and misdeeds. So, why? Because of his promise to Abraham but it was a two pronged thing. They would get double blessings but double punishments if they erred. Notice, there were TWO diasporas and both were cruel and devastating and the reasons for those diasporas were explained. But, in spite of the punishments, God always held out hope that those who would listen, return to the blessings and relationship. Why? Because God proposed to give to the world the gift of salvation through Israel. It's in the scriptures. Jesus told the Israelite Pharisees that they search through scriptures for eternal life but always find reference to him, the Messiah. For this the pharisees hated Jesus and plotted to kill him. There's actually a parable Jesus told to dramatize this relationship.
It is common sense to some. Not so much for others, especially the cheating, lying, stealing. People will always find ways to rationalize. Animal instinct often wins over a call to adherence to virtue.
This is the fruit of a lying spirit. A haughty mind, (narcissism). The natural human mind is dishonest and seeks it's own benefit at all time. The law was given to us for a teacher, a primer to lead us to a greater understanding. It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
From what you have shared, there is a great deal you and I have in common with what I’m studying independently as a non-denominational Christian and your beliefs as a Messianic Jew.
God really showed Israel with love so he gave them the law.
Ah, I see. You’re referring to the Deuteronomy laws? You are correct in that Christians tend to gloss over this. When you referred to "Law and Love", I was curious if there was a book (jn your tradition) that I hadn’t read.
I believe Christians don’t spend much time in Deuteronomy because it’s seen as religious history that is not necessarily tied to our particular genealogy, as we come from many different nations. But I can see how being born jewish, there may be a rooted connection to the laws.
The more I delve into studying scripture, however, the more I find myself looking at history to understand the context of what was happening politically. There is much to learn if you want to delve and gain a deeper spiritual understanding of what has happened and what may happen.
I know you will get to this question so I answer it before you get there.
Actually, no, I wasn't about to ask it. It's very clear in scripture that God keeps His promises. It is the Israelites who turned away from Him repeatedly only to return to Him when they were subjugated by foreign rule. The book of Judges details this pattern.
I was curious if Messianic jews differed from Torah jews WRT to how they view zionism. I had a very lengthy discussion with a Torah jew a while ago who deeply opposes the state of Israel. It was an interesting take. I was under the impression that all jews support the nation of Israel. But, like Christianity, there are many sects of Judaism AFA beliefs go.
My family was unhappy and eventually just refused to talk to me about it which left us in a spot where there was tension, silence and I just walked away from them.
I am sorry to hear this. Sometimes family are the most stiff-necked when it comes to religious beliefs. My stepfather is Roman Catholic (and I was raised in Catholic school). But my study of scripture has led me to reject much of the doctrine and theology that is taught. And yes, you are correct that a lot of pagan (what I refer to as Babylon) is hidden in it. Until one undertakes studying of the symbols of Babylonian and Canaanite deities, one can't know and discern how it subverts what scripture tells us. Like the Talmud, there is a lot of manmade doctrine that displaces an individual relationship with God with an intermediary (priests and nuns).
But as a Christian accepting Jesus as the Messiah, we acknowledge that there will be a death to our former selves. What you call vice, we call sin. They are one and the same. We believe that we are made anew (hence the term “reborn” or “born again”) and saved by his sacrifice of blood upon accepting his as our savior. In my own life, I have seen and felt both subtle as well as dramatic shifts when I have spent time in the word of God. It really is a beautiful spiritual shift and transformation that takes place.
It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
Indeed. He wishes that we love and follow Him out of a sincere desire for relationship, rather than out of obligation.
Good stuff. Thanks again for your response and shedding insight.
From what you have shared, there is a great deal you and I have in common with what I’m studying independently as a non-denominational Christian and your beliefs as a Messianic Jew.
Absolutely. Christian pastors on one side and Rabbis on the other have divided good people with two false religions. The modern Judaism today which most Jews follow is based on the very "Traditions of man" (Talmud) which places itself above the Commandments of God and the Prophets warnings and admonitions tells Jews many sinister things and creates a spirit of arrogance and conceit in the Jewish mind.
Then you have many Christian leaders who dumb down Christianity with adopted Pagan ideology handed down for two thousand years. To maintain their hold over the people the pastors and church denominations often resort to guilt shaming control of their doctrines. The Catholics were the instigators of this trend to adopt pagan rites into the church in an effort to gain acceptance of the Roman population which was indeed pagan. So, for two centuries Christians and Jews have been separated by walls of doctrine. When a person carefully reads and understands the "Old Testament" (Torah and Tanakh ) as well as the New Testament, there should be no separation at all.
You may ask yourself, what happened to the Jews who believed in Christ the Messiah? (Yehoshuah ha Mashiach) First persecution by the Pharisees which gained them a social stigma as sort of outcasts. Then, Persecution by the Roman Pagans and of the scattered ones, during the Crusades the Romanized Christians coming out of Europe slaughtered those they found along the way. The Sunday keeping Christians on the instigation of the Roman Catholics slaughtered a great many Sabbath keeping Christians who had handed down their faith over the centuries. They were still in many ways Jewish in faith as well as many ethnically but they all believed in the Messiah. Just as the early believers were ALL Jewish. First the Jews, then the Greeks and so on and so forth until Rome adopted Christianity. It was the church of Rome which paganized Christianity and then spread their version by force of arms. In a way, we can thank Martin Luther for restoring at least some aspects of a less pagan form of Christianity. If the Roman Catholics had their way, we wouldn't even have this discussion today. The common man was not allowed to have scriptures on pain of death.
You’re referring to the Deuteronomy laws?
Mostly. But, remember, Before Moses, there was Abraham:
"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
You have to figure that either Moses had access to writings we know nothing about, or all was delivered to him just as it was to Abraham and Moses wrote down what he was told. This is apart from the commandments on stone, of which, are not completely lost. Not even here on this continent of America.
You are correct in that Christians tend to gloss over this.
This is because either deliberately or out of ignorance the scriptures are wrongly taught. Here is the verse: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
What is being spoken of here are the curses and penalties for disobeying the many ordinances written by Moses. Christ became a curse for us, nailed to the cross in our stead. Then, what is practical by rights, is written on our hearts in principle. Those unbelievers who violate the Ten Commandments do so out of arrogance, once more setting their own values above God because they are not regenerated by faith. They reject salvation. They are dead to the Holy Spirit. Of those, we are to give witness and testimony as is our duty and then be done with them. It's not for us to labor with them and contend with them.
When you referred to "Law and Love", I was curious if there was a book (jn your tradition) that I hadn’t read.
No, I am referring to a word search I did on my own and then paid only attention to those verses that linked the two words. More than you imagine. Law and love are linked over and over.
I believe Christians don’t spend much time in Deuteronomy because it’s seen as religious history that is not necessarily tied to our particular genealogy, as we come from many different nations. But I can see how being born jewish, there may be a rooted connection to the laws.
Try this: Research all the statutes on diet, sex and property and then see how many parallels you can find in modern law. Then, research all the animals forbidden as food and diseases that can cross infect both that animal and humans. Quite shocking. Jews because of legalism, equate Kosher laws with spiritual uncleanliness. Not so at all. The statutes clearly state it was a matter of disease. As for morality, sex with two sisters is forbidden. Not hard to see why that's an issue and the law states it clearly. It causes strife between the sisters. Just basic logic can tell you this and one need look no further than the pain between Rachel and Leah. But God used the transgression to create a way of life for the Children of Israel. First Joseph and then Moses and finally Jesus.
The more I delve into studying scripture, however, the more I find myself looking at history to understand the context of what was happening politically. There is much to learn if you want to delve and gain a deeper spiritual understanding of what has happened and what may happen.
Absolutely.
Actually, no, I wasn't about to ask it. It's very clear in scripture that God keeps His promises. It is the Israelites who turned away from Him repeatedly only to return to Him when they were subjugated by foreign rule. The book of Judges details this pattern.
