My supposition is that this was a normal human mistake. He did not realize the post was about reddit when he marked it off-topic. Though given that the other posts exist, I would not personally see an issue with removing this one since it is less informative than the other two posts, the title is clickbait-y and uninformative itself.
I am bothered by the swiftness with which some here have been calling for the moderator to be removed, before investigating the facts of the matter. We should be careful not to accept what a headline tells us, even if it is on /v/conspiracy. I encourage everyone to exercise critical thinking and invest a minute or two researching something before jumping onto a bandwagon.
My supposition is that this was a normal human mistake.
This is correct. Well, technically. It should be understood that when a sub is even a fraction as busy as that one, the mod(s) simply aren't able to scrutinize every single word in every single link that is posted. It's just not possible. The link you posted in your comment (the one that was removed) had a title that was much too incendiary (and a flag went up). Additionally, it was an archive link to a website that was not reddit. It was unfortunately a victim of the checklist. The removal had zero to do with any people from any country.
I think this is an oft under-appreciated reality of fairly and objectively moderating anything, be it a subverse, a debate, etc. I simply cannot judge people's intentions or their politics against mine, whatever they may be, because chances are if I do I'll be wrong at least 50% of the time, and that's just not what's going on here. Case and point: Stay on topic and don't break the rules and your content won't be moderated.
A few more things that'll hopefully add some extra clarity. You and others who are actually thinking have already brought this up:
This post is a literal summary and boasts a link to the same thing that was previously removed. The title and text in the post clearly relate to reddit.
This post of a film documenting an attack carried out by Israel on an American vessel is clearly critical (and rightfully so) of Israel. This was a great post (oh, and it also clearly mentioned the comment graveyard found at its brother on reddit). I upvoated it.
All of this begs the question: What, if any, are the consequences for being a shit-flinging maladroit when it comes to uncovering nefarious acts by people who attempt to manipulate us? It's obvious that if you're the "shill" there are myriad problems when people find you out, but what of the false accusers? Is it really the case that we have to just accept that there will be "collateral damage" (to borrow a fucked up military term) in this "crusade" to bring light to this sort of thing? Had I been weak (but well intentioned) and replaced with some asshole that actually is what people are accusing me of being, do we accept this? (LOL, I doubt it) Yes, these are very much rhetorical questions, but I think they're worthy of consideration, even if only as a thought experiment.
Thanks to all of you who were reasonable and pushed back against the screamers and mud slingers. Let this tragic comedy demonstrate who it really is that we should be vigilant over. To those who are still up in arms and paranoid, I invite you to spam F5 on the mod logs of any subverse I happen to moderate, though I suspect you will be woefully bored (actually, be nice to the server, but check me none-the-less).
This song is oddly appropriate. Lyrics are in the description.
Just wanted to comment- sorry you had to deal with rage drama. It's a shame that a sub that claims to foster critical thinking doesn't actually do that.
what of the false accusers?... Is it really the case that we have to just accept that there will be "collateral damage" ... in this "crusade" to bring light to this sort of thing?
Yaw. Y'all are evil, agenda-driven, shitlords. Duh. Why else would ya even want to mod a large sub anyway? Gawd! I can't believe I even have to explain this to you. (read it with a slight valley-girl accent, you'll enjoy it)
Seriously though, Reddit has tainted all mods in perpetuity. There are a fair number of shitlord mods over there- and those bad apples have ruined it for the rest of ya. Consider it the lovely by-product of internet anonymity and rage-culture. You opening up a public sub tacitly implies you're willing to deal with shitheads posting bullshit about you. Thems the breaks.
Thanks for popping in and clearing it up though, keep up the good work.
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Anyone who's interacted with me more than not at all should be able to tell that this is all some fabricated bullshit.
Fabricated bullshit wouldn't have garnered such a response and support, you were censoring a topic people wanted on the sub, your bias is showing and people should unsub from your sub as you've shown an incapacity to moderate without bias.
Wouldn't it be wise to avoid deleting a post that is already generating dozens of comments and dozens of votes? At that point the post has shown that it has VALUE and INTEREST to the sub. If you delete something when it's new for a reason like you offer there's no harm and no foul.
If you delete a post that is active you're censoring discussion.
Wouldn't it be wise to avoid deleting a post that is already generating dozens of comments and dozens of votes?
Perhaps. But VALUE and INTEREST cannot simply be allowed to DICTATE what should be ALLOWED in subs that already HAVE RULES, even when those RULES are not PERFECTLY clear in EVERY instance. Had 1/3 of the people THROWING A FIT over perceived NONSENSE actually INSPECTED the subverse and the modlog this BULLSHIT would NOT HAVE TRANSPIRED. Feel me? Also:
If you delete a post that is active you're censoring discussion.
