Enoch is mentioned in the bible in the following books: Hebrews 11:5, Genesis 5:21-5:24, Jude 1:14, 2Peter 2:4.
If the Book of Enoch is so "not God's word"..then why is Enoch and his writings mentioned in the Bible?
I read the book of Enoch thoroughly 7 years ago...it will scare the HELL out of any believer. It talks about how the world will end, and gives a timeline based in 1,000 year increments. THAT is the reason Enoch was pulled...because it shows a countdown, and talks about how all Evil doers will be dealt with Harshly and without mercy. If a person is not a believer, after reading the book of Enoch, they sure will be one.
Enoch was never removed; it was never a part of the Bible. The Bible was only canonized after Pentecost, when the Catholic Church's Magisterium was established, and therefore men finally had the guidance of the Spirit necessary to define a canon.
Only inerrant books actually inspired by God could be placed within the Bible. Enoch was not determined to be inspired and so was left out. That doesn't mean it is false; it just means it is not inerrant. The Church acknowledges the legitimacy of the book of Enoch and does not try to hide its existence; it even encourages the reading of it. It just teaches that not every word within it should be treated as inerrant; it is history, plain and simple. Worth knowing, but not the Word of God.
There is no contradiction between the two. For one, the epistle of Jude is not canonical either; and secondly, the prophecy can be true and worth quoting without the entire book of Enoch being inerrant and therefore worthy of canon.
the book of Jude is not canonical? pardon me? it's in every bible so yes it is. Why is Jude quoting a heretical book and why are we by default saying it has this one true prophecy while the rest is wrong? That's not a logical path to take.
*And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.* - Jude 14,15
*And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him.* - 1 Enoch 1:9
the book of Jude is not canonical? pardon me? it's in every bible so yes it is.
Sorry, you're right, was thinking of something else.
Why is Jude quoting a heretical book and why are we by default saying it has this one true prophecy while the rest is wrong? That's not a logical path to take.
I never said the Book of Enoch is heretical. I just said it isn't canonical. I admitted that it contains truth, but denied that it is inerrant. That's all.
ok, that's a fair discussion. but i have to ask, why would we logically not take the historical and prophetic book Jude quoted as being equally inspired and brought forth by God as Jude's own writings? There are some VERY compelling prophecies of Jesus' coming in 1 Enoch. They are the first ever written prophecies about Jesus. The enemy has more than just his own deeds in that book to hide..so it's not so surprising if it was, in fact, excluded intentionally.
I don't know. I'm not the Church fathers, I don't have access to the Magisterium. Thinking that a book could be denied canonical status for some political purpose only removes the legitimacy of the rest of the Biblical canon, for either the Magisterium (the Holy Spirit) is qualified to establish canon or it is not. It may have been as simple as a single historically inaccurate line, I can only speculate. It is certainly a book that should be read, but for whatever reason, the Holy Spirit did not want to put it on equal footing with the inspired Word of God.
The Holy Spirit does not force people to do His will. We have to simply assume that the men involved were willing to do His Will. There are some translations of the bible (NIV for example) that uses vastly different words,sometimes leading to vastly different meanings than the KJV. This is one example of some human willfully changing God's message.
The difference is that corrupt translations are not the work of the Holy Spirit, whereas the work of the Magisterium is.
The books of Scripture were inspired by God from the moment they were written. It is through the Magisterium of the Church that God imparts the wisdom as to which of these books are inspired to men. So the Magisterium is the guidance of the Spirit, not the forcing of anyone's will. This guidance is completely absent from corrupt translations so it is not an apt analogy.
God provided no mediator between man and Himself other than Jesus and His Holy Spirit. There are no hallowed group of men who can speak for Him but we all receive the truth when we seek it from His Spirit. The Holy Spirit confirms the same message contained in 1 Enoch that we also see in Genesis, the Gospels, Hebrews and Revelation. That validates it for me.
So what was Pentecost if the Spirit cannot come down especially into certain people more than others? The Magisterium is just the continuation of Pentecost within the Church that Christ founded. And you may decide Enoch is canon, and someone else may disagree. Who is right? Both? Impossible. How do you know which is right, since we are dealing with metaphysical matters that cannot necessarily be proven? Are we supposed to guess? Or did Christ supply us with a Church meant to fulfil this purpose? Obviously He left us a Church, a Church he tasked with "looking after His sheep", and a part of this involves establishing canon and uniformity of belief.
