If you haven't heard of it /v/disagreebutton is not a brigading sub that downvotes comments, but upvotes those that got downvoted for dissenting (not for having a poor quality). If a post doesn't adhere to what the sub it is posted in considers a quality post, then it would be ignored or if it's shitty downvoted. Quality being not a matter of how eloquent you are: you can't post an essay about quantum mechanics in /v/funny and then post it in /v/disagreebutton expecting it to be restored. We didn't have an agenda, it was apolitical and everyone could decide how to vote on a post for themselves. You took a risk by posting there: because if you did and quality was lacking, then it would be downvoted. The argument has been made that I am hypocritical because I allegedly was against brigading while having a brigading sub, despite having never said I am against brigading. I am instead deeply against stupid and uninformed conversation and the sub literally stimulated the contrary by giving support (upvotes) to it.
Once upon a time (one month ago) /v/disagreebutton was a wildy popular idea. Back then, people coming from Reddit were sick of the echochambers, hiveminds and toxicity that came with 'punishing' dissenting views and were thinking of ways to prevent this and instead promote intelligent, friendly and informative discussion. The notion of not downvoting because you disagree was deeply rooted in the culture of Voat at that time, but since the last large influx of users from Reddit, it has been accused of being a SJW-sub in order to create 'safe-spaces'. Some have connected it to AskVoat now having a minimum requirement of CCP in order to downvote, despite it being very obvious it was due to every post from innocent users who just want to post and discuss questions was being brigaded and downvoted harshly (in order to sink activity and get people to go to /v/AskGoat). I went from being respected: https://archive.is/uKpZi, to losing legitimacy because of this accusation. People didn't realize I can both disagree with her actions as a mod and with every comment of her, despite being perfectly fine, being downvoted for that. People supported me to the extent I contributed to the effort of /u/she being burned at the stake (and also because I disagreed with and changed the sidebar rules and actively engaged with the community), wherein a lot abandoned camp reason and didn't care for each action being evaluated and analyzed on its own. They instead desperately tried to connect things and imagine ghosts behind things to fit their own narrative: they became delusional SJW's (People with paper thin skin who always find something to be offended about, especially if that thing only exists and is created by their own delusion) in the attempt to fight SJW's.
It's also annoying to see the denial of the current users that the abuse of the downvote button to silence dissent isn't or couldn't be a problem, that it is a SJW sub and like /v/disagreebutton can't solve that problem. If the majority likes to be naïve in thinking Voaters wont abuse the downvote button and that we are better than Redditors, then I said I would delete it.
I have not put disagreebutton on lockdown because those opposing it are right, but because I am what in ethics is called a consequentialist, meaning that I judge how good something is through the effects that it has. The effects are clearly detrimental to the point harming the /v/AskVoat community, which I am tasked to stimulate. Also, while about 10-15 people were active there prior to weeks ago in agreement with the sub some of these users have left Voat because they felt unable to turn it into to place for intelligent and informative discussion because of many more people limited to thinking in moral absolutes becoming active on the sub to further downvote things. Until /v/protectvoat was notified of the thread on /u/she, only me and TheToucan were active on it.
Honestly I am losing more faith by the day and perhaps am already in denial about how drained Voat is in stupidity because of SJW anti-SJW's. If you guys don't stop being fucking retards and don't going into mob mentality everytime a sliver of incomplete information that fits your narrative is given to you, then i'll eventually quit with Voat alltogether.
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heili ago
You turned it political when you tried to use it as an army in the shebacle.
Then what are you against? If you don't oppose brigading, what's your specific issue with down vote brigading and why doesn't supporting up vote brigading make you a hypocrite?
The down vote button gives ordinary users the ability to determine that a particular comment, submission or even user is not a positive contribution to the site and express it.
You want to convince me that what you're doing is right instead of just right-intentioned? You can start by not automatically and preemptively labeling people who disagree with you as idiots and 'fucking retards', and by acknowledging that forming a mob to go and upvote one individual is still forming a mob.
Stoic ago
So a doctor treating someone becomes political when he treats a patient that is a politician? Now, he just treats the injuries. the sub upvotes all comments if they have quality and got downvoted for dissenting.
I am against stupidity
you are delusional if you think people don't use the downvote button to silence dissent and stifle debate.
Assuming a utilitarian position and assuming that the promotion of open and intelligent discussion are good things, then supporting those things through upvotes is good. I get that you and many other people are limited to thinking in moral absolutes and know jack-shit about philosophy or ethics, which is why are you morons. I never said I am against brigading and it isn't a mob.
heili ago
You can't talk to me without calling me both delusional and a moron.
Why should I expend any effort in having a conversation with you?
Stoic ago
I am on the verge of leaving the site to whatever site isn't populated so heavily by stupid people. So I dont really care anymore. You don't have to argue with me if you got your feelings hurt from me calling you a moron, that's up to you.
