Sounds like a dumb question doesn't it?
Yet at /v/videos we find our selves under attack from some PV users because we refused to throw out the community chosen rules and replace them with stricter rules chosen by one guy.
Have I taken crazy pills?
They have even threatened that Atko would get involved. Are they on drugs? Atko was the one that told us to not be power-mongers.
We're doing what he asked; what the community wants.
I have long supported PV. But if this community has decided to abandon it's anti-power mod stance, then I'll have to reconsider.
I will not be a power-mod. I will not force arbitrary rules on a community that doesn't want them.
There is no team of mods on this site that is more open, transparent, and approachable than we are. What more do you expect?
If anyone is not happy with the current ruleset, all they need to do is start a community dialogue, and we will do as the community wishes.
If someone thinks they can force us to change rules, without consent from the community, by harassing or threatening us, they are wrong.
If PV is going to start supporting trolls who want arbitrary anti-community rules chosen by them alone, then we no longer value the PV communitys opinion.
I suggest you all review the sidebar here.
@kevdude - You've been silent on this. Enjoying the popcorn and show? How about weighing in.
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InnocentBystander ago
Relevent info on the banning
Standard responce when a user thinks the community chosen rules are wrong :
"If you would like to see changes in the rules, start a dialogue with the community. The mods do not make the decisions on rules here without community approval."
If you can't get a conversation started among the users, then you've got nothing.
It doesn't have to be a huge post. It just need to indicate that you're not alone and the community is interested in looking into it.
You listed 5 users you said had a problem. Two are users with a personal axe to grind that is unrelated, two are PV mods that we talked with and came to an understanding with.
That leaves 1 user. We don't make a sticky for that.
Disappointed ago
I don't have an agreement on anything with anybody. The last post I made was asking if you mods and the user could come to an agreement on this but it seems like no.
I still think you mods should ask the users yourselves if this is the right thing to be doing and if 1 month isn't too long which I think it is. Personally when I've been spammed with reports I've ignored them and we have been spammed with reports a fair bit here on this sub.
InnocentBystander ago
Last we ended with you we had explained that this would be part of the next feedback post, his ban would be lifted if he agreed to stop spamming, and that we would make a sticky sooner if the community wanted one.
I had assumed that counts as an understanding, since you seemed to agree it was reasonable.
Disappointed ago
Well fair enough but I'd personally prefer you make a post asking about this specific banning now but like I said I want to see what others think first. I can see how you would think that is a deal though. You could always unban him and see what happens.
InnocentBystander ago
Your opinion has been heard, and it is being taken into consideration.
But that still only makes two, or three if we count @cynabuns.
If you think that it would be something others also want, make a neutral post and we will see.
We will follow it, and make a sticky if anything comes of it.
Slandering attack posts like what aou is doing does not help, and only makes it harder to determine what the community thinks.
Disappointed ago
I'd love it if a couple of you mods would take that 2-3 to 4-5 by virtue of you wanting to know yourselves. Anyway like I said I'll see what happens now that people might have had their fill of elections.
Cynabuns ago
You are counting the number, me and @Disappointed and whomever else, to rationalize whether to unban this guy or not??? I love you man, but you are reeeeeally not thinking clearly on this one.
TL;DR: You Banned A User For Pissing You Guys Off Behind The Scenes On A Default Subverse Because He Pressed The Report-Spam Button Too Much!!! @PuttitOut @Atko
InnocentBystander ago
No. That is not to decide on the ban.
It is to decide if there is community interest in having a sticky.
And your tldr is dishonest, we've spoken about that, so you know it's not true.
Cynabuns ago
IB, that is exactly the heart of the issue: You banned a user for hitting the report-spam button on a Default Sub, period. You three mods came to the agreement that it warranted a ban and executed it, and the length of the ban isn't even relevant frankly. The decision was just plain wrong. There doesn't need to be a post, there doesn't need to be more gyrations in here or anywhere else on the matter.
We all make mistakes and that is all this was---a bad decision executed out of frustration with a user that has been bugging the shit outta you guys. Just reverse the ban and this is done.
InnocentBystander ago
No.
We temp banned a malicious spammer that was abusing the sub in an effort to force his will against the community.
If you don't like the posted rules we use, talk to the community.
Trying to pressure us to do what you want goes against everything PV stands for. You are wrong, and should be ashamed.
Asking us to make a sticky to see what the community thinks would have been fair. Trying to push your own decision without community consultation is not.
I do not take orders from you. And you're being very arrogant if you think you alone speaks for all of Voat.
Cynabuns ago
He forced nothing on the community: the community does not have access to the Report-Spam feed, only mods.
I am not the only one talking with you here, IB, and I am proud not ashamed of being part of PV and the entire Voat community and the fact that I have the freedom here to render my opinions.
The "decision" is not mine alone and comments over multiple threads demonstrates that a mistake has been made.
I know you don't take orders from me, IB, and not once did I ever ask you to "follow my orders". I have tried very respectfully to point out that the decision you three made was just wrong. I have demonstrated no arrogance, only a love for Voat and the freedoms that the Admins have given us.
At this point, I think we are just going to have to agree that we disagree.
I want to be very clear on something here too: I still respect and like you very much for all that you have done for v/videos and for Voat, and I don't see that changing. The only thing that disappoints and honestly frustrates the snot out of me me that I cannot find the right words to show you is, the 'decision' that was made was not a good one, not you individually or the mod team.
InnocentBystander ago
You may have missed his stated purpose behind all this. He want us to drop the community definition for spam, and use his personal definition. He does not care what the community thinks and has no interest in discussing it with them.
He thought that spamming us, then whipping 'PV into a frenzy would force us to do what he wants.
You and others are being successfully manipulated.
You are telling us to drop the community rules without involving the community.
That is not what PV stands for.
A small number of users, including a troll, and a user with an axe to grind, counts for little.
I think we're up to four genuine users that have asked for it.
Getting closer, but still not enough.
If we put up a sticky every time someone was unhappy, there would be almost always a sticky that nobody cares about, and we would end up with less community involvement.
So we try to keep them spaced apart, except when something big comes up. This does not (yet) qualify.
No worries, I may get frustrated, but I do not hold a grudge for more than thirty seconds.
If I sound angry at all, I will be back to liking you again after a few moments.
I do respect you, and what you do.
What frustrates me is that you seem to say that as if it was a fact, and not just your opinion.
We do disagree. So who's right will be decided by the community.