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MadWorld ago

he argues that those that downvoted his post are considered destroyers themselves for downvoting it.

No, I believe he said that those downvoters also happened to be the vote manipulators, to which those names were already obtained, as the outcome of his detection algorithm. In other words, those were the vote manipulators. What you just said could be misinterpreted as if the action of downvoting that submission caused the labelling of destroyers.

Well my dear admin, I publicly admit that I downvoted your post for such implication you did and because of the fact that I disagree with at least one of your recognitions there. If for that you consider me a destroyer, then so be it. But I honestly couldn't care less your consideration on said matter.

I thought about it afterwards, and I agree with you in that Putt should not have looked at who downvoted that submission. He shoud not have done it outside of the administrative reasons, such as investigation of potential vote manipulation. Votes are sacred to us. In this case, his curiosity has created a minor fear among the voters. This played right into the hands of those who have sought to destroy Voat. So those real enemies will be using this as attack vector to drive other users away from Voat.

Now this doesn't mean that I do not appreciate the effort that you put in this site Puttitout. But even when I do so, I will still keep a critical eye to your labour because it has to be put on check sometimes. This so your labour can improve and benefit the community in a whole as you have intended many times but in some occasions have failed to do so.

I think Putt should define the boundaries that he should not cross. So when other factors, such as emotion and curiosity, are overdriving his brain, he can go through the check list and refrain from making spontaneous decisions... It sucks to be an admin, especially for the one who has the principle to do the right thing.

I will however express my disappointing on some users that I thought wouldn't engage in the use of alts and yet new evidence has come forward showing that they do.

In this drama, I think the reason for the use of alts to shitpost was to separate the main accounts that have to uphold their integrity and the perception of certain public image, and the alts that can be used to fully express themselves without damaging the image of the main accounts.

I will defend SBBH of accusations that they are cancer to Voat because I know they are not.

There are good goats on the SBBH list; however, there are also accounts that look suspicious.

So I do defend their right to defend themselves from the effort of some of the SBBH to attack them. As I defend the right of the SBBH community to say they don't respect them in their own sub. Both sides need to learn some restraint in the way they are engaging this deal and know that in the end they are due to coexist in Voat's community.

If everyone would adhere to the subverse's rules and stick to the boundaries, those dramas would have being greatly minimized. Having said that, both the regular users and the mods should stand by the rules, no exceptions. And before a particular user is banned, mods should reflect on the subverse rules, without letting their emotions determine the outcome...

In conclusion I propose that from now on, whether on private or public subverses when a ban is going to be applied it has to be done with a previous post showing the evidence that justify said ban...

I think we have discussed this topic sometime back, somewhere around the time before that @bob333 deleted his account. But nothing came of it...

SearchVoatBot ago

This comment was linked from this v/Voat comment by @sguevar.

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Hand_of_Node ago

In this case, his curiosity has created a minor fear among the voters.

I'd bet more than minor. This was a Spez moment.

MadWorld ago

XD He probably did not think it thought and just spontaneously jumped right in.

sguevar ago

I think Putt should define the boundaries that he should not cross. So when other factors, such as emotion and curiosity, are overdriving his brain, he can go through the check list and refrain from making spontaneous decisions... It sucks to be an admin, especially for the one who has the principle to do the right thing.

I agree with you there. He needs help to do so. There is nothing wrong with asking for it.

In this drama, I think the reason for the use of alts to shitpost was to separate the main accounts that have to uphold their integrity and the perception of certain public image, and the alts that can be used to fully express themselves without damaging the image of the main accounts.

I disagree with you here. Even if your description of their intent is correct, context is everything. Shitposting with the same account on a context in which shitposting is in order should not inflict in an account's credibility. and @srayzie and @shizy should be entitled to shitpost as to post credible posts in their subs and others with the same account.

Those that take the content out of context can easily be proven full of shit afterwards and actually builds up an account's credibility.

There are good goats on the SBBH list; however, there are also accounts that look suspicious.

I also agree with this.

If everyone would adhere to the subverse's rules and stick to the boundaries, those dramas would have being greatly minimized. Having said that, both the regular users and the mods should stand by the rules, no exceptions. And before a particular user is banned, mods should reflect on the subverse rules, without letting their emotions determine the outcome...

True but now we are faced with dealing with the matter with a different approach.

I think we have discussed this topic sometime back, somewhere around the time before that @bob333 deleted his account. But nothing came of it...

Which means that there needs to be a discussion promptly on how bans need to be handled, both on subs, public and private, and Voat in a whole.

I also haven't receive any response from @Puttitout regarding u/Obrez. And I know he is too busy with a lot of pms and pings regarding this whole deal. Which also prove the need for Putt to ask for help to users that he trust to be objective and can handle the creation of the new process in an orderly fashion.

I need to see evidence that u/Obrez's ban is justified. Otherwise I respectfully demand a vindication from Putt and that he is reinstated without the badge that he was given.

This has gotten out of hand, and one could argue it was the algorithm etc, but the action was taken by Putt. So he is responsible for this.

