In this study, you can see that human resource management has spent a great deal of time learning how to create and prevent splitting in human groups in order to keep groups cohesive or break them apart, as needed.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321982018_Organizing_the_HRM_function_Responses_to_paradoxes_variety_and_dynamism
In fact, the Robber's Cave experiment is a perfect example of how the basic ideas behind this are very, very easy to implement. It was framed as "realistic conflict theory."
https://www.simplypsychology.org/robbers-cave.html
An even more basic way to understand this is to see how a monkey reacts to the injustice of being paid differently for doing the same task. His outrage is palpable. This little monkey should inform you as to how easy it is to manipulate people using outrage. Don't be that little monkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg
Almost two months ago, I started getting PMs that were seemingly designed to create the idea that there were people against me. In particular, @Vindicator and @Crensch were named as people who were not big fans of mine and the idea was introduced that they wanted me banned. I'm leary of naming too many names, but @think- admitted to being one of these people.
Ever cautious, my response was a post on how to counteract David Brock shills. I basically tried to dumb down what I use to combat shills and gave instructions on how drown them out on Reddit.
I made a long post on 4chan, which @think- then suggested I share on /v/Pizzagate, with the understanding that we would work together on making conform to the rules of /v/Pizzagate, because it was originally made for 4chan. After I worked to correct the post, @Vindicator referred to me as acting like a David Brock shill, a sleeper shill, etc where I was trying to "baffle people with bullshit." I informed @Vindicator that I had a couple of people (my cousin, a computer science professor, and another family member, a lawyer) watching how all of this was about to go down. This was my cousin's idea, because he had just made it so the logs worked on my site and I had explained that we could expect a serious shill response. The legal ramifications of shills is an interesting one because you can potentially sue them and make money.
One of the first people who came to my site from the thread I posted used the address bar to search for George Tenet within my site. They did it wrong. Then, another computer logged in and did a slightly correct way of searching for George Tenet on my site.
The second probe was run using a computer on a CACI network with the login name "abramah." Naturally, I ran the name through the database I have of email and password combinations. You can find this, yourself, at haveibeenpwned.com, but I downloaded the whole database, so I could access both username and their corresponding passwords. This is what came back:
[email protected] goatblower
QinetiQ was contracted by CACI, the Defense Intelligence Agency contractor, to run unspecified Internet operations and founded QNAO (QinetiQ North American Operations). George Tenet was on their board. It seems one of his employees was searching for him and they are, most likely, a Voat shill, since they came from Voat within moments of my thread being posted and also chose the password "goatblower."
George Tenet now runs Allen & Co, which is the top of the media pyramid for FOX, Disney, Sports, Video Games, Health Insurance comapnies, etc. It is a "Proprietary" as managed by a Proprietary Management Group within the Deep State.
As soon as I started to expose the CACI logs and posted in /v/ProtectVoat, Voat had "technical issues" and puttitout made a sticky saying he was working on it and that was the moment @srayzie & Co all decided they hated me. Rather than try to have a conversation about it in a rational manner, they insisted on being insulting harassing and constantly pinging each other to downvote me... the exact stuff they have been doing to a lot of people.
Their job has been to destroy the Pizzagate movement by aligning it with Q, then waiting for the Q movement to be discredited. They run /v/Pizzagate as a limited hangout and everyone who has tried to politely reason with them gets insults and little brigades from the same exact group of people. If you don't post in exactly the manner they want, they invite you to post in a subverse that gets little to no attention. They make no effort, whatsoever, to promote the known facts onto other platforms and liberal strongholds.
In fact, they spend an inordinate amount of time "reverse concern trolling" by falsely identifying shills, then trying to convince everyone to brigade them which is a core aspect of creating "tension" and implementing "tension based strategies." They are trying to make outraged monkeys out of everyone.
In my opinion, they could start to prove they aren't shills by merely starting with taking a break from the Internet. They could blanket ban themselves from wasting their time insulting people and just use the normal functions to deal with shills sans all the outraged monkeys. The reason they act like this is because they are either immature to the extreme or because they are doing all of this on purpose.
When people repeatedly double down on dishonesty, they are proving my point.
Just recently, @Vindicator said that I accused him of DDoS'iong my site, which is a gross misrepresentation of what I said happened. Give that he has called me a shill and made a number of other untruthful statements means that he is double down on his dishonesty for a reason. When I first presented some of my findings in /v/PizzagateWhatever, he deleted it. I left all of their hateful words untouched in my own ignored subverse.