My honest thought on this is that it's just not true. Yes, the post doesn't appear on the sub's main page anymore. However, the post is still there. Anyone who wants to visit and post additional comments and have discussion is welcome to do so and there is nothing any mod can do about it. You can share the link and more people can come. It doesn't go away even when a real shithead mod is trying to censor. You have to admit it, the people pushing this issue are really just chasing a ghost that quite frankly, at least in the case of @Genghis_Khan and /v/MeanwhileOnReddit, is simply not there.
why are RULES so important to you? serious question.
you say it's not on the "main page anymore." where is it, though? basically invisible. which is the point of deleting something to hide it.
no, I don't think they're chasing a ghost, I think they're doing god's work by sussing out manipulation of the site. This is widely known to happen and can be conducted by intelligence services, marketers, or PR firms. Each of those have an interest in shaping public awareness of certain topics and controlling "social media" such as this is a primary goal. When one behaves in a manner that suggests that they are, in the least, sympathetic to those goals one should expect to have to defend themselves.
In my estimation you have done a very poor job of defending your actions. Mostly you've gone with the ol' "move along, nothing to see here" tact, which is not going to cut it. You need to confront such things directly and address the issues being brought up in the accusations against you. If you are unable to do that we're left with the sense that maybe you've got something to hide.
No, it's not all so serious as this, but that's what the conversation is. If you directly address the key point here, which is that you're using deletions to limit communication on a certain topic, then it will go away, provided your future actions match those statements. It's not such a hard thing to do - give it a shot. and maybe relax on the "man behind the desk power" and err on the side of letting people talk about what they want to talk about despite some made-up rules. It's not a slippery slope and things aren't getting "out of hand" - we're talking about /v/meanwhileonreddit, which basically exists to quarantine all that dogshit in one place. Of course it's going to be repetitive and shrill - what did you expect?
Am I to conclude, then, that after inspection of the sub, the topic in question, my response above, and the prevalence of other threads on the same exact topic not being removed, that you still feel I'm deliberately and malevolently limiting discussion?
No, you are meant to conclude that you haven't directly addressed the specific accusation. I think the best way to get everyone to go away is to suggest you have no intention of moderating to limit discussion of a particular topic. That seems to be what OP really cares about, after all.
I am sympathetic to being tired of the constant reposting of the Liberty story, but I think the case where shills were being recruited on a forum is one that could use a little reposting.
view the rest of the comments →
Mumberthrax ago
So far I found one post which was removed relating to Israel. https://voat.co/v/MeanwhileOnReddit/comments/311253
The moderator removed it because he thought it was off-topic. https://voat.co/v/MeanwhileOnReddit/comments/311253/1168736
@d23 pointed out elsewhere in this discussion that other posts with the same article have been left up, and gained a fair amount of votes: https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/comments/323206/1239355
https://voat.co/v/MeanwhileOnReddit/comments/309918
https://voat.co/v/MeanwhileOnReddit/comments/321611
My supposition is that this was a normal human mistake. He did not realize the post was about reddit when he marked it off-topic. Though given that the other posts exist, I would not personally see an issue with removing this one since it is less informative than the other two posts, the title is clickbait-y and uninformative itself.
I am bothered by the swiftness with which some here have been calling for the moderator to be removed, before investigating the facts of the matter. We should be careful not to accept what a headline tells us, even if it is on /v/conspiracy. I encourage everyone to exercise critical thinking and invest a minute or two researching something before jumping onto a bandwagon.
Genghis_Khan ago
This is correct. Well, technically. It should be understood that when a sub is even a fraction as busy as that one, the mod(s) simply aren't able to scrutinize every single word in every single link that is posted. It's just not possible. The link you posted in your comment (the one that was removed) had a title that was much too incendiary (and a flag went up). Additionally, it was an archive link to a website that was not reddit. It was unfortunately a victim of the checklist. The removal had zero to do with any people from any country.
I think this is an oft under-appreciated reality of fairly and objectively moderating anything, be it a subverse, a debate, etc. I simply cannot judge people's intentions or their politics against mine, whatever they may be, because chances are if I do I'll be wrong at least 50% of the time, and that's just not what's going on here. Case and point: Stay on topic and don't break the rules and your content won't be moderated.
A few more things that'll hopefully add some extra clarity. You and others who are actually thinking have already brought this up:
All of this begs the question: What, if any, are the consequences for being a shit-flinging maladroit when it comes to uncovering nefarious acts by people who attempt to manipulate us? It's obvious that if you're the "shill" there are myriad problems when people find you out, but what of the false accusers? Is it really the case that we have to just accept that there will be "collateral damage" (to borrow a fucked up military term) in this "crusade" to bring light to this sort of thing? Had I been weak (but well intentioned) and replaced with some asshole that actually is what people are accusing me of being, do we accept this? (LOL, I doubt it) Yes, these are very much rhetorical questions, but I think they're worthy of consideration, even if only as a thought experiment.
