Crensch ago

You're pretending that censorship is defined by the US Bill of Rights.

OP:

The basis of what most people are referring to when they say "free speech" in English:

The basis of what most people are referring to when they say

The basis of what most people are

basis

EIMR ago

Free Speech is separate from, and more broad than the First Amendment. Moderation and downvotes are censorship, the question is whether it is good or bad censorship.

Amalek2016 ago

Mental illness, conspiracy theorist, tinfoil hat...

Just character assassination attempts to discredit me. Who tries and discredits mentally ill people?

I hope people learn to spot people like you.

How's the weather in Tel Aviv?

Amalek2016 ago

We have to start being more vocal about this. We have truth on our side. We can't let these people do what they did to Reddit.

Amalek2016 ago

So internet censorship is a myth?

Amalek2016 ago

Because it gives you a limit of a few comments per day. I wasn't at the limit yet. Now I am.

go1dfish ago

I sympathize with you amalek I really do. The problem is you are trying to push your opinions too hard.

Make a new account (you don't seem to have much trouble with this) and try posting a single thought to a single subverse and not spamming across subverses and accounts for a while.

I don't think your ideas are really all that unpopular here; you are persecuted for your tactics and prolificness to the point that you have become a joke that even the admins have joined in on (see the donation levels)

I agree with you that down votes constitute a form of mild censorship, but when you try to flood the site it only makes people want to down vote you more. If all else fails, stick to your own subs and try to build a following that way.

Amalek2016 ago

If this it what it takes to expose the lack of integrity than maybe it's worth it. I agree with you too though, but whenever I try and post something just once it usually gets brigaded indiscriminately, which is why I'm forced to spam my message to get visibility.

Down votes shouldn't result in account restrictions. Because of that I'm forced to create alts, or I can't comment.

@go1dfish

Well why do you call it a conspiracy when everything I say is admitted and factually sourced? I post information the MSM doesn't. That's all I do. I don't fabricate anything.

Libya and Syria were destabilized for Israel. I can show you Hillary's emails admitting this. Everything I say is based on factual information from government or historical/academic sources.

go1dfish ago

At this point you represent a 'brand' with negative connotations. Try disassociating yourself from it and not overdoing things.

Create an alt, not tied to the existing "Amalek" name, and try to contribute in a more measured way and see what happens.

Personally I don't agree with your views on jewish conspiracy etc...., but if you selectively post them in places where the subscribers are likely to be receptive of them, and don't go cross posting EVERYWHERE and saying you're doing it; you will have a much better reaction.

If that fails, try posting things that you expect people will like and upvote even if you don't agree with the message, I post stuff I don't agree with all the time. Just because you post something isn't an endorsement of what it says.

Cynabuns ago

You're not alone in your advice, and thank you; there's a few of us now and again that have taken the time to give him suggestions and feedback. I really thought he was headed this 'better' direction the other day with one of his accounts and he even created a new sub -- lots of discussion and upvotes too. But then he began again to spam the other subs, which of course got downvoted into oblivion, a reflection of as you so aptly put it, being "persecuted for [his] tactics and prolificness". I am hopeful that yours and other such advice reaches him. Someday.

Amalek2016 ago

Another audio recording explaining censorship on Voat. New recording. Just made it.

https://voat.co/v/whatever/comments/975391

http://picosong.com/NAY3

Snit_from_YTV ago

You're ignoring the facts on purpose.

Down votes result in account restrictions and you can no longer comment once you go into negative CCP.

That's the issue here you're purposely ignoring.

TheDude2 ago

Tldr

But whatever it is. We want to read it all. Type it all. Delete nothing. We've been over this.

Snit_from_YTV ago

So I guess Reddit isn't censored since they aren't government right?

So internet censorship is a myth?? Answer me OP.

SpottyMatt ago

Websites and their administrative teams can and absolutely do censor users' freedom of expression.

I think it's disingenuous to cast subverse-level restrictions on user expression as "censorship" since they are leveraging the mechanics of the shared community platform to build and shape the subverse's community - just as I would find it disingenuous to complain about the censorship of punk rock bands on country radio stations.