What is the best way to protect voat? It is to stop engaging in the different types of concern trolling and stay out of the drama. Personally, I think these people deserve a permanent ban because it is my opinion that this paradigm is a well established, well documented shill paradigm that they repeatedly adhere to. Doxxing is being selectively used as a tool of outrage, when, in fact, I've doxxed more people than I can count on Voat, including Rothschilds, NXIVM, Knesset members, FBI Agents and a lot more. Notice nobody ever complained about that. In fact, @Vindicator even seemed to like it when I handed out the emails to the lead Pizzagate investigators at the FBI.
/v/Pizzagate has had a reverse concern troll stickied for 5 months on @EsotericShade. Whether or not their accusations are true, does one problem person warrant a lot of drama laden exclamation marks and insulting circle jerk to represent the Pizzagate movement? No. It is more "Outrage Inc." For a group of people who hate when someone adds a few votes here and there, they are the prime abusers of ganging up on people and downvoting them into oblivion. They act exactly like TMOR and SRS. They are cancer. It would be best for Voat if these people were not in charge.
I absolutely invite polite discussion on any of these topics. Just know that nobody has been able to address it without the little TMOR insult downvote brigade. When it came to trying to convince this little group of anything, I gave up. However, it is clearly a large overarching problem all across Voat that a handful of people are responsible for and finally, everyone seems ready to listen. These aren't good people.
Subtract the things you do or do not agree with them on... politics, morality, whatever. Then just look at the behavior. They won. Outrage and insults won. Just in time for the OIG report, too.
view the rest of the comments →
SandHog ago
I like how you didn't bother to include any of the many threads you made regarding this so I did it for you. I'm probably missing one or two threads because when you started this stuff the first time you made a bunch of them all over the place all around the same time which made it difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to follow what was going on.
You also appear to have taken some bad advice from someone you shouldn't have. I asked you about that, remember? I defended you when all of this started. I waited to see your evidence and the evidence you presented did not support your claim.
Not to mention that before you had even gathered your evidence you ran around on reddit, 4chan and probably other places saying that v/pizzagate was compromised. This was before you had even arrived at any conclusions. Those are not the actions of and honest person. And here you are again. I don't know what your obsession with the v/pizzagate sub is but it's clear that you are trying to get the mods tossed out for no good reason. If you want your own pizzagate sub then fucking make one. You can link to all the archived stuff to your hearts content but it is clear to me that your purpose here is to depose the moderators of v/pizzagate.
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3126226
https://voat.co/v/thewebofslime/3125824
https://voat.co/v/ProtectVoat/3128558
https://voat.co/v/realProtectVoat/3128339
https://voat.co/v/thewebofslime/3125835
@kevdude
thewebofslime ago
I am focusing on the behavior of the mods in question which is, obviously, exposed to a lot of people, at this point. I didn't post a bunch of links because I am not in the position to focus for more than a few minutes at a time, in my current situation.
If you want a detailed explanation of the technical details, I can work on that, but it isn't really the point. The point is the psychological cycle is clear.
/v/Pizzagate operates as a limited hangout and it is dying. It's momentum is dying. Look at the numbers. That is a fact. Whether by design or ineptitude, /v/Pizzagate is compromised. Full stop.
I know what is going on and I attempted to have a rational conversation about it just before I had a family member shot in combat. I'm sorry if that interferes with everyone's drama, but I see no reason to participate when I read that this happens to users at /v/Pizzagate all the time and it has been continuing for two years. It is out of hand and.. as I've said elsewhere... If you make an enemy everyday, then, one day, all you will have are enemies. That is what the mods were doing.
You asked if I would show you my PMs and I declined. @think- admitted to it, anyways, so what more proof do you need? An admission is good enough for a court of law.
Presenting evidence and asking questions is how people come to conclusions. That is the whole point of posting things on the Internet... to acquire different points of view.
False. I just want the mods to stop harassing users and start harassing pedophiles and stop attacking people and being constant concern trolls. When I came back after being gone for a bit, they had all practically self-destructed. How is that my fault? I have stated many times that I would like to see /v/Pizzagate focus less on reverse concern trolling and more on getting good information out into the world.
The truth is that, after all of this drama, people are readily able to see what they've been doing; playing the victim card, pinging everyone to downvote who and what they don't like, making a constant stream of insults and doing it all day in such a way that it is mind boggling that they would not be shills.