Right again.
I had a very lengthy discussion with a Torah jew a while ago who deeply opposes the state of Israel.
Then I'm thinking he was basing his beliefs on the Talmud, rather than Torah or Tanakh. Certainly not based on Ezekiel. Yes, I'm aware of these people. Not worth arguing with as they go in circles. Shoddy reasoning based on lack of biblical study. They didn't get this from the bible.
My family is Seventh Day Adventist. I won't bore you with a complete rundown of their doctrines but Ellen G. White and her Husband were as ignorant as Joseph Smith and just as flaky fake. Ellen G. White actually stole material from the founder of Mormons. In fact, her cousin was married to Joseph Smith. LOL. Try telling that to an SDA member. Ellen White was a liar, a drunk, a cheat, an accuser of the brethren, a gossip, a bearer of tales, and claimed God told her things which she actually stole from other writers. Unless you are SDA and then she's a revered saint.
It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
True.
I'm thinking "We are saving Israel for last" has to do with Mossad ties to pedo & trafficking rings and their blackmail of US politicians, CEOs, judges, law enforcement, etc. Epstein was just one in a number of traffickers.
You could very well be spot on with that thinking.
The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska *
I watched the documentary. One of my adopted cousins was there for a time. So glad they didn't send me there. At that age, I was very slim and was quite disturbed when old guys would come up to me while I was traveling and proposition me. What a shock, as I had no idea what they were wanting at first. When I figured things out I got much more wary. Obviously some kids have an innocent look these perverts are after.
Christian pastors on one side and Rabbis on the other have divided good people with two false religions.
Very true. Doctrine is there to guide us towards living an earthly life that doesn’t blemish the spiritual life. People easily get caught up in doctrine and live with their minds but not with their hearts. This is a sin of pride. Believers are called to embody both mind and heart in order to capture the spirit and live with humility.
It’s sad. I see stuff about Joel Osteen marching with BLM or Kenneth Copeland trying to exorcise COVID19 and I SMH. False teachers and prophets. Then of course there are rabbis who teach that goyim are cattle for jews.
Extremists of any kind will gain attention so non-believers can use them as reasons to tarnish those who live quietly in their faith. It’s a tactic that I see used politically by those who want to keep people divided.
My family is Seventh Day Adventist.
That’s interesting that you are from SDA. I know a little about it but wasn’t aware of the origin story on it. I recall skimming over SDA beliefs a while ago and thinking to myself how similar it was to Mormon doctrine. When I was researching churches to attend when I moved, the first thing I would look up was their belief statement.
I’m curious, why did you choose to follow Messianic Judaism and not say, Protestantism? It's always interesting to me to learn about a person's spiritual path and see how they arrive at the conclusions they did.
When a person carefully reads and understands the "Old Testament" (Torah and Tanakh ) as well as the New Testament, there should be no separation at all.
Absolutely. A quote from a Christian author whose books I enjoy:
“Unity is necessary to the outpouring of the Spirit of God. If you have 120 volts of electricity coming into your house but you have broken wiring, you may turn on the switch, but nothing works – no lights come on, the stove doesn’t warm, the radio doesn’t turn on. Why? Because you have broken wiring. The power is ready to do its work…, but where there is broken wiring, there is no power. Unity is necessary among the children of God if we are going to know the flow of power…to see God do His wonders.” ~ AW Tozer
Doctrine is there to guide us towards living an earthly life that doesn’t blemish the spiritual life
Not to be dismissive, because you have a point, but to me, it's based on partial understanding.
The problem I have with "doctrine" is that once some person decides on an established doctrine, and begins to from an organization around it, you end up with a hierarchy where one man or group of men decide they can tell others what is and what isn't. Mind control, thought control. Second part, the purpose of what you state should be the highest goal of doctrine is what is only a side effect.
From what I read, the purpose of the scriptures was to not only chronicle history of the Israelites, but to reveal to the world the plan of salvation for a doomed people, starting with the fall of Adam and Eve who lost their immortality and how the plan was to unfold, how it was executed and then to spread the concept to the entire world. "Your sins have separated you from me". So, yes, Tozer is right. The plan was to restore unity between God and man.
What most people fail to understand, is what exactly is the nature of sin. In a legalistic way, it's disobeying the commandments of God. But, when I read what Jesus had to say to the "rich young ruler", he condensed the commandments down to just two: Love God and love each other, "As I have loved you". So, what's love? There's a whole chapter on that. I read it through many times and pondered over it and basically, from what I can read, it's underlying principle is selfless devotion to caring for others as much as you would care for yourself and God. The first commandment deals with a love for God and the second in legalese deals with violations of that love for fellow man.
Here's what gets to me on the Sabbath question. It's right in the middle of those two principles. The Catholic church was the one that changed this day from the seventh to the first day of the week and then all the off shoots of the Catholics got behind them in lockstep to develop sophistry and doctrine defending the Catholic's doctrines on Sabbath. The simplest thing to do then is discover the original reason Catholics decided to make a change. It's not hard to discover the truth. Pagan Rome worshiped on Sunday. The Sun God. The government of Rome wished to Christianize the Romans to develop a unified government. This was a practical decision, entirely pragmatic. One religion, one government. The top priests can excommunicate anyone and damn them to hell if earthly rulers don't fall in line. Basically, the Catholic church was wedded to the Pagan Roman Empire because it was the Roman Empire that created the church. Not the other way around. To seduce the population, all Pagan Roman religious ideas, symbols, traditions and statues were Christianized. Sun Day worship was Christianized as well and the former Christians who worshiped on Saturday were vilified. See, when Rome was converted by the government, the feeding of believers to the coliseums for entertainment, never actually ended just because all Rome was now Christian. The original believers either went along with the new upgraded Christianity or were executed as heretics. And, this is why I'm a bit put off by church "doctrines" and more important I suppose, is a wedding of Church to State. It never seems to go well for those who don't agree. This is also why Islam is so dangerous. Islam has from it's conception been a religion wedded to government and always will be so. Uncouple Islam from government and you end up with a toothless tiger. If you've read the Koran you know exactly what I am talking about.
It's my thinking that the statutes, precepts, and Ten Commandments don't actually wed the ancient government of Israel that firmly to the the religion. Moses gave his handwritten law to the people with blessings and curses attached. What I've read in the New Testament is that the curses were done away with. The laws concerning temple sacrifice were also done away with. The Temple was to no longer be central to Israel but rather a decentralized faith. If you don't have a temple, you don't have a high priest. With that structure of organization broken, then the tithe goes with it. The faith must rely only on free will offerings. Watch closely how pastors now ask for tithe. Then research how tithe was structured for Israel. The SDA church completely reverses how tithe was supposed to be organized. Tithe in Ancient Israel was bottom up. First to the local synagogues and then ten percent of that to the Temple in Jerusalem. SDA church takes ALL the tithe from the people directly and then doles it out to the pastors and churches. Fall afoul of doctrine and get fired. Only they make it seem really bad by calling it, "defrock". Seriously, how far from the Catholics are they?
People easily get caught up in doctrine and live with their minds but not with their hearts.
Exactly. And this is how you can have people within a church who outwardly live very careful Christian lives but if you deal with them, they can destroy your reputation and cause damaged relationships with others in a church. It's only later after they've gained your trust that the backstabbing begins in earnest.
Joel Osteen marching with BLM
Wow. I didn't know about that. I remember on project supervisor I worked for (Really nice guy) got sucked into that and wanted me to go to that church with him. It was in Houston. You know, the one that flooded. Well, I listened to the guy online and listened to my supervisor and discovered huge holes in his "doctrine". My supervisor would whine about how his wife just didn't love him anymore after he cheated on her. She even started to cheat on him. Oh, but he thought God should fix all that for him and Osteen had him convinced God is gonna make it all better. Nope. I tried to tell him, if you've damaged your relationship, it's great neither one of you are cheating anymore but that doesn't mean the relationship is just supposed to come back overnight. You now have negative history. Anyway, Osteen convinced him there's no consequence for wrong doing and it's all gonna be fine. The man went back to cheating on his wife again. Thanks Joel, for nothing.