Again, I appreciate him and his effort to keep Voat running. And I will always defend Voat against any ill user that comes to destroy what it represents but this also means that the admin needs to be held accountable also, as sucky as it may sound and be.

I wish no ill to Putt nor anyone here at Voat, including the faggot full of shit @virge that thinks I will let him manipulate the community at his own will.

MadWorld ago

I need to see evidence that u/Obrez's ban is justified. Otherwise I respectfully demand a vindication from Putt and that he is reinstated without the badge that he was given.

I think I might be able to shine some light on this user. This account is somewhat active, with fairly regular threshold. Other than one obvious spike, I cannot tell anything unusual about his voting pattern. So it is possible that he targeted someone in the early April. If it was a low level targeting, only Putt would have enough info to make the conclusion.

https://i.imgtc.ws/KahD6bn.png

sguevar ago

This is the message I got from him yesterday: https://imgur.com/a/NqoZ7RS - sorry for the imgur link but imgoat is banned and the one you used is forbidden from my work place - error 403.

If the activity is regarding the constant war he had vs u/theoldones that would mean that my constant attempt to show u/virge as the full of shit deceptive faggot he is would also be considered as vote manipulation.

Hence I need more data and I agree with you @Puttitout is the only one that bring a light on this. However I thank you for the effort to bring this up. But you know that spikes on activity is not enough to determine vote manipulation and hence does open the door for a reasonable doubt on the user.

Thanks again!

MadWorld ago

Interesting exchange, he appears sincere and does not strike me as a vote manipulator...

sguevar ago

I don't know if you recall but he was the reason why I created the post of Objectivity is important on protect voat a while back.

The willingness he has had to defend himself and even ask for help doesn't strike me as suspicious either. I have said it before, even when someone has the odds against him and keeps fighting for his defense by providing proofs of his statements shows a valid cause and deserves to be defended. One could argue that he is one heck of a LARP like one of those CIA trained guys but I honestly doubt it.

I think he means well and has no ill intentions.

Hope you can extend this to Puttitout as again, none of the comments I have ever made to him have been answered about this or other matters. So I guess I am not on his trusted parley but this needs to be reviewed.

MadWorld ago

I don't know if you recall but he was the reason why I created the post of Objectivity is important on protect voat a while back.

The willingness he has had to defend himself and even ask for help doesn't strike me as suspicious either. I have said it before, even when someone has the odds against him and keeps fighting for his defense by providing proofs of his statements shows a valid cause and deserves to be defended. One could argue that he is one heck of a LARP like one of those CIA trained guys but I honestly doubt it.

Yes I remember that time.

Hope you can extend this to Puttitout as again, none of the comments I have ever made to him have been answered about this or other matters. So I guess I am not on his trusted parley but this needs to be reviewed.

You might be getting the impression that he responds to "trusted users" quicker than others. But that is not true. I have sent questions to him, but he rarely replied back. It is most likely because he is extremely busy, and the fact that his inbox is constantly been flooded by @TerdWilson's army of alts.

sguevar ago

You might be getting the impression that he responds to "trusted users" quicker than others. But that is not true. I have sent questions to him, but he rarely replied back. It is most likely because he is extremely busy, and the fact that his inbox is constantly been flooded by @TerdWilson's army of alts.

I see. Well thanks anyway.

theoldones ago

oh wow.

there are several things i have to say about that message.

sguevar ago

You can address u/Obrez when he gets reinstated if in fact he is reinstated.

I am just simply stating that the activity he has can't be argued as vote manipulation with the graph that @MadWorld provided. So in that case I need more data. This user deserve to have this defense, I would have done it for you too if it was the case as I did when I proved with your reactions the fact that you didn't know that you had posted suspicious links as per Mad's post.

I know you know I have no ill intentions with this, but I find it weird that both guilty and innocent appear to be put into the same wave of bans due to the algorithm which implies it may be defective and needs correction or as I proposed on the post that a new process for bans is created decentralizing the decision from the admin to reduce the risk of uncalled bans and that it provides the right for a defense to the accused also.

That is why I brought the message to light.

theoldones ago

Obrez is on poal.co. i can find him.

sguevar ago

So am I. Though I don't use that account much, it has the same name sguevar and is there in case Voat is taken down.

This proves nothing.

MadWorld ago

Can you put me on your ping list and ping me when @Obrez responses back? Thanks!

sguevar ago

Here he just replied again: https://imgur.com/a/nY2CVIC

MadWorld ago

That seems perfectly reasonable! @Obrez, I hope you can get your account back!

sguevar ago

Sure, I sent him a message today with the link of this post and I am waiting for his answer.

jkasdfhk7732 ago

im going to remove you from my goon squad list as seem genuine & misinformed, plus have been vouched

non context, i just stalked your account for most recent

-dial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjqPl4j_uxA

sguevar ago

I guess I appreciate it.

jkasdfhk7732 ago

10-4 god speed

theoldones ago

i will talk to him at some point.