No. This was when my lawyer and my cousin were telling me not to say a word about anything so that we could understand the legal ramifications, first. This was a way to smoke out any of the other people who were sending me PMs to see who would stick to their original words and who would be liars. Ironically, @think- is the only one who was honest, but he follows the herd in the pinging, downvoting and insulting.
@Vindicator lied repeatedly. He lied and said I was acting like a David Brock shill. He lied and said I was a sleeper shill. He lied and said I accused him of DDoS'ing me today. So now what? Who do you believe? Someone who is factually lying? Or me who is just stating the obvious about the behavior? The people who are doing exactly what I described in this post? Or me who hasn't posted anything but a little guitar playing and has laid off politics almost completely?
The question is why are these people acting like this and how have they gone for so long without realizing that it is counterproductive?
The answer is simple. They are hopelessly immature or they are doing it on purpose. Given recent circumstances, I'd say the latter.
Let me ask you:
Do you think it is productive for a group of mods to spend all day making accusations, insults and downvote brigading?
Do you think the moderators would have been better off if they hadn't spent the last two years doing that and, instead, focused on getting the message out?
Will you include the thread I made about how to counteract David Brock in your post? Because that is where this all started, for me.
If mods can't change their behavior, then I see no reason they should be around. My preference, which I've stated many times, is that they focus their efforts on helping the community gain momentum outside of Voat. Instead, you have a dying /v/Pizzagate sub and a /v/GreatAwakening sub that no one finds credible, anymore, except for the core members.
I am calling out the behavior.
If any of you sincerely wanted to know the truth about who was doing dirt, at least one of you would have taken my suggestion and downloaded the databases with everyone's doxx to know the truth. Notice how nobody has done that. Notice how nobody has even bothered to verify what I am saying.
I have explained dozens of times that I just want the witch hunts to end. That is all. I didn't like before I was the recipient. I didn't like it when I was the recipient. And, now, you have a real world example of what that idiot behavior results in.
So go ahead... defend the behavior. Assign a fake agenda to me. Watch me disappear from Voat again, tomorrow, and try to figure out what I am doing, exactly, that is going to get anyone deposed. They are already doing a fine job, themselves. Do you disagree? What more can I do that they haven't already done?
My call to action is to stop the witch hunts. Does that make me a bad guy?
I just want to pump out the truth to counteract the media machine. Does that make me a bad guy? Why do I deserve to be doxxed, attacked, insulted, harassed with gay porn in my inbox? It's okay when it happens to me, but don't dare touch the instigator, right? And what do I do when it happens to me? I make the smart choice.
Imagine the irony of you acting like I posted this everywhere like a chicken with its head cut off, when that is exactly what the problem mods are doing with all the drama? Your double standard is curious and you should reflect on it.
Fuck me for defending myself, right?
SandHog ago
I think it's dying due to lack of interest and people participating. There are only a small number of users that go there these days. People get burnt out on that stuff. I know I did and stepped away recently. It's not something that you can submerge yourself in constantly. Or at least I can't.
Fair enough. You have to consider what it looked like to everyone when you did what you did. I don't think you have any idea of how hard they have been fucked with. I think that they would agree with you on getting good info out.
The way you responded threw up a lot of red flags. Making all those different threads in short succession in many different places at once and then asking how best to go about identifying someone who was modding v/pizzagate is gonna raise a whole hell of a lot of suspicion. And it did. As for the DDOS that was what think- called it in one of the threads and that is an easy term to remember even though it is inaccurate. The thing is that you are seeing his behavior in response to your behavior and coming to the same conclusion he did. It's the same thing.
As I said earlier they have been doing it for a long time and have had to deal with all kinds of crazy shit. The main sticking point that started all of that, at least to my knowledge, was your post did not meet the submission requirements. The reason for the submission requirements was in response to people shitting up the place with low-effort posts or just fake stuff. think- can probably explain the reasons for all the rules and why they were put in place better than I can. I wasn't around for a lot of it other than real early on.
Possibly, although v/pizzagate is a research oriented sub on a small website most people never heard of so the breakdown has always been researchers relying on other people to spread the info mostly from what I have seen.
Yeah, I think it's in there already.
Behavior is in response to stimuli. Again, I don't think you fully understand what they have been dealing with. I also don't think you understand what is currently unfolding on Voat.
Can you blame anyone though? You started trying to identify people or at least locations based on all those hacked emails and passwords in order to root out 'comped mods'. Did you consider that it might seem like you had more nefarious motives and maybe people might not be so trustful after that?
