He wasn't taking away anyone's rights or affecting any class of immigrants permanently
You DONT get to do that without due process. That's the point.
You're exaggerating things to an extreme for absolutely no reasonh
I'm not exagerrating shit .. it was Trump that tried to do an ill advised blanket ban. It was fucking stupid. Period.
Now, he can re-write it and exempt the correct people or EVEN PROVIDE A PATH TO CHALLENGE IT, but they failed to do both. It's easy enough to re-write ... hell they wrote the first one in a week, why haven't they done so. Why are they leaving us in grave, grave, grave danger?
Since you are even ignoring the Cubans he clearly banned in the last week of his Presidency, here is a report made by the Congressional Research Service on January 23rd (nearly a week before Trump even signed his Executive Order) on the "Executive Authority to Exclude Aliens". If you'll turn to page 10 of the 15 page PDF, you can see an official list of all 19 times that Obama banned immigrants, and the stated nature of the ban.
NONE of those was a blanket ban on everyone from the country regardless of whether they hold a green card or visa. Period. If you look, almost every one of those contains the phrase:
Suspending the entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of aliens who have engaged in certain conduct
They are all conditional. Not Trumps, no sir, no exclusions, they even banned green cards, before they didn't, but never changed the EO to affect that. They only provided 'gudiance' from the White House council, whom does not exist in the chain of command. Not the same legally, not.even.close.
Their job is to let the Executive and Legislative branches handle foreign policy while the Judicial branch rules on the laws that affect US citizens.
Their job is to follow the law, and if someone were to say, try to remove someones rights without due process, then they should be enjoined from doing so. Which is exactly what happened. Trump tried to take away the rights of people that immigrated here properly, some having lived here for DECADES and just happen to be out of the country when Trump decided they no longer have rights. That is EXACTLY the kind of Executive abuse the judiciary is supposed to stop.
No, the two 9th circuit courts you're talking about never mentioned the law when they ruled against it, they just said "the administration hasn't granted enough information for me to fully understand it"
No, they said they've provided no evidence. There's a difference. The court was actually rather brutal in their ruling.
the Constitution doesn't grant any rights to people living outside the US, only to US citizens
Yes, it does, and in fact has been held so by the Supreme Court:
More recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Zadvydas v. Davis (2001) that "due process" of the 14th Amendment applies to all aliens in the United States whose presence maybe or is "unlawful, involuntary or transitory."
Read up on the Boston court's ruling on the ban or Texas' Amicus Brief to better understand exactly how the EO perfectly fits into a legal place (just like similar orders did for Clinton 12 times and Obama 19 times, including his last-week push to ban legal Cuban refugees from coming here).
I am very familiar with the case in Boston and the two cases are not the same, nor do they have the same scope. The Boston case is actually quite unimportant, two graduate students. Compared to what was brought by Washingtion and Minnesota, and was also later restrained in Virginia. Possibly other states, as well, but I haven't researched that much further.
The Washingon/Minnesota case is SPECIFICALLY about the rights of people that hold either green cards or visas and were banned from coming to or coming back to the country:
They specifically complain of damage to state university systems “by stranding our university students and faculty overseas,” and say the ban would cost the states tax revenue. They also argue that it is unconstitutional and that there is no evidence it was needed for national security reasons.
I know EXACTLY what is going on in this case.
just like similar orders did for Clinton 12 times and Obama 19 times, including his last-week push to ban legal Cuban refugees from coming here
Obama never banned a soul and I implore you to prove me wrong.
If the results were actually checked with an audit rather than a recount, those irregularities would have been investigated rather than just quickly passed over.
That's a mighty big leap of faith ... so, absolutely ZERO conclusive evidence of massive voter fraud, that's what I expected.
Yes, it was, and SEVERAL courts said so. In fact, that's WHY he's writing a new one instead of continuing to play chicken with the judiciary. Now, you want to know WHY it was unconstitutional? Because he tried to remove the rights of green card and visa holders WITHOUT due process. Had he exempted them, the courts would have had nothing to say. The executive branch is given WIDE latitude with immigration, but they CANNOT ban Legal Permanent Residents(LPRs) without a process for due process. It was a very bold ... and incredibly stupid and uninformed move.
I would have thought YOU folks would want to support the people that immigrated here properly, but nope, you said fuck them too. They'll remember that.
The recount already showed MASSIVE voter fraud in both Wisconsin and Michigan,
No, I don't believe it did. Care to show the results of the investigations that show there was massive voter fraud?
LO fucking L, if that's the case, why were you so worked up about Hillary's email. I feel a bit of hypocrisy coming on ... let me have it.
The immigration EO was to trigger the pre-planned "Muslim ban protest" early, to show off the insanity of the 9th circuit,
Oh, so it was really just a way to scare Americans and get his way? Is that what you are saying? So we aren't really in grave danger?
how should I write this order so that even the most liberal court won't have an issue with it
And yet he's had weeks and hasn't done shit while leaving us in GRAVE GRAVE DANGER. SUCH GRAVE DANGER.
He has already said he is going to be releasing a new EO on the subject next week
If he writes it correctly, no one will have an issue with it. The one he wrote was clearly unconstitutional.
Trump is also pushing for politicians to start recognizing the illegal immigrant problems and pushing for a voter fraud investigation,
My bet is there ain't gonna be a voter fraud investigation. Why you ask? Because they know a) it doesn't exist to the degree that Trump is stating and b) they would lose their talking point when a) becomes obvious. I think they rest of the pubs are smart enough to shut him down on this one, this is a grave danger. If they prove it doesn't exist, that's a huge problem for them.
If Trump is a Goldman Sachs pawn, why was there literally a company rule where they said "if any of our employees donate to Trump's campaign, they will be fired"?
I didn't say he was a GS pawn, I said he filled his cabinet with Goldman Sachs alums:
Why do all of his GS picks have a history of pro-America and anti-globalism?
LO fucking L [citation needed]
If Trump's cabinet really is in "chaos",
Two things .... Flynn and immigration EO. Both were an absolute fucking disaster. And that's just in the first three weeks.
"National Security issue"? You mean "a member of an incoming administration speaking with members of a foreign government"?
No, I mean conducting National Security related discussions in front of the general fucking public(as in the picture previously posted).
Everything is going just as I planned, no need to worry about all this fake news, trust me.
No, he's was like, look an