Crensch ago
I would recommend not drinking the Kool-aid early on that site like you did this one. If you do, the stupid people seem reasonable and the reasonable people seem stupid.
You've been fighting a losing battle since the beginning because your position was untenable. You defend the unworthy, and claim to hate one side of a coin while not having a good reason for proselytizing for the other side of the coin.
Yeah, if I were fighting a losing battle, and didn't have the cods to admit I was completely wrong, I'd feel the same way.
When people are right, they have the right to such exhasperated rhetoric. When they're wrong, they're just showing how unqualified they are to weigh in on the subject.
You're the latter.
Stoic ago
So if I disagree with multiple things She does, I have to be against everything she does? Where did I support her wrong actions?
This sub wanted me to become head mod: https://archive.is/uKpZi.
Care to create an argument I can attack other than saying I am wrong?
lasercow ago
ya there was 1 moment in time when people started to hero worship you for changing rule 1....
people wised up to your bullshit quickly. even Atko has said he has 0 confidence in SHE and the community clearly believed the same.....however you guys decided to play victim, and seem to have managed to effect the conversation.
You dont re earn the kind of trust that has been lost. just give up and leave the sub....get a new usernname, and go hide from your memories
Stoic ago
So you are admitting you don't even know what happened, you uninformed delusional idiot.
lasercow ago
I was there in that thread at that time.....thats what people were going on about....excuse me for not providing the proper situational details and context to convince you that I am a worthy conversation partner. you clearly have no respect for any of us and you are in real danger of creating something horrid with your disagreebutton bullshit.
I can only hope Atko will do something about what you and SHE are upto before you recreate SRS
Crensch ago
You still supported her being a mod after witnessing her abusing her mod powers. How, exactly, is this not obvious to you?
So? Is that supposed to lend some kind of credibility or authority to your words? Is that supposed to excuse your complete lack of qualifications to even post on this matter?
I'm actually appalled by the fact that you moderate anything when your ability to support your position is so insanely infantile.
If you'd stop being wrong for one fucking minute, I wouldn't have to keep explaining to you how and why.
Stoic ago
No I didn't. Again, care to make an argument sometime?
Crensch ago
Where you attempted to keep a subverse under the abusive mod's control from staging its own protest of her.
Where you linked to a complete revisionist-history post by a she supporter.
Where you whine about someone that uses downvotes differently than you do, which, of course, probably means that they downvoated she.
Edit:
You are a terrible fucking human being.
Stoic ago
I did it to prevent the community from being brigaded... How are we debating this? You can easily check dozens of posts before the announcement and find a strong anomaly in the amount of downvotes each post got compared to prior weeks. Creating the limit wasn't founded in an assumption, but in obvious evidence. You can go and literally check it right now... We will likely even be removing the cap soon at which point it will either get brigaded again which would legitimize putting the cap back up, or it wont happen again and we'll don't put the limit back in place.
So if I disagree with multiple things She does, I have to be against everything she does? Where did I support her wrong actions? I literally attacked her on a lot of her actions. The only point I defended her on was her every comment getting -20 votes despite being perfectly fine. This sub wanted me to become head mod: https://archive.is/uKpZi. Do you even know what has happened? Or are you so swept up in the deluded mob mentality that you don't even know what is going on?
No I didn't imply that.
I got 6-1 upvotes on that comment and gator 5-4, despite the limits for downvoting being in place. Having such a high ratio means that what I said in that comment, yes.
You are too unintelligent to continue debating with. You are a lost cause and I am terminating this discussion. Enjoy dying in mediocrity never knowing how stupid you were.
Edit: Mediocrisy --> mediocrity, but english isn't my first language, so it doesn't count ;).
RedSocks157 ago
Holy shit dude, get the hell out of here. You should be fucking embarrassed by your conduct, words, and actions. Look at yourself. You are desperately clinging to power on an Internet forum the has made it abundantly clear that it doesn't want you, the other moderators of askvoat, or your rules. This is not the behavior of adults; you are acting like children playing a game and simply screaming petty insults at the other children while making up rules as you go along. For yourselve and the rest of voat, can the askvoat moderators PLEASE step down and allow this drama to finally come to a close.
lasercow ago
you should have embraced the brigading and helped us shut down the sub until she resigned.
we expected solidarity, we got betrayal, we are not going to forgive you
Crensch ago
You presume brigading from an outside source instead of a protest of your users? Proof?
This is how you respond to a community in uproar? To blame the 'terrists' ?
Evidence for what, exactly?
Right, because you were justified the first time...
Every thing you've done has helped her, and harmed others.
Really? You get to be the judge and jury about what constitutes a contribution to the conversation? Or is it that you get to be the judge and jury about what people do with the functionality given to them?
The hypocrisy is face-melting. She misuses the functionality given to her, so others use the functionality given to them to protest her... and then you step in.
What does this have to do with anything? I don't have a leader. I don't even like some of the most vocal people in this sub. Electrowhatever doesn't have my support at all. Again, what makes you think this is even worth mentioning?