But of course, moderators can also unduly censure free expression.

Amalek2016 ago

They're site wide restrictions. - CCP and you can only comment like 3 times a day. Site wide.

Stop fucking lying.

SpottyMatt ago

Yes, submitting content in places that causes people to use the Voat platform's mechanics to express their dissatisfaction with the content results in the Voat platform's mechanics limiting the submitting accounts' ability to submit content.

Voat's job is to amalgamate all of this into a logical universe of internet things, so you can quickly find what interests you.

...

We're driven by the desire for an aggregator website that goes back to the days of quality content and friendly atmosphere.

-- https://voat.co/about

Submissions that

Have all been explicitly stated by as being unwelcome, and it shouldn't surprise anyone to see such submissions removed. Is this a technical limit on raw freedom of expression? Yes - in the same way that sushi recipes aren't welcome at a chili cookoff.

You of all people should know how trivial it is to just create a new account and continue to submit content and express yourself in spite of the effects of -CCP ;)

Amalek2016 ago

People use down votes to silence opposition. They use it as a disagree button and it's a known fact. People are abusing the systems to censor users.

SpottyMatt ago

Absolutely correct except that the word "abusing" should just be "using."

Communities use the tools of downvoats and moderation to create the kind of community and curate the kind of content they want.

This isn't bad or wrong!

People are allowed to have their own opinions. They're allowed to not want to see certain things. They're allowed, in fact, to create and manage a subverse that contains the kind of community and kind of content that they want!

"Voat is a place for freedom of expression" does not mean that "On Voat, I can post my content anywhere I want and everyone is required to be glad of it."

I means, "On Voat, if I cannot find a place to freely express myself, I am permitted to create one and express myself there. I expect that other users of Voat will respect my place, and in return I will respect theirs so that freedom of expression remains accessible to all."

Nazibot7 ago

Unpopular opinion is protected under free speech. You're basically saying it isn't.

Down votes shouldn't result in account restrictions. That's inexcusable. It means only popular opinion gets heard You don't understand that?

Voat is also for debate and discussion. You want to isolate yourself from opposing views.

Snit_from_YTV ago

Exactly. These people are exploiting the system and trying to convince us that it's not censorship... I hope people start to see what's up here.

We need to reach out to more people and continue to be vocal about it.

Snit_from_YTV ago

The second half was copy/paste.

Snit_from_YTV ago

Wow. OP is legitimately trying to confuse us into not being able to even identify censorship.

WTF-_ ago

See the shills man?

They're down voting you for saying what the actual definition of censorship is.

This is an organized attack on free speech to try and confuse people into not knowing what censorship is.

WTF-_ ago

Censorship isn't just censorship if government is doing it. Look up the definition of free speech.

" Any constraint to free speech"

-Google

Stop attacking free speech.

TheTrigger ago

Depends; it can be. Depends on who has the powers and how they use'em. I don't want/need that responsibility.

Voatdead ago

Censorship doesn't have to be from government to be censorship. Censorship is defined as any constraint to free speech. Account restrictions are a constraint.

Now being able to comment anymore is censorship because it's a constraint.

As explained here.

Uhhh, censorship doesn't have to come from government to be censorship. Censorship is ANY constraint to free speech. Account restrictions from down votes is a constraint.

As I explain here.

http://picosong.com/NAnW

Voatdead ago

Uhhh, censorship doesn't have to come from government to be censorship. Censorship is ANY constraint to free speech. Account restrictions from down votes is a constraint.

As I explain here.

http://picosong.com/NAnW

Crensch ago

Censorship is ANY constraint to free speech

So when I change the channel on my TV, I'm censoring the people that put their messages out on the other channels?

Voatdead ago

No, they're still talking. You're simply not listening.idiot.

Voatdead ago

Censorship isn't just a government thing...wow you people don't even know what censorship even is...

If a private citizen can prevent another private citizen from speaking that's called censorship.

Downvotes result in account restrictions. Not being able to talk anymore is censorship by definition.

go1dfish ago

I disagree, both moderation and down votes are a form of censorship.