My personal experience with wrong doing and consequences: If you are guilty, the feeling is crushing. I've also been falsely charged for stuff and beating false accusers in court is liberating. Even understanding why people were coming after me to lie, just made me feel strong and bold. It's amazing Christ took our guilt and our punishment to himself. That's what salvation and the bible is really all about. We're born into sin, with a fallen nature from birth. The plan of salvation was to remove that negative birthright and restore the original innocence and more. A knowledge of right and wrong and a restored relationship. Only an animal can be truly innocent of sin because only an animal has no concept of right and wrong. Without that restoration, we can have an understanding of right and wrong, but no inclination to do the right thing beyond our own best short term interests.
rabbis who teach that goyim are cattle for jews.
Right. Talmud teaching. Talmud is interesting for understanding modern mainstream Judaism, but gee, it's loaded with stupid opinions and rationalizations to excuse asinine ideas and bad behavior. At the end of the day, Jews would do well to excise the garbage, keep what makes sense and then still consider it only man's opinion. If they can't do that, then the entire body of work needs to be trashed.
I recall skimming over SDA beliefs a while ago and thinking to myself how similar it was to Mormon doctrine.
Ellen G. White was ruthless in stealing writings of others. "I was shown". scattered all through her writings. She basically stole the writings of others to cobble together her own doctrines kind of like how Scientology was formed.
I’m curious, why did you choose to follow Messianic Judaism
I didn't choose Messianic Judaism, but rather, I just realized from talking with friends at the synogogue that they believed most closely with what I already understood and didn't mind having me share the results of my study with them. I would say, most protestant churches have adopted or adapted doctrines from the Catholic church and this includes the SDA church so I can't accept their teachings beyond in a more general way.
When I would discuss things with leaders from the local synogogue, there really was never conflict. No angry arguments and defense of the faith. Just the facts based on scriptures. I never even saw one pamphlet, church book on doctrines or anything like that at all. Anyone could go to the front of the congregation and share what he had read and what he thought about it. Try that at a Catholic church or JW or SDA. See how quick you get tossed out.
In addition, I find that of Mormons, SDA, and Jehovah's Witnesses all have one thing in common. Their founders were heavily involved with the Masons with the J.W's coming a bit later. Mormons get a bit worked up when I point this out, SDA believers also are a bit uncomfortable with this and will deny it. J.W's also will get upset and run off on you if you bring this up. It's not really their fault and especially not the fault of SDA members because from the start they are taught how bad the Catholic church is and how satanic Masons are.
You're welcome. Think about this, the very first believers were all Jewish. If I remember right, 5000 in a single day believed on the Messiah. Of course, when the movement reached the pagans, it was then that things gradually became corrupted with pagan customs. The worst was when the Romans converted from their pagan religions under order of their government. To pacify these early Christians the Romans sponsored churches, let them keep their statues and just changed the names under the statues. Romans were experts at pacification and propaganda.
There are actually two Talmuds. Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds. Different sects of jews follow which ever one. But yeah your right. Everything they teach though and practice today was learned in BC time and passed down. Things have changed and been added/deleted but the main practices remain the same.
Na, there are many Messianic jews who grew up Jewish and accepted Jesus later in life. It's a sick culture but it's like Mormonism, Amish, Jehova's Witnesses, etc. It's possible to wake up and reject it. It's not their DNA that's evil, it's their upbringings, teaching from the Talmud and Kabbalah, and other indoctrinations hidden deep in their beliefs. And when you learn that you're better than "goyim" all yoru life because of your blood, pride and ego takes over.
Like Jesus said, they aren't of their Father God because they are related to Abraham, they are of their father the Devil because of their spiritual mindset and condition.
And to add to that I as a Christian have a better understanding of what Judaism is than they do.
Most practicing Jews do not read the psalms the most uplifting poetry of God ever written or to be written.
If we do this right many of the Jews are going to come around and think about how crushing that is going to be to those who do not?
We are going through the beginning of the end, Jesus was and is the Son of God, this World is going away and his kingdom is coming. 10,000 year reign Im thinking.
Time and space are slowing down, we are entering ground hog day until we awake to the power of Jesus Christ.
He comes back to get something good this is not it.
You sound like Tallest Skill or HeyGeorge. One of those polarity-thinking people here on Voat that have zero capability of analyzing the grey area. Always pushing your strict doctrines.
Many are also under trauma based mind control due to being taught lies about the holocaust. When you learn from an early age that your family would have been a lot larger, but Uncle Bernie and Aunt Miralda were turned into lampshades after being put in a masturbation machine and roller coaster of death, it causes some fucked up trauma in kids.
in the book of Joshua, God commanded isrealites (white people) to kill every single canannite MAN WOMAN AND CHILD. The bible is not some willy nilly book for pussies who let people walk over them. We are warriors. The fact that our ancestors disobeyed the order and showed mercy via enslaving some of the canaanites is exactly what has led to our predicament in 2020.
And just think; when all the Jews are gone you will still have the Rothchilds and $040$'s and the rest of the "elite" still ruling the planet and you and yours will be totally eliminated. Praise the Lord!
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The spirit of their religion that drove them was the same and it was never part of God,
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Jesus wasn't a jew. He was described by the Romans the same way that achilles was described, as a golden boy(blond hair, blue eyes). In fact, multiple times it is mentioned that he was a pure Hebrew, and not that he was Jewish. Jesus Christ hated jews, he believed them to be the spawn of satan. This is further confirmed through John. Jesus being Jewish is a Jewish made revision to the holy texts.
I've always suspected that the devil targeted this group because it included Christ and so many of the prophets. Its obvious that his tentacles wrapped around aspects of Judaism, the Talmud for example.
Not so sure the worldwide pyramids were built by the cult, since they try and infiltrate and pervert everything, several obvious reasons are mocking human spirit, creativity and God... we still see it everyday.
An example is the planned parenthood building modeled after a Mayan pyramid, maybe it's true, although personally i haven't researched the topic enough, on the other hand we do know for sure that [they] pervert and censor history, to hide history, truth and righteousness...
Not so sure all the worldwide pyramids were built by the cult, since they try and infiltrate and pervert everything, several obvious reasons are mocking human spirit, creativity and God... we still see it everyday.
Follow the nazi “archaeologists”. They found aryans all over the world. They might also call present day North Korea a very “aryan” nation.
The “cult” you refer to came to our world through ancient Babylon and the Babylonian Captivity. Many call this cult the Babylonian Mystery Schools, after the way they presented as “schools” of “pondering the ancient mysteries” in the ancient world. The Babylonians learned it from the Sumerians, and that is where the trail starts to go cool.
However, a review of ancient and antediluvian Tibet is, uh, illuminating. The Himalayas were long recognized as the highest on earth. The Lamas had a widely known and fearful reputation for brutal human sacrifice. The original religion of Buddhism (the tale of Buddha, btw, is also the tale of Jesus) was written and strictly interpreted. The Lamas introduced Buddhist Talmudism to Buddhism! What was tantra? How was it practiced in Tibet? What were charnel fields? Could anyone practice tantra? Or only the most illuminated? Could it be called sex magick? What did Alistair Crowley and “Madame Blavatsky” write about Tibet? What is a shatkona?
Great comment thx, did a quick check to see of i could find a good video on antedluvian Tibet but at first sight most vids are generic, got any good video link?
Setting aside all the innovations and corruptions since the 1st century, being "Jewish" in the pure sense of claiming to follow only the Torah of Moses, the Prophets and Wisdom in what the rest of us call the Old Testament -- is at best tragically incomplete. At worst it's being stubbornly ignorant because that Old Testament to now stand on its own is an empty shell for anyone to try and faithfully live by.
