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antiracistMetal ago

Going by the fraction of: CCP / years as a Voat member...

Two users in this thread: @Anam and @ggolemg

Both have decimal expansions with period 28.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=7%2F5.8

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8.1%2F5.8

PeaceSeeker, is the probability of that more or less likely than abiogenesis?

@heygeorge @chirogonemd @peaceseeker

chirogonemd ago

Saying this with total humor, this might be the most autistic thing I've ever seen.

First of all, what the fuck even caused you to think about this ratio. Second, why you'd calculate it for the users in this thread. Third, relate it to abiogenesis.

I know why your philosophy professors were not your friends lol. I can't answer this question. I don't know how. It seems so cosmically fucking stupid, and at the same time it is somehow compelling to think about.

I hate you.

@peaceseeker @heygeorge

Bananazz ago

Did you think the similarities between the words 'Cosmic' and 'comic' were an accident?

antiracistMetal ago

I've been wondering how some new users have more karma than me. It's like they've been here 7 months but have 37k karma. I feel like I post daily, and I'm at 5.5k CCP. I don't get how people can post so much. Like @eagleshigh has 1105 submission to v/niggers, and he basically doesn't even use this site any more. Meanwhile, I've been posting multiple threads a day, and I only have 752 submissions.

There was some talk about this user base being fictional, being made up of bots.

So I also wondered if the karma scores were also fictional.

I started checking people's karma.

Quickly I detected a pattern. People seemed to have some constant multiple of year to CCP. Like 1.1 years and 1.1k CCP. Or 1.1 years and 2.2k CCP.

So I started to wonder if the algorithm just picked some constant to multiply by the years to create the CCP.

But then I got anomalous data. That would be when someone's year and CCP didn't have a pretty constant coefficient. So I figured those were the real users.

But then sometimes I was curious what the fraction came out to, and I would enter the fraction into my URL bar to get the Google Calculator calculation.

But sometimes there was no repeated pattern, and Google only displays so many digits before rounding the last one.

So I became interested in wondering when the period of fractions forms.

So this caused me to have to go to Wolfram to see the extended decimal expansion.

That answers your first question about why I thought about this ratio.

Then, I've been doing this on users generally, regardless of the thread. So without prejudice, I'd of course do it on this thread also. That answers your second question.

Third, PeaceSeeker had just mentioned the probability of abiogenesis to me recently, so it was "affordable" on my mind. That is, it was ready on my mind to be used when there was an affordance for it. So that answers your third question.

I do not know how to handle probabilities when it comes to infinity.

For example, on the real XY plane, (R^2), pick 3 points randomly. What is the probability that they will all be on the same line?

Or, pick 4 points randomly. What is the probability that parallel lines can be formed from them?

Even, on the real number line, pick a number. What is the probability that that number would be picked? 0. But nevertheless, it was picked.

Or, of the natural numbers, pick a number. What is the probability that this number is even? Half? But the number of odd numbers is infinite, and the number of even numbers is infinite. How do we solve the fraction Infinity/Infinity.

I guess none of that stuff is related to abiogenesis. Whereas, I think the problem with abiogenesis probability is the reference class problem more generally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_class_problem

So I feel that my skepticism toward probability is warranted. Maybe mathematicians know better than me about how to solve probabilities dealing with infinity. Maybe philosophers of science know better than me about how to resolve the reference class problem.

So, in this thread, this probability problem I posed... It's kind of like both of them, right? Well, not the infinite one, unless we consider the number of years to have infinite precision, and also the karma value to be possibly infinite. But those of those are not possible. The year value has finite precision. And the karma value is very small, not even one million.

But then we have the reference class problem here. How many users should we expect this site to have? How would the distribution of this value over that user base look like? What is the probability that those users with those values would be in this thread? What is the probability that two users would have a fraction with the same period? What is the probability that two users would have a fraction with the same period of 28?

These problems are difficult, even if infinities aren't involved, or even if the reference class problem isn't involved.

Just pointing to the difficulty of such a manageable problem ought to humble us regarding our ability to estimate probabilities of some more intractable problem, like abiogenesis.

Regarding this problem...

If we have the year precision to only one decimal place... Then we have 10 * 10 possible values for the year. It has the form x.y where x, y are between {0, 9}. So that's 100 possible values.

And then the karma value. Well let's say, reasonably, no user have more than 100k karma. And if that's false, no user has more than 1m karma.

So then there can only be 100 * 1m possible values for this fraction.

(The x value in x.y can't actually even be 9, since Voat hasn't been around for 9 years. But whatever.)

So then if we assume even distribution over the user base, and assume that any users joining this thread have equal probability...

Then we should be able to calculate the probability that two users will have the same fractional period, as well as be able to calculate the probability that two users will have the same fractional period of 28.

@peaceseeker @heygeorge @niggaskissin

I know why your philosophy professors were not your friends lol.