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20596516? ago
Enoch is mentioned in the bible in the following books: Hebrews 11:5, Genesis 5:21-5:24, Jude 1:14, 2Peter 2:4.
If the Book of Enoch is so "not God's word"..then why is Enoch and his writings mentioned in the Bible?
I read the book of Enoch thoroughly 7 years ago...it will scare the HELL out of any believer. It talks about how the world will end, and gives a timeline based in 1,000 year increments. THAT is the reason Enoch was pulled...because it shows a countdown, and talks about how all Evil doers will be dealt with Harshly and without mercy. If a person is not a believer, after reading the book of Enoch, they sure will be one.
20596905? ago
Enoch was never removed; it was never a part of the Bible. The Bible was only canonized after Pentecost, when the Catholic Church's Magisterium was established, and therefore men finally had the guidance of the Spirit necessary to define a canon.
Only inerrant books actually inspired by God could be placed within the Bible. Enoch was not determined to be inspired and so was left out. That doesn't mean it is false; it just means it is not inerrant. The Church acknowledges the legitimacy of the book of Enoch and does not try to hide its existence; it even encourages the reading of it. It just teaches that not every word within it should be treated as inerrant; it is history, plain and simple. Worth knowing, but not the Word of God.
20599989? ago
Jude quoted it as prophecy. i kind of trust Jude more than the Nicene council.
20601254? ago
There is no contradiction between the two. For one, the epistle of Jude is not canonical either; and secondly, the prophecy can be true and worth quoting without the entire book of Enoch being inerrant and therefore worthy of canon.
20604720? ago
the book of Jude is not canonical? pardon me? it's in every bible so yes it is. Why is Jude quoting a heretical book and why are we by default saying it has this one true prophecy while the rest is wrong? That's not a logical path to take.
*And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.* - Jude 14,15
*And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him.* - 1 Enoch 1:9
20606472? ago
Sorry, you're right, was thinking of something else.
I never said the Book of Enoch is heretical. I just said it isn't canonical. I admitted that it contains truth, but denied that it is inerrant. That's all.
20607846? ago
ok, that's a fair discussion. but i have to ask, why would we logically not take the historical and prophetic book Jude quoted as being equally inspired and brought forth by God as Jude's own writings? There are some VERY compelling prophecies of Jesus' coming in 1 Enoch. They are the first ever written prophecies about Jesus. The enemy has more than just his own deeds in that book to hide..so it's not so surprising if it was, in fact, excluded intentionally.
20608146? ago
I don't know. I'm not the Church fathers, I don't have access to the Magisterium. Thinking that a book could be denied canonical status for some political purpose only removes the legitimacy of the rest of the Biblical canon, for either the Magisterium (the Holy Spirit) is qualified to establish canon or it is not. It may have been as simple as a single historically inaccurate line, I can only speculate. It is certainly a book that should be read, but for whatever reason, the Holy Spirit did not want to put it on equal footing with the inspired Word of God.
20608258? ago
The Holy Spirit does not force people to do His will. We have to simply assume that the men involved were willing to do His Will. There are some translations of the bible (NIV for example) that uses vastly different words,sometimes leading to vastly different meanings than the KJV. This is one example of some human willfully changing God's message.
20609143? ago
The difference is that corrupt translations are not the work of the Holy Spirit, whereas the work of the Magisterium is.
The books of Scripture were inspired by God from the moment they were written. It is through the Magisterium of the Church that God imparts the wisdom as to which of these books are inspired to men. So the Magisterium is the guidance of the Spirit, not the forcing of anyone's will. This guidance is completely absent from corrupt translations so it is not an apt analogy.
20609257? ago
God provided no mediator between man and Himself other than Jesus and His Holy Spirit. There are no hallowed group of men who can speak for Him but we all receive the truth when we seek it from His Spirit. The Holy Spirit confirms the same message contained in 1 Enoch that we also see in Genesis, the Gospels, Hebrews and Revelation. That validates it for me.
20609342? ago
So what was Pentecost if the Spirit cannot come down especially into certain people more than others? The Magisterium is just the continuation of Pentecost within the Church that Christ founded. And you may decide Enoch is canon, and someone else may disagree. Who is right? Both? Impossible. How do you know which is right, since we are dealing with metaphysical matters that cannot necessarily be proven? Are we supposed to guess? Or did Christ supply us with a Church meant to fulfil this purpose? Obviously He left us a Church, a Church he tasked with "looking after His sheep", and a part of this involves establishing canon and uniformity of belief.