The Prophets and the sacred writings literally have no value if (a) Messiah has not already come, and (b) if the temple and system of priestly sacrifice were swept away into history, they have no conclusion to what the prophets were pointing them to, and no means to commune with YHWH that is lawfully acceptable.
Yeshua is the english pronunciation of the hebrew name. Its incorrect as we do not have the correct hebrew spoken language. They have the written but they don't speak it correctly. So any pronunciation aside from Jesus unless is Jesus is another known language is incorrect. The NT was written in Greek and Aramaic.
I know I can't pronounce it like they did. Just saying if the tribe is named yahuda and he's name yahshua then chances are His name isn't Yahweh. Pretty sure the karaites and the closest English spelling would be Yahua or Yahooa.
Nope. The jews descendants are the Canaanites, put simply. They are one and the same. Jews are acting like their descendants because DNA determines behavior.
Genetically, there is no such thing as a Jew... as they are just Cannanites.
However, the Khazarians chose Judaism as their official religion so they wouldn't have to pay tribute to either the Sultan or the Pope. They have zero genetic relationship to Canaanites.
The Khazarian Jews are fake jews, but control the Jewish apparatus via the Zionist movement. In fact, they are using Israel to exterminate the real genetic Jews, the Palestinians.
However, the center of power is the secret society that has nested itself in the leadership of the Zionists, the Wahabbists and the Jesuits. These are the occultists. "Occult" literally meaning "hidden." They are into hiding everything and using hidden knowledge. They use occult practices of many traditions and are always looking to amplify their "occult" powers. They derive their power specifically from their ability to hide and operate with hidden means.
I probably will...I just wanna know why people want to kill all of us because of the satanic ones. There are bad people in every religion but here people only act like its Jews. Pretty sure high level Catholics and muslims do fucked up shit too.
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25068308? ago
Judaism with the distinct exception of most Ethiopian and Kararite Jews, follow the Babylonian Talmud which is the Oral Law of Lies of the Pharisees written down, They follow their own books that they themselves wrote, they also follow the evil Zohar and Kabalah which are Satanic Jewish Mysticism.
25072837? ago
All jews are born evil. The further we get into this, the less of you there will be who emotionally deny it..
25071220? ago
I'm Messianic Jewish. Kabbalah and Talmud are both bad. Kabbalah is literally Satanic mysticism while Talmud is man's opinion presented as tradition. Most rabbis consider it above the scriptures.
25074536? ago
So do you believe Jesus is our Lord and savior or do you believe we are still waiting for our savior to appear?
25084101? ago
Well yes. It's all over in the Torah. See, the problem with Jewish people is that they are lied to by the rabbis and the stupid Talmud. I say to my Jewish friends: "If not Yehoshuah, then who? If not then, then when?" So far, they can't answer. BTW, the Hebrew name of the Savior is amazing. It means, "I Am Salvation". The four letter name of God: Yod Hey Vav Hey as a word would be, I am. Yahuah. But, the letters singular lined up mean, "Behold the hand, Behold the nail". You put Yahuah, the name of God, I am, together with Shuah, Salvation and you get Yehoshuah, I Am Salvation. Amazing.
25074112? ago
What is Messianic Jewish and its core tenants?
25539118? ago
Please straighten this guy out, please. He seems to think the RCC is the one true church.
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25084059? ago
Basically, no Kabbalah since that's Satanic tomfoolery. The Talmud is just man's opinion and is against the prophets, sets itself above the law and God and puts the traditions of man as having greater authority.
The Laws of Moses are mostly valid and should be followed as far as a person's training and ability. The handwritten curses which were against us are done away with and with the new covenant we now can have the right spirit which enables us to truly care for each other and have the spirit of the Messiah.
We are all equal in the eyes of God and no one can claim to be over us but the Messiah who bought and paid for us with his blood sacrifice. The Torah is relevant today and from it we get our inspiration and faith. We make peace with Christians and accept them even when we disagree with them on many points. Beyond that, there's not much of what the churches would consider core beliefs. LIke, if I smoke, no one can judge me. If I drink and it's not to excess, no one is my judge. If I use colorful language, no one is to judge me but I should be accurate in my language and respect other people's feelings and sensibilities. We don't have a pastor as such but some people consider themselves sort of Rabbi and I'm cool with that. It's not like a "rabbi" is the only one who can make aliyah (go forward and speak). I've been asked to but as I was only in study on one topic I begged off until I was ready. My topic was the Law and Love. I have another topic on the family of Yehoshuah and I'm about ready on that also. I've been asked to go forward and give the blessing for the children as they spoke neither Hebrew or Russian so they miss out on stuff and need English.
Curiously, the synagogue where I went didn't find me and convert me. I already had the same beliefs on my own and one day talking to my accountant discovered that we were of the same mind. What a surprise right? We can all study separately but come together and find we have no differences. Why? Because we had no coach or mentor and let the scriptures lead us. Churches have for centuries maintained a grip on the human mind as authority over scripture. That's totally wrong. The scriptures are their own authority and no man has a right to "interpret" things privately and then tell others what it means. Christians will pray and pray and then tell us God told them what it means. Oh? But he neglected to tell me also? How unfair is that?
Of course, there are things we can all agree on. The Ten Commandments for instance. At least until we get to the Sabbath I guess. But, cheating on your wife, stealing from others, lying, murder, these are common sense stuff we should all understand.
25164804? ago
I've had family in town and couldn't reply. Some questions I've been meaning to ask you:
What points do you disagree upon?
Do Messianic jews accept that he rose on the third day from the dead?
How large of a percentage of jews does Messianic jews comprise of the populace?
This is interesting as it would call for individual study of the scriptures. Something I know not many Christians do, so they rely on the pastor/priest/preacher. I'm curious how many Messianic jews undertake this? How does one ensure correct ideology/tenants/doctrine/whatever you wish to call it is passed on over the ages?
Tell me more, if you can about this. What law? How does it relate to love?
It is common sense to some. Not so much for others, especially the cheating, lying, stealing. People will always find ways to rationalize. Animal instinct often wins over a call to adherence to virtue.
25166634? ago
Well, first of all, The Talmud is the work of man. It should have no authority at all. Rabbinic Judaism holds an opposing view which places the Talmud opinions and traditions of man above scriptures. Obviously, this is wrong. The Messiah rebuked the Pharisees directly on this point. There's no nuance at all there.
Then, there is a subset of Jewish people who follow the Kabballah. This is even worse as it's Satanic mysticism. I've read some of the Talmud and believe me, the cherry picked stuff may be incendiary but most of it is just boring nitpicking navel gazing foolishness. Some of it is degrading.
But the Kabbalah , I don't know, I have no interest in that. Like playing with a seance. Dangerous fooling with the forces of evil.
I would say, vanishingly small here in the USA. Scattered synagogues here and there which mainstream Judaism is mostly unaware. Russian Jews who've accepted Christ were most of the synagogue I was involved with in Sacramento. Very nice people. We did have some visitors from South America. In Israel there is a much larger following which frightens mainstream Judaism and the Israeli government.
The rebirth of Israel as a nation is prophesied. It's all happening according to prophesy. I've done hours of study on this and came to my own understanding before I ever met a Messianic Jewish person or even knew the religion existed. When I first discovered the synagogue I was surprised to find people that believed just like I did. LOL. I thought my beliefs from my studies were mine alone. I came to my beliefs solely from my own study which was painful. I had to acknowledge that everything I had been taught was perverted doctrines. My family was unhappy and eventually just refused to talk to me about it which left us in a spot where there was tension, silence and I just walked away from them.