Maybe because I was a stupid scientismic shit, akin to Dead-Hand.

mikenigger ago

I post daily

not for long

Anam ago

All probability is conditional, taking the form p(x|y), even if y is unstated background knowledge. Without context, the probability of anything is zero. The argument from abiogenesis, is fallacious precisely because it actively omits any context. For all x, p(x|null) = 0, the statistical equivalent of a division by zero. It is meaningless, and can fallaciously support any conclusion.

Furthermore, we cannot deduce from a given probability of unity or zero that an event must or cannot occur. Probability is exceedingly useful tool of thought, but it cannot make such strong assertions.

antiracistMetal ago

Tell that to @PeaceSeeker.

chirogonemd ago

Confirmed autist.

I've been wondering how some new users have more karma than me.

I have noticed that there are certain accounts at this site with just outrageous SCP/CCP levels, but they are frequently those kinds of accounts that do seem like bots (or people with an extraordinary amount of time on their hands combined with a desire to feed the circle jerk). It definitely seems to be intentional, and that seems important because most of us are here to entertain ourselves and chat, and so our CCP/years ratios are kind of incidental. But these people, if that's what they are, have to be doing this like they're on a fucking mission, just constantly refreshing a host of news sites in order to be the first to post the newest releases, or whatever. And I feel like they must be doing it all day fucking long - supporting the case that maybe these are bots.

But then again, some people just post good shit and perhaps they do it consistently, or they just consistently make insightful comments. Still, having like 100k CCP seems insane. Peace has a little over 5 years here and over 40k CCP, and that seems like a reasonable number for someone who just makes insightful posts. I'm not differentiating between SCP and CCP though. I have decent CCP for my time here, but my SCP is abysmal. I guess I'm not a builder.

These problems are difficult, even if infinities aren't involved, or even if the reference class problem isn't involved.

How does this all change if instead of a frequentist approach, we calculate things based on a degree of belief ala Bayes?

Maybe because I was a stupid scientismic shit, akin to Dead-Hand.

Nah, it's because you come to the table with arguments like this, which nobody else had any background about, and while apparently tangential, are still relevant, making them super frustrating to deal with. I could picture being your philosophy professor and after class you come to my office hours with stuff like this, and I'd be like, who the fuck are you.

@peaceseeker @heygeorge

antiracistMetal ago

One thing was that I was a know-it-all, who never did the readings. It was like I had nothing to learn, since I knew it all already.

Even after college, after I had dedicated my life to philosophy and spent so much time studying it, I continued to embarrass myself in front of those professors.

Like, if college me was embarrassing because he thought evolutionary psychology reduced morality scientifically, or that morality didn't exist because it wasn't made out of atoms, or whatever scientismic attitude you want...

...then after college, philosophical me was embarrassing because he thought morality was rational or sui generis or that you can't get Ought from Is.

So I got it from all angles. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Too scientismic, or too philosophical without enough regard for the power of science.

It's like, embarrassment at all turns, no matter how much time you put in.

@niggaskissin @peaceseeker @heygeorge @eagleshigh

Eagleshigh did the same thing. 5 years ago on Voat he thought that philosophy meant bullshit, and that evolutionary psychology was a thing. And now Eagleshigh doesn't even believe that psychology is a science, and he believes that IQ don't real, and is a dualist. What a fucking idiot.

So he went from being an idiot scientismist, to being an idiot philosopher.

Only those who agree 100% with me about my current philosophical positions are not idiots.

Heraclitus said you never step in the same river twice. This can be further "reduced" to, you never step into the same river once. So maybe even I never agree with myself about my current philosophical positions. Meaning 100% of the world's population are idiots. That sounds about right.

Diogenes said no one is good, and I find that to be true. Maybe in that spirit, I can say, no one is not an idiot.

NiggasKissin ago

philosophical me was embarrassing because he thought morality was rational or sui generis or that you can't get Ought from Is.

Explain it like I'm gay. How do you get ought from is?

chirogonemd ago

I'm just giving you a hard time. I appreciate how your brain works.

I was also a little faggot in college. But less of a faggot than my Commie professors.

TheSeer ago

The level of autism in this post is too damn high!

Anam ago

I have only the most distant acquaintance with number theory, but enough to note that the most trivial or random puzzles can open the portal to the deepest questions. We may be present at the, ah, abiogenesis, of a fundamental new branch of mathematics here.

chirogonemd ago

The secret of the universe is embedded in Voat math. Shhh. Don't tell the Q people

@antiractimetal @peaceseeker @heygeorge

Anam ago

The answer to the ultimate question is 45!

chirogonemd ago

Hahaha. Can I get the gematria on this plz?

@antiracistmetal @heygeorge @peaceseeker

Anam ago

Mem, Aleph, Gimel, Aleph! Any takers on what that might mean? @Tallest_skil

Tallest_Skil ago

More judaism, it seems.

Anam ago

I thought you were the expert?