Thanks to all of you who were reasonable and pushed back against the screamers and mud slingers. Let this tragic comedy demonstrate who it really is that we should be vigilant over. To those who are still up in arms and paranoid, I invite you to spam F5 on the mod logs of any subverse I happen to moderate, though I suspect you will be woefully bored (actually, be nice to the server, but check me none-the-less).
This song is oddly appropriate. Lyrics are in the description.
BeerBaron ago
Just wanted to comment- sorry you had to deal with rage drama. It's a shame that a sub that claims to foster critical thinking doesn't actually do that.
Yaw. Y'all are evil, agenda-driven, shitlords. Duh. Why else would ya even want to mod a large sub anyway? Gawd! I can't believe I even have to explain this to you. (read it with a slight valley-girl accent, you'll enjoy it)
Seriously though, Reddit has tainted all mods in perpetuity. There are a fair number of shitlord mods over there- and those bad apples have ruined it for the rest of ya. Consider it the lovely by-product of internet anonymity and rage-culture. You opening up a public sub tacitly implies you're willing to deal with shitheads posting bullshit about you. Thems the breaks.
Thanks for popping in and clearing it up though, keep up the good work.
123_456 ago
OK. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, since you took the time to explain.
Genghis_Khan ago
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Anyone who's interacted with me more than not at all should be able to tell that this is all some fabricated bullshit.
gatordontplaythatsht ago
Fabricated bullshit wouldn't have garnered such a response and support, you were censoring a topic people wanted on the sub, your bias is showing and people should unsub from your sub as you've shown an incapacity to moderate without bias.
Empire_of_the_mind ago
Wouldn't it be wise to avoid deleting a post that is already generating dozens of comments and dozens of votes? At that point the post has shown that it has VALUE and INTEREST to the sub. If you delete something when it's new for a reason like you offer there's no harm and no foul.
If you delete a post that is active you're censoring discussion.
Genghis_Khan ago
Perhaps. But VALUE and INTEREST cannot simply be allowed to DICTATE what should be ALLOWED in subs that already HAVE RULES, even when those RULES are not PERFECTLY clear in EVERY instance. Had 1/3 of the people THROWING A FIT over perceived NONSENSE actually INSPECTED the subverse and the modlog this BULLSHIT would NOT HAVE TRANSPIRED. Feel me? Also:
My honest thought on this is that it's just not true. Yes, the post doesn't appear on the sub's main page anymore. However, the post is still there. Anyone who wants to visit and post additional comments and have discussion is welcome to do so and there is nothing any mod can do about it. You can share the link and more people can come. It doesn't go away even when a real shithead mod is trying to censor. You have to admit it, the people pushing this issue are really just chasing a ghost that quite frankly, at least in the case of @Genghis_Khan and /v/MeanwhileOnReddit, is simply not there.
gatordontplaythatsht ago
So basically you'll delete as you please and we're all just looking for trouble by calling you out for it? Seems legit.
Empire_of_the_mind ago
why are RULES so important to you? serious question.
you say it's not on the "main page anymore." where is it, though? basically invisible. which is the point of deleting something to hide it.
no, I don't think they're chasing a ghost, I think they're doing god's work by sussing out manipulation of the site. This is widely known to happen and can be conducted by intelligence services, marketers, or PR firms. Each of those have an interest in shaping public awareness of certain topics and controlling "social media" such as this is a primary goal. When one behaves in a manner that suggests that they are, in the least, sympathetic to those goals one should expect to have to defend themselves.
In my estimation you have done a very poor job of defending your actions. Mostly you've gone with the ol' "move along, nothing to see here" tact, which is not going to cut it. You need to confront such things directly and address the issues being brought up in the accusations against you. If you are unable to do that we're left with the sense that maybe you've got something to hide.
No, it's not all so serious as this, but that's what the conversation is. If you directly address the key point here, which is that you're using deletions to limit communication on a certain topic, then it will go away, provided your future actions match those statements. It's not such a hard thing to do - give it a shot. and maybe relax on the "man behind the desk power" and err on the side of letting people talk about what they want to talk about despite some made-up rules. It's not a slippery slope and things aren't getting "out of hand" - we're talking about /v/meanwhileonreddit, which basically exists to quarantine all that dogshit in one place. Of course it's going to be repetitive and shrill - what did you expect?
gatordontplaythatsht ago
Yeah he's full of shit, I'd suggest people unsub from his sub immediately.
Genghis_Khan ago
Am I to conclude, then, that after inspection of the sub, the topic in question, my response above, and the prevalence of other threads on the same exact topic not being removed, that you still feel I'm deliberately and malevolently limiting discussion?
Empire_of_the_mind ago
No, you are meant to conclude that you haven't directly addressed the specific accusation. I think the best way to get everyone to go away is to suggest you have no intention of moderating to limit discussion of a particular topic. That seems to be what OP really cares about, after all.
I am sympathetic to being tired of the constant reposting of the Liberty story, but I think the case where shills were being recruited on a forum is one that could use a little reposting.