Anyway, back to your question. If you examine the scriptures carefully, it's prophesied that not only would the Nation of Israel be reconstituted from the diaspora and regather in their homeland, but they would return full of unbelief in the Messiah but it wasn't for their sakes they would be regathered but to honor the promise given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God keeps his promises. But, it's also prophesied that all the nations around Israel would gather to attack and nearly wipe out Israel. The remnant would escape to Petra, at least from what I gather but Israel will launch a nuclear attack that will destroy parts of Greece, Damascus and most of the invading armies. Israel will be be victorious and the survivors will be several years gathering up the bodies of the invaders. The bodies will be toxic somehow and teams will be sent out to gather the corpses. Travelers will be provided with flags to put near the bodies to alert the disposal teams. I even looked up the location where the bodies are prophesied to be disposed of. It's an actual place. Scary. But, the final prophesy says that God will begin first in the house of Jacob to remove those who do evil. I find this interesting because this is the exact opposite of Q. "We are saving Israel for last". Interesting.
Zionism? Right or wrong? I don't make such judgement calls on a simple word. People have liked to load the word with emotionalism. It's just a word. In simple terms it just means an effort for Jewish people to have their own homeland. There are 57 Islamic nations and only one Jewish nation. The world can't tolerate one Jewish nation?
Absolutely. If you are not doing your own study and learning how to understand scripture, you've accomplished no understanding of the topic and are not worthy to discuss it. This is what I find fault with main stream Christianity on. They are largely ignorant of scripture, context, Hebrew culture, refuse to understand that in translation some concepts are lost and other concepts are misunderstood. It's not easy but it's worth it for the individual to be more open minded and study, not to create a personal dogma but to gain better understanding.
Exactly. Followers who lack understanding and the scriptures in New Testament address this problem. We are counseled to be like the Bereans who when they were told something, went to scriptures to see if it was so.
I don't personally know anyone who doesn't at least do some study but I can't account for others. The people I spoke to seemed to understand references I made and were in agreement on my views. I don't recall any disagreement. Hmmm. Odd, I guess.
That's not a problem. The scripture is there and open for all to read. No one gets to make a private interpretation as Christians do. If something is found, it's shared. Beliefs and or doctrines are not set in stone but rather explained in scriptures. There's no mental gymnastics to twist things to fit a view. Anyone doing this wouldn't find much support. The faith is too simple to make such things an issue. If I smoke, that's my business, my vice. If I drink to excess, so long as I'm not hurting others, it's my problem. No one gets to judge me or hassle me. This makes it much easier for a person to stop doing things that are personally damaging.
I just did a basic search for the number of times the law was linked to love. God really showed Israel with love so he gave them the law. The law to provide a framework for a society, protections from abuse and ways to resolve issues. People think of the Law as the Ten Commandments. There's like six hundred and some odd laws. Some are related to temple activities and many are related to societal norms. How to care for a lost animal and return to the owner. Property transfers, dietary laws. Christians like to ignore all these laws out of ignorance. However, many laws are the underpinnings of Common Law that are still used today. Shocker, right? If fruit from a tree overhangs a wall into public space, the owner of the tree is required to NOT harvest that fruit but to leave it to the public. Similar principles apply still today. If you find a lost cow, you would be required to care for it in a field next to a main road where the owner might recognize it and claim it. Then you can charge only a small amount for upkeep and must return the animal. There were laws related to marriage and inheritance as well as laws requiring sold land to be returned to original family after 50 years. Slaves or servants had to be freed after seven years, however, if a slave was abused and injured, he had to be freed with damages paid. If however a slave was happy with his master he could request to NOT be freed, receive a gold ring in his ear and make his servitude for life. Why would he choose to stay? Because he felt well cared for and secure. But it was the servants choice and had to be witnessed. So on and so forth. But, at the end of many lists of laws was the injunction to obey because God cares and loves the children of Israel.
I know you will get to this question so I answer it before you get there. Why did God choose Israel out of all nations? Why did he choose them for his own possession? His people? Because they were the best? Nope. Because they were so many and so strong? Nope. God repeatedly denied these were valid reasons and scolded his people repeatedly for their failures and misdeeds. So, why? Because of his promise to Abraham but it was a two pronged thing. They would get double blessings but double punishments if they erred. Notice, there were TWO diasporas and both were cruel and devastating and the reasons for those diasporas were explained. But, in spite of the punishments, God always held out hope that those who would listen, return to the blessings and relationship. Why? Because God proposed to give to the world the gift of salvation through Israel. It's in the scriptures. Jesus told the Israelite Pharisees that they search through scriptures for eternal life but always find reference to him, the Messiah. For this the pharisees hated Jesus and plotted to kill him. There's actually a parable Jesus told to dramatize this relationship.
This is the fruit of a lying spirit. A haughty mind, (narcissism). The natural human mind is dishonest and seeks it's own benefit at all time. The law was given to us for a teacher, a primer to lead us to a greater understanding. It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
25168936? ago
From what you have shared, there is a great deal you and I have in common with what I’m studying independently as a non-denominational Christian and your beliefs as a Messianic Jew.
Ah, I see. You’re referring to the Deuteronomy laws? You are correct in that Christians tend to gloss over this. When you referred to "Law and Love", I was curious if there was a book (jn your tradition) that I hadn’t read.
I believe Christians don’t spend much time in Deuteronomy because it’s seen as religious history that is not necessarily tied to our particular genealogy, as we come from many different nations. But I can see how being born jewish, there may be a rooted connection to the laws.
The more I delve into studying scripture, however, the more I find myself looking at history to understand the context of what was happening politically. There is much to learn if you want to delve and gain a deeper spiritual understanding of what has happened and what may happen.
Actually, no, I wasn't about to ask it. It's very clear in scripture that God keeps His promises. It is the Israelites who turned away from Him repeatedly only to return to Him when they were subjugated by foreign rule. The book of Judges details this pattern.
I was curious if Messianic jews differed from Torah jews WRT to how they view zionism. I had a very lengthy discussion with a Torah jew a while ago who deeply opposes the state of Israel. It was an interesting take. I was under the impression that all jews support the nation of Israel. But, like Christianity, there are many sects of Judaism AFA beliefs go.
I am sorry to hear this. Sometimes family are the most stiff-necked when it comes to religious beliefs. My stepfather is Roman Catholic (and I was raised in Catholic school). But my study of scripture has led me to reject much of the doctrine and theology that is taught. And yes, you are correct that a lot of pagan (what I refer to as Babylon) is hidden in it. Until one undertakes studying of the symbols of Babylonian and Canaanite deities, one can't know and discern how it subverts what scripture tells us. Like the Talmud, there is a lot of manmade doctrine that displaces an individual relationship with God with an intermediary (priests and nuns).
But as a Christian accepting Jesus as the Messiah, we acknowledge that there will be a death to our former selves. What you call vice, we call sin. They are one and the same. We believe that we are made anew (hence the term “reborn” or “born again”) and saved by his sacrifice of blood upon accepting his as our savior. In my own life, I have seen and felt both subtle as well as dramatic shifts when I have spent time in the word of God. It really is a beautiful spiritual shift and transformation that takes place.
Indeed. He wishes that we love and follow Him out of a sincere desire for relationship, rather than out of obligation.
Good stuff. Thanks again for your response and shedding insight.
25539051? ago
Help me out with this retard please? https://voat.co/v/QRV/4013972/25534389
25539039? ago
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25539025? ago
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25169838? ago
Absolutely. Christian pastors on one side and Rabbis on the other have divided good people with two false religions. The modern Judaism today which most Jews follow is based on the very "Traditions of man" (Talmud) which places itself above the Commandments of God and the Prophets warnings and admonitions tells Jews many sinister things and creates a spirit of arrogance and conceit in the Jewish mind.
Then you have many Christian leaders who dumb down Christianity with adopted Pagan ideology handed down for two thousand years. To maintain their hold over the people the pastors and church denominations often resort to guilt shaming control of their doctrines. The Catholics were the instigators of this trend to adopt pagan rites into the church in an effort to gain acceptance of the Roman population which was indeed pagan. So, for two centuries Christians and Jews have been separated by walls of doctrine. When a person carefully reads and understands the "Old Testament" (Torah and Tanakh ) as well as the New Testament, there should be no separation at all.