Down votes are IMO more acceptable than moderation because it is a distributed form of weak censorship. People can still view the underlying content if they want to dig deeper into the listing/thread.

Moderation is potentially quite strong censorship and is part of the reason reddit has gotten as shitty as it is. The decisions of a hyper-minority of users deciding what the rest are capable of seeing at all is potentially much more dangerous than letting the collective voice decide the sorting of content (through voting)

It is true that none of this would be considered 1st amendment violations, and those that scream 1st amendment rights when they are censored this way come off as ignorant. But it's still very much a form of censorship.

Cynabuns ago

If anything, it's censure by the users but not censorship. Most (good) mods perform their moderation duties by a consensus of the users.

SarMegahhikkitha ago

How are you a /v/ProtectVoat mod? Even SRS-controlled /v/whatever has more common sense than you.

SpottyMatt ago

I really like the user censure/platform censor distinction, but I unfortunately used all 10,000 characters in the original post so I cannot add it in.

Amalek2016 ago

So internet censorship is a myth? Can't reply to me or what?

Snit_from_YTV ago

Also, did I invent the term peer censorship?

Snit_from_YTV ago

So you're saying internet censorship is a myth because it's not government doing it?

So Reddit isn't censored?

Answer me.

Snit_from_YTV ago

So peer censorship is just a term I invented?

smokratez ago

Not popular. You have to cry like a bitch that the evil racists and right wingers are down voting you. That will get you upvotes. Include a picture of your cat to seal the deal.

SpottyMatt ago

TL;DR

Things Voat Users are Not Entitled To

  1. Being liked by any particular community/subverse
  2. Having your content submissions liked by any particular community/subverse
  3. Having your content submissions allowed to remain in any particular community/subverse
  4. Being permitted to submit content to any particular community/subverse
  5. Having any particular quantity of CCP or SCP
  6. Being permitted to continue using Voat if you violate the user agreement

Being denied any of these things to which you are not entitled does not constitute censorship on the part of Voat.

Things Voat Users Are Entitled To

Assuming

  1. The user hasn't violated the user agreement
  2. The admins maintain and honor an ideological commitment to freedom of expression

Then Voat users are entitled to

  1. The ability to create your own subverse(s)
  2. Freedom of expression within your own subverse(s)
  3. Being permitted to submit content to "system" subverses.

Being denied any of these things to which you are entitled may be construed as censorship on the part of Voat.

Pithy Sound Bite

"Voat is a place for freedom of expression."

Does Not Mean

On Voat, I can submit any content anywhere I want and everyone is required to be glad of it.

Does Mean

On Voat, if I cannot find a place to freely express myself, I am permitted to create such a place and express myself there. I expect that other users of Voat will respect my place, and in return I will respect theirs so that freedom of expression remains accessible to all.

TheTrigger ago

One of these things is not like the other. Glossing over the fact that you lumped a lot of unrelated things together in your "Not Entitled To" section, each of which merit their own topic of discussion: your "Entitled To" section limits (trivializes) the topic of system subs. They live by "the ideology" of voat.

All "large" (read: important to the community) subs eventually lose private ownership and become "democratized".

Sorry, but this is 'murrica.

SpottyMatt ago

All "large" (read: important to the community) subs eventually lose private ownership and become "democratized".

I disagree that this is the way things are, and disagree that is is the way that things should be.

If I created /v/SpottyMattsClubhouse and it became extremely popular, I disagree that it would ever be appropriate for the community of Voat or Voat itself to take over management of that subverse from me.

It's easier to forget that a real person had to create and curate and grow a community when the name of the subverse doesn't have a username in it ( e.g. /v/80smusic ) but I do not think that lessens the creators' claim on the community space they created.

Not everyone will agree, and at some point in the life of a popular community space the members of the community and the space's managers will have to work that out.

Cynabuns ago

Well done, sir.

Snit_from_YTV ago

So internet censorship is a myth? Because it's not government doing it?

Voatdead ago

Uhhh, censorship doesn't have to come from government to be censorship. Censorship is ANY constraint to free speech. Account restrictions from down votes is a constraint.

As I explain here.

http://picosong.com/NAnW

...