I'm not assigning any agenda to you. I'm just telling you what happened and why. All you had to do was modify the post like they asked you to and that think- tried to assist you with and none of this would have happened. And, again, I think you are misreading the situation. At least we are discussing it though, which is good.
Not at all. I never really thought you were a bad guy. I thought you were a frustrating guy because you wouldn't listen to what we were trying to tell you. When you went to reddit and other places posting how pizzagate might be comped even before anything had been worked out that looked extremely suspect to me. Why would you do that? Surely you can see how suspect that looked.
I don't think anyone deserves those things. I didn't even know those things happened. I'm assuming you think Vindicator did it or one of us? I didn't do it and I really don't think that any of the others did either. Someone might have done it just to stir the pot. I have no idea about any of that.
Except you did do that. You made like 3 or 4 threads all in a short period of time which not only was a stumbling block to solving anything it also appeared you were doing it in an effort to stir up a witch hunt. And you still don't understand anything about the current situation so are making a false equivalency. Show me where I ran around made a bunch of posts about you. All I ever did was respond in the comments. People were free to draw their own conclusions. It's why I linked all those posts.
Nothing wrong with that. Would have been nice to contain it to one thread where something could have actually been resolved though. Is frivolousfingers an alt of yours?
thewebofslime ago
The reason I disagree with this is because the post that triggered Vindicator actually did very well, despite his attacking. It did better than most posts. I can't recall the exact number but someone mentioned that despite attempts to get it dropped down, it kept getting upvotes.
If a lot of red flags were thrown up it was because I was getting a lot of red flags and I was being harassed on multiple platforms including on my own site, that I had just put up... instantly. I also played possum early on and that made Vindicator and Crensch expect a completely different reaction out of me. I even told Vindicator that I would be be adopting a new strategy because I did not expect him to be the one to fall for the honesty trap. He still fell for it.
I conformed the post to the submission requirements and we all discussed it beforehand that we would work to make that happen. I was not given constructive criticism, I was told it was "self aggrandizing, baffle with bullshit" even though it was virtually the same material as another post that did very well that was flared "share"; the difference in the two being that the latter post did not align with Q as much.
I understand exactly what they are dealing with which is why I explained, in detail, how the shill machine works on the site. I have been doxxed. I get gay porn in my inbox. I get people calling me shill all the time... and on and on. Notice that I only react when I am trying to expose someone's real motives. I also deal with drama on multiple platforms, not just Voat. I'm signed up everywhere. I get malware sent to me. I get it all. I'm not complaining, I understand how it works. I am saying the way I deal with it and the way this group of mods deal with it are drastically different and my way is effective. If I feed the trolls, it is to expose them. Otherwise, I deal with them in private and I promise that no one ever likes that approach out of me. But... again, I'm after actual bad guys.
Also, if harassment gets bad enough, then it is a matter for the courts. This is why you don't make it public unless you have to. It just isn't smart to post about anything that may potentially end up in court. This is another reason I have cut down on my posting and research. I have to go to court on some of the stuff I find, sometimes. I can't talk about it.
Srayzie had no problem doxxing hojuroku or whoever, so the doxxing outrage is very, very selective. Everyone is happy when I doxx who they hate. I also did not doxx anyone who was a user even though I have the power to. But, again, I am after pedophiles, not minimum wage shills. My inboxes also have people sending me doxxes of stuff all the time because they know I collect it. People have definitely sent me doxx on other users.
It's all contained in this thread, now. Plenty of people have been smoked out. A few more will smoke themselves out without my effort. Remember, the second split will come as soon as everything has calmed down.
Whether or not people are shills, if they act like shills, it is no different.
No. But I would make an educated guess that I know that person irl or from Poal.
The answer to all of this is simple and every reasonable person who has chimed in, I think, gets it. I really just wanted people to understand that this behavior is studied so that it can be implemented in an intentional way. Does it happen organically? I'm absolutely willing to entertain that idea, but the evidence surrounding it is going to make convincing me otherwise a hard sell.
Whether or not these people have been planning on implementing "splitting" is the real question. It would be a pretty good trick if they were manipulated into it. It would be exceedingly sad if that's just how they are as people. The easiest way to fix it is to end the shill behavior and focus on making a positive movement to get truth out. If they do that, then not a single reasonable person will have problems. I think we can all agree on that.
TheGrandMaster ago
Brilliant, you're clearly on the right track with all the downvoting