You may ask yourself, what happened to the Jews who believed in Christ the Messiah? (Yehoshuah ha Mashiach) First persecution by the Pharisees which gained them a social stigma as sort of outcasts. Then, Persecution by the Roman Pagans and of the scattered ones, during the Crusades the Romanized Christians coming out of Europe slaughtered those they found along the way. The Sunday keeping Christians on the instigation of the Roman Catholics slaughtered a great many Sabbath keeping Christians who had handed down their faith over the centuries. They were still in many ways Jewish in faith as well as many ethnically but they all believed in the Messiah. Just as the early believers were ALL Jewish. First the Jews, then the Greeks and so on and so forth until Rome adopted Christianity. It was the church of Rome which paganized Christianity and then spread their version by force of arms. In a way, we can thank Martin Luther for restoring at least some aspects of a less pagan form of Christianity. If the Roman Catholics had their way, we wouldn't even have this discussion today. The common man was not allowed to have scriptures on pain of death.
Mostly. But, remember, Before Moses, there was Abraham:
"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
You have to figure that either Moses had access to writings we know nothing about, or all was delivered to him just as it was to Abraham and Moses wrote down what he was told. This is apart from the commandments on stone, of which, are not completely lost. Not even here on this continent of America.
This is because either deliberately or out of ignorance the scriptures are wrongly taught. Here is the verse: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
What is being spoken of here are the curses and penalties for disobeying the many ordinances written by Moses. Christ became a curse for us, nailed to the cross in our stead. Then, what is practical by rights, is written on our hearts in principle. Those unbelievers who violate the Ten Commandments do so out of arrogance, once more setting their own values above God because they are not regenerated by faith. They reject salvation. They are dead to the Holy Spirit. Of those, we are to give witness and testimony as is our duty and then be done with them. It's not for us to labor with them and contend with them.
No, I am referring to a word search I did on my own and then paid only attention to those verses that linked the two words. More than you imagine. Law and love are linked over and over.
Try this: Research all the statutes on diet, sex and property and then see how many parallels you can find in modern law. Then, research all the animals forbidden as food and diseases that can cross infect both that animal and humans. Quite shocking. Jews because of legalism, equate Kosher laws with spiritual uncleanliness. Not so at all. The statutes clearly state it was a matter of disease. As for morality, sex with two sisters is forbidden. Not hard to see why that's an issue and the law states it clearly. It causes strife between the sisters. Just basic logic can tell you this and one need look no further than the pain between Rachel and Leah. But God used the transgression to create a way of life for the Children of Israel. First Joseph and then Moses and finally Jesus.
Absolutely.
Right again.
Then I'm thinking he was basing his beliefs on the Talmud, rather than Torah or Tanakh. Certainly not based on Ezekiel. Yes, I'm aware of these people. Not worth arguing with as they go in circles. Shoddy reasoning based on lack of biblical study. They didn't get this from the bible.
My family is Seventh Day Adventist. I won't bore you with a complete rundown of their doctrines but Ellen G. White and her Husband were as ignorant as Joseph Smith and just as flaky fake. Ellen G. White actually stole material from the founder of Mormons. In fact, her cousin was married to Joseph Smith. LOL. Try telling that to an SDA member. Ellen White was a liar, a drunk, a cheat, an accuser of the brethren, a gossip, a bearer of tales, and claimed God told her things which she actually stole from other writers. Unless you are SDA and then she's a revered saint.
True.
You could very well be spot on with that thinking.
I watched the documentary. One of my adopted cousins was there for a time. So glad they didn't send me there. At that age, I was very slim and was quite disturbed when old guys would come up to me while I was traveling and proposition me. What a shock, as I had no idea what they were wanting at first. When I figured things out I got much more wary. Obviously some kids have an innocent look these perverts are after.
25194694? ago
Very true. Doctrine is there to guide us towards living an earthly life that doesn’t blemish the spiritual life. People easily get caught up in doctrine and live with their minds but not with their hearts. This is a sin of pride. Believers are called to embody both mind and heart in order to capture the spirit and live with humility.
It’s sad. I see stuff about Joel Osteen marching with BLM or Kenneth Copeland trying to exorcise COVID19 and I SMH. False teachers and prophets. Then of course there are rabbis who teach that goyim are cattle for jews.
Extremists of any kind will gain attention so non-believers can use them as reasons to tarnish those who live quietly in their faith. It’s a tactic that I see used politically by those who want to keep people divided.
That’s interesting that you are from SDA. I know a little about it but wasn’t aware of the origin story on it. I recall skimming over SDA beliefs a while ago and thinking to myself how similar it was to Mormon doctrine. When I was researching churches to attend when I moved, the first thing I would look up was their belief statement.
I’m curious, why did you choose to follow Messianic Judaism and not say, Protestantism? It's always interesting to me to learn about a person's spiritual path and see how they arrive at the conclusions they did.
Absolutely. A quote from a Christian author whose books I enjoy:
“Unity is necessary to the outpouring of the Spirit of God. If you have 120 volts of electricity coming into your house but you have broken wiring, you may turn on the switch, but nothing works – no lights come on, the stove doesn’t warm, the radio doesn’t turn on. Why? Because you have broken wiring. The power is ready to do its work…, but where there is broken wiring, there is no power. Unity is necessary among the children of God if we are going to know the flow of power…to see God do His wonders.” ~ AW Tozer
25200294? ago
Not to be dismissive, because you have a point, but to me, it's based on partial understanding.
The problem I have with "doctrine" is that once some person decides on an established doctrine, and begins to from an organization around it, you end up with a hierarchy where one man or group of men decide they can tell others what is and what isn't. Mind control, thought control. Second part, the purpose of what you state should be the highest goal of doctrine is what is only a side effect.
From what I read, the purpose of the scriptures was to not only chronicle history of the Israelites, but to reveal to the world the plan of salvation for a doomed people, starting with the fall of Adam and Eve who lost their immortality and how the plan was to unfold, how it was executed and then to spread the concept to the entire world. "Your sins have separated you from me". So, yes, Tozer is right. The plan was to restore unity between God and man.
What most people fail to understand, is what exactly is the nature of sin. In a legalistic way, it's disobeying the commandments of God. But, when I read what Jesus had to say to the "rich young ruler", he condensed the commandments down to just two: Love God and love each other, "As I have loved you". So, what's love? There's a whole chapter on that. I read it through many times and pondered over it and basically, from what I can read, it's underlying principle is selfless devotion to caring for others as much as you would care for yourself and God. The first commandment deals with a love for God and the second in legalese deals with violations of that love for fellow man.
Here's what gets to me on the Sabbath question. It's right in the middle of those two principles. The Catholic church was the one that changed this day from the seventh to the first day of the week and then all the off shoots of the Catholics got behind them in lockstep to develop sophistry and doctrine defending the Catholic's doctrines on Sabbath. The simplest thing to do then is discover the original reason Catholics decided to make a change. It's not hard to discover the truth. Pagan Rome worshiped on Sunday. The Sun God. The government of Rome wished to Christianize the Romans to develop a unified government. This was a practical decision, entirely pragmatic. One religion, one government. The top priests can excommunicate anyone and damn them to hell if earthly rulers don't fall in line. Basically, the Catholic church was wedded to the Pagan Roman Empire because it was the Roman Empire that created the church. Not the other way around. To seduce the population, all Pagan Roman religious ideas, symbols, traditions and statues were Christianized. Sun Day worship was Christianized as well and the former Christians who worshiped on Saturday were vilified. See, when Rome was converted by the government, the feeding of believers to the coliseums for entertainment, never actually ended just because all Rome was now Christian. The original believers either went along with the new upgraded Christianity or were executed as heretics. And, this is why I'm a bit put off by church "doctrines" and more important I suppose, is a wedding of Church to State. It never seems to go well for those who don't agree. This is also why Islam is so dangerous. Islam has from it's conception been a religion wedded to government and always will be so. Uncouple Islam from government and you end up with a toothless tiger. If you've read the Koran you know exactly what I am talking about.