More than you, since you managed to link to revisionist history, and presume some kind of outside attack when it's probably the users of that subverse that were protesting.
Do you know what has happened?
How can I be mob mentality when I rarely agree with the other people against she? How, exactly, does that work? Didn't you just get through saying that some people asked you to mod this sub?
What kind of fucked up logic is that?
That's how everyone who's paying attention took it, and that's the only person benefiting from it.
This doesn't even make any sense. Try again?
If you really mean that, you're not really qualified to continue speaking to me, so that's perfectly fine.
Hey, at least I don't prop up revisionist history and make unilateral changes that benefit the abusive mod and literally nobody else.
Edit:
@stoic asks for arguments instead of me just poking holes in his bullshit. Arguments provided. Response:
"I'm too smart for you"
Hilarious.
HowAboutShutUp ago
Then why did you guys break off all discussion after she got ownership of the sub? Why did you refuse to address my question of "will the mods publicly commit to behaving in a fair manner"? Why did you (the mod team) 1) say "no sticky meta posts," 2) make me move my topic to ModsOfAskVoat, 3) let the original post that had gained some traction fall by the wayside, and then 3) de-sticky the ModsOfAskVoat post, while 4) simutaneously putting a bunch of sticky meta posts on AskVoat?
Do you not understand how this looks to a person who is on the fence about the situation? I'm not part of the downvote brigade that made you throw all the normal, casual, low-ccp users under the bus. I have made a concerted effort to make my concerns clear without crying for fire and blood, and you guys have completely abandoned any semblance of an attempt to meet users like me half way. What am I supposed to think after that?
Edit: And also, would you mind justifying why painting everyone posting here with such a broad brush is a fair or reasonable thing to do? I keep seeing you claim you're trying to do the right thing or you understand philosophy and right morals or whatever, and while I'm not convinced going by the way you've responded to some people here, I believe you do believe that. So: Would you mind explaining to me how hurling insults is the "right thing" ?
HowAboutShutUp ago
@Stoic again, I would like an answer, or are you going to continue to find low hanging fruit to insult instead?
Seriously. Read what you are saying to other human beings. What the hell is wrong with you?
Obligatory snark if you're going to call people stupid: Mediocrity
Stoic ago
English isn't my first language, but to your above comment
I got about 100 messages the last two days, where is it?
I have no clue what you are talking about.
On the edit:
I'm going to lower my activity here drastically because of all this. I thought I could turn things around and put Voat up on the track towards stimulating intelligent and informative debate again, but the mass of idiocy simply has become too large. I think I have gotten about 40-60 messages now from idiots all using the most delusional and retarded arguments. It's also been way too long since I have seen a really well-written analysis grounded in philosophy or whatever on this site--too many reasonable people have already left and are currently leaving the site. Might as well call it like it is and vent a bit.
lasercow ago
the problem is you and SHE and mods who think their control is more important that the communities they are destroying....
HowAboutShutUp ago
Originally it was posted here, after your comment in that thread: https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/comments/421215/1868884
Regarding the second part,
To me that course of events seems highly suspect, so even if I want to believe in the mods, why am I supposed to when I'm not being given a reason to do so? I genuinely believe it didn't have to get this bad, so even if downvoters and people angry at She are partly responsible, why did the mods not take any opportunity available to try to reduce the chances of it turning into this nightmare?
Stoic ago
I didn't know about any of that and I have been against the removal of any meta-posts these past few days. Not sure why you are complaining to me about this? Again, read this thread: https://archive.is/uKpZi. All the shit I am getting now is because of delusional mob mentality after they 'discovered' the conspiracy of me defending she by wanting to restore her comments that got downvoted to -20 despite them being for example about tea or something very standard. Everything outside of disagreebutton is what we'll agree on.
Again:
I literally took every opportunity available, I even leaked shit. Wtf do you want me to do?
HowAboutShutUp ago
I appreciate that, and mainly it's because you're the only moderator from AskVoat who has any kind of public visibility right now from what I can see. There's basically nobody else to ask if someone wants access to the AskVoat mod team.
Mainly because on the day of the change in ownership, you responded to the question "will the team commit publicly to doing an upright job" with an answer that amounted to "no comment," and didn't answer a follow-up question in which you were asked to elaborate. If it wasn't your intent I apologize for taking it that way, but surely you must understand how a person who is already concerned about what's going on might interpret that course of events.
Stoic ago
I answered it there, but after having taken everything into consideration again I was again hit by the realization how delusional, uninformed and retarded so many on this sub are. I am hereby doubling down on that hyperbolic statement.
HowAboutShutUp ago
Look, you're probably pretty justified in feeling that way, I can't dispute you there. However, I do hope you'll take some time to reconsider the discourse, even if you don't reconsider how you feel about some of the users. Hostility in response to hostility is fruitless and accomplishes nothing but more hostility in return.