It's my thinking that the statutes, precepts, and Ten Commandments don't actually wed the ancient government of Israel that firmly to the the religion. Moses gave his handwritten law to the people with blessings and curses attached. What I've read in the New Testament is that the curses were done away with. The laws concerning temple sacrifice were also done away with. The Temple was to no longer be central to Israel but rather a decentralized faith. If you don't have a temple, you don't have a high priest. With that structure of organization broken, then the tithe goes with it. The faith must rely only on free will offerings. Watch closely how pastors now ask for tithe. Then research how tithe was structured for Israel. The SDA church completely reverses how tithe was supposed to be organized. Tithe in Ancient Israel was bottom up. First to the local synagogues and then ten percent of that to the Temple in Jerusalem. SDA church takes ALL the tithe from the people directly and then doles it out to the pastors and churches. Fall afoul of doctrine and get fired. Only they make it seem really bad by calling it, "defrock". Seriously, how far from the Catholics are they?
Exactly. And this is how you can have people within a church who outwardly live very careful Christian lives but if you deal with them, they can destroy your reputation and cause damaged relationships with others in a church. It's only later after they've gained your trust that the backstabbing begins in earnest.
Wow. I didn't know about that. I remember on project supervisor I worked for (Really nice guy) got sucked into that and wanted me to go to that church with him. It was in Houston. You know, the one that flooded. Well, I listened to the guy online and listened to my supervisor and discovered huge holes in his "doctrine". My supervisor would whine about how his wife just didn't love him anymore after he cheated on her. She even started to cheat on him. Oh, but he thought God should fix all that for him and Osteen had him convinced God is gonna make it all better. Nope. I tried to tell him, if you've damaged your relationship, it's great neither one of you are cheating anymore but that doesn't mean the relationship is just supposed to come back overnight. You now have negative history. Anyway, Osteen convinced him there's no consequence for wrong doing and it's all gonna be fine. The man went back to cheating on his wife again. Thanks Joel, for nothing.
My personal experience with wrong doing and consequences: If you are guilty, the feeling is crushing. I've also been falsely charged for stuff and beating false accusers in court is liberating. Even understanding why people were coming after me to lie, just made me feel strong and bold. It's amazing Christ took our guilt and our punishment to himself. That's what salvation and the bible is really all about. We're born into sin, with a fallen nature from birth. The plan of salvation was to remove that negative birthright and restore the original innocence and more. A knowledge of right and wrong and a restored relationship. Only an animal can be truly innocent of sin because only an animal has no concept of right and wrong. Without that restoration, we can have an understanding of right and wrong, but no inclination to do the right thing beyond our own best short term interests.
Right. Talmud teaching. Talmud is interesting for understanding modern mainstream Judaism, but gee, it's loaded with stupid opinions and rationalizations to excuse asinine ideas and bad behavior. At the end of the day, Jews would do well to excise the garbage, keep what makes sense and then still consider it only man's opinion. If they can't do that, then the entire body of work needs to be trashed.
Ellen G. White was ruthless in stealing writings of others. "I was shown". scattered all through her writings. She basically stole the writings of others to cobble together her own doctrines kind of like how Scientology was formed.
I didn't choose Messianic Judaism, but rather, I just realized from talking with friends at the synogogue that they believed most closely with what I already understood and didn't mind having me share the results of my study with them. I would say, most protestant churches have adopted or adapted doctrines from the Catholic church and this includes the SDA church so I can't accept their teachings beyond in a more general way.
When I would discuss things with leaders from the local synogogue, there really was never conflict. No angry arguments and defense of the faith. Just the facts based on scriptures. I never even saw one pamphlet, church book on doctrines or anything like that at all. Anyone could go to the front of the congregation and share what he had read and what he thought about it. Try that at a Catholic church or JW or SDA. See how quick you get tossed out.
In addition, I find that of Mormons, SDA, and Jehovah's Witnesses all have one thing in common. Their founders were heavily involved with the Masons with the J.W's coming a bit later. Mormons get a bit worked up when I point this out, SDA believers also are a bit uncomfortable with this and will deny it. J.W's also will get upset and run off on you if you bring this up. It's not really their fault and especially not the fault of SDA members because from the start they are taught how bad the Catholic church is and how satanic Masons are.
25085932? ago
Thanks for your taking the time out to reply. Good stuff.
25087012? ago
You're welcome. Think about this, the very first believers were all Jewish. If I remember right, 5000 in a single day believed on the Messiah. Of course, when the movement reached the pagans, it was then that things gradually became corrupted with pagan customs. The worst was when the Romans converted from their pagan religions under order of their government. To pacify these early Christians the Romans sponsored churches, let them keep their statues and just changed the names under the statues. Romans were experts at pacification and propaganda.
25074297? ago
Torah. Written law.
25071074? ago
There are actually two Talmuds. Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds. Different sects of jews follow which ever one. But yeah your right. Everything they teach though and practice today was learned in BC time and passed down. Things have changed and been added/deleted but the main practices remain the same.
25070071? ago
800+ goy slaves for every Jew, they say.
25075130? ago
Yah, they argue over how many they each get on camera. Sick, Sick, people.
25071233? ago
Dang, where's mine?
25069130? ago
All jews are born evil. The further we get into this, the less of you there will be who emotionally deny it.
25069726? ago
Na, there are many Messianic jews who grew up Jewish and accepted Jesus later in life. It's a sick culture but it's like Mormonism, Amish, Jehova's Witnesses, etc. It's possible to wake up and reject it. It's not their DNA that's evil, it's their upbringings, teaching from the Talmud and Kabbalah, and other indoctrinations hidden deep in their beliefs. And when you learn that you're better than "goyim" all yoru life because of your blood, pride and ego takes over.
Like Jesus said, they aren't of their Father God because they are related to Abraham, they are of their father the Devil because of their spiritual mindset and condition.
25071227? ago
And to add to that I as a Christian have a better understanding of what Judaism is than they do.
Most practicing Jews do not read the psalms the most uplifting poetry of God ever written or to be written.
If we do this right many of the Jews are going to come around and think about how crushing that is going to be to those who do not?
We are going through the beginning of the end, Jesus was and is the Son of God, this World is going away and his kingdom is coming. 10,000 year reign Im thinking.
Time and space are slowing down, we are entering ground hog day until we awake to the power of Jesus Christ.
He comes back to get something good this is not it.
25071224? ago
Messianic Jewish here. Thanks for making the distinction.
25070635? ago
I agree. I've def known some decent ones. It's the leaven of the Pharisee that you have to watch out for, it's their doctrine and teachings.
25070300? ago
They all get the gas
25069979? ago
It’s 100% in their dna, the fact that you negate this is proof you are either a like in hiding or a shill.
25070055? ago
You sound like Tallest Skill or HeyGeorge. One of those polarity-thinking people here on Voat that have zero capability of analyzing the grey area. Always pushing your strict doctrines.
25069812? ago
Many are also under trauma based mind control due to being taught lies about the holocaust. When you learn from an early age that your family would have been a lot larger, but Uncle Bernie and Aunt Miralda were turned into lampshades after being put in a masturbation machine and roller coaster of death, it causes some fucked up trauma in kids.
25069679? ago
We are all born into sin. Jesus redeemed those who accept and obey Him.
25071027? ago
newage judeo-christian nonsense OP
in the book of Joshua, God commanded isrealites (white people) to kill every single canannite MAN WOMAN AND CHILD. The bible is not some willy nilly book for pussies who let people walk over them. We are warriors. The fact that our ancestors disobeyed the order and showed mercy via enslaving some of the canaanites is exactly what has led to our predicament in 2020.
You have much to learn.
Uncomfortable truths.
25070762? ago
Fake and gay.
Original Sin... Your god sucks! Find one that actually loves his people!
25070568? ago
You are so, so wrong....
25069817? ago
Yes, John 3:16
25069303? ago
And just think; when all the Jews are gone you will still have the Rothchilds and $040$'s and the rest of the "elite" still ruling the planet and you and yours will be totally eliminated. Praise the Lord!
25069384? ago
Rothschilds are jewish...how fucking worthless you adl/jidf people have become. Absolutely pathetic attempt.
25069705? ago
You just can't keep good shills these days.
Rothschild = Jew is Awakening 101 for Christ's sake.
(See what I did there?)
25069265? ago
Ezra Levant is a better man than most. You can tell by everything he does and says to fight tyranny while being squashed by it.
There are jewnicorns.
25069416? ago
Right. Gas him.
25069515? ago
Gas every shitskin first - you are up!
25069577? ago
Good one!
25069208? ago
and you are evil by choice?
25069402? ago
When it comes to dealing with jews, yes.
Actually a pretty nice guy outside of that. Now run along before I get a can of raid and gas you.
25069128? ago
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25068500? ago
Is there a relationship between Canaanite religion amd Babylon?
25071001? ago
The spirit of their religion that drove them was the same and it was never part of God,
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
25075336? ago
Jesus wasn't a jew. He was described by the Romans the same way that achilles was described, as a golden boy(blond hair, blue eyes). In fact, multiple times it is mentioned that he was a pure Hebrew, and not that he was Jewish. Jesus Christ hated jews, he believed them to be the spawn of satan. This is further confirmed through John. Jesus being Jewish is a Jewish made revision to the holy texts.
25073550? ago
The lights are on upstairs in this anon’s head. Not a word I don’t disagree with.
25072495? ago
I've always suspected that the devil targeted this group because it included Christ and so many of the prophets. Its obvious that his tentacles wrapped around aspects of Judaism, the Talmud for example.
25070679? ago
This is a nice presentation which touches on the topic: https://youtu.be/Lbdro2KNoZc
25070506? ago
Caananite religion basically was heavily influenced by the religions of southern Iraq.
25073562? ago
It originally hails from Tibet, anon.
The only place outside of Noah’s ark to remain dry.
25070584? ago
Think there is some relation to ancient Egyptian priesthood or pharao's as well
25074308? ago
To the antediluvian, worldwide, pyramid building, sun worshipping, human sacrificing culture, a small part of which we call Egypt, yes.
25076165? ago
Not so sure the worldwide pyramids were built by the cult, since they try and infiltrate and pervert everything, several obvious reasons are mocking human spirit, creativity and God... we still see it everyday.
An example is the planned parenthood building modeled after a Mayan pyramid, maybe it's true, although personally i haven't researched the topic enough, on the other hand we do know for sure that [they] pervert and censor history, to hide history, truth and righteousness...
25078391? ago
Follow the nazi “archaeologists”. They found aryans all over the world. They might also call present day North Korea a very “aryan” nation.
The “cult” you refer to came to our world through ancient Babylon and the Babylonian Captivity. Many call this cult the Babylonian Mystery Schools, after the way they presented as “schools” of “pondering the ancient mysteries” in the ancient world. The Babylonians learned it from the Sumerians, and that is where the trail starts to go cool.
However, a review of ancient and antediluvian Tibet is, uh, illuminating. The Himalayas were long recognized as the highest on earth. The Lamas had a widely known and fearful reputation for brutal human sacrifice. The original religion of Buddhism (the tale of Buddha, btw, is also the tale of Jesus) was written and strictly interpreted. The Lamas introduced Buddhist Talmudism to Buddhism! What was tantra? How was it practiced in Tibet? What were charnel fields? Could anyone practice tantra? Or only the most illuminated? Could it be called sex magick? What did Alistair Crowley and “Madame Blavatsky” write about Tibet? What is a shatkona?
25078535? ago
Great comment thx, did a quick check to see of i could find a good video on antedluvian Tibet but at first sight most vids are generic, got any good video link?
25070866? ago
Certainly
25069027? ago
So basically what you’re saying is it’s fine to be Jewish, the canaanites are the real baddies?
Good to see someone knows what’s up.
25069692? ago
Setting aside all the innovations and corruptions since the 1st century, being "Jewish" in the pure sense of claiming to follow only the Torah of Moses, the Prophets and Wisdom in what the rest of us call the Old Testament -- is at best tragically incomplete. At worst it's being stubbornly ignorant because that Old Testament to now stand on its own is an empty shell for anyone to try and faithfully live by.
The Prophets and the sacred writings literally have no value if (a) Messiah has not already come, and (b) if the temple and system of priestly sacrifice were swept away into history, they have no conclusion to what the prophets were pointing them to, and no means to commune with YHWH that is lawfully acceptable.
25070585? ago
Jews holy books are the talmud, Zohar and such. They laugh at the OT.
25070056? ago
It's "Yahweh". You can say his name. You don't have to be a jew about it.
25070601? ago
I doubt his name was "Yahweh"
25070669? ago
Yet the kikes are still afraid of the name
25070927? ago
Well Jesus real name was Yeshua and the tribe is named Yehuda.
25071128? ago
Yeshua is the english pronunciation of the hebrew name. Its incorrect as we do not have the correct hebrew spoken language. They have the written but they don't speak it correctly. So any pronunciation aside from Jesus unless is Jesus is another known language is incorrect. The NT was written in Greek and Aramaic.
25071278? ago
I know I can't pronounce it like they did. Just saying if the tribe is named yahuda and he's name yahshua then chances are His name isn't Yahweh. Pretty sure the karaites and the closest English spelling would be Yahua or Yahooa.
25070971? ago
k
25070490? ago
Let people do what they want. Mini hitler over here lol
25070605? ago
Now I, I say I resemble that remark.
25071306? ago
Ok foghorn leghorn.
25069375? ago
Jews went against god and fucked the cananites and Edomites and bread the Jews out of existence, you are all imposters and cursed
25069457? ago
Bro, you need Jesus.
25069163? ago
Nope. The jews descendants are the Canaanites, put simply. They are one and the same. Jews are acting like their descendants because DNA determines behavior.
25070522? ago
The Bible was written in a dialect of caananite.
25069241? ago
But the whole point of this post is they aren’t the same
You retards need to make up your minds.
25069958? ago
Found the jew.
25074385? ago
Shut the fuck up, tard
25088084? ago
Found another.
25070477? ago
Yeah but you just proved him right.
25069334? ago
Genetically, there is no such thing as a Jew... as they are just Cannanites.
However, the Khazarians chose Judaism as their official religion so they wouldn't have to pay tribute to either the Sultan or the Pope. They have zero genetic relationship to Canaanites.
The Khazarian Jews are fake jews, but control the Jewish apparatus via the Zionist movement. In fact, they are using Israel to exterminate the real genetic Jews, the Palestinians.
However, the center of power is the secret society that has nested itself in the leadership of the Zionists, the Wahabbists and the Jesuits. These are the occultists. "Occult" literally meaning "hidden." They are into hiding everything and using hidden knowledge. They use occult practices of many traditions and are always looking to amplify their "occult" powers. They derive their power specifically from their ability to hide and operate with hidden means.
25074376? ago
covers one eye
This ^ anon knows what he is talking about.
25070275? ago
Cannanites (Hamites) arent jews they are niggers.
25069468? ago
There’s no such thing?
Interesting.
25074140? ago
Not the person you were responding to, but here's a lengthy and worthwhile read on some history of 3 types of jews.
25075540? ago
Thanks for the info.
25077501? ago
You're welcome. Hope you find the info useful the way I did.
25078322? ago
I probably will...I just wanna know why people want to kill all of us because of the satanic ones. There are bad people in every religion but here people only act like its Jews. Pretty sure high level Catholics and muslims do fucked up shit too.
25070270? ago
Genetically speaking, of course.
Plenty of people practice a variety of Jewish beliefs. Semitic is not a race, it is a lingual reference.
25069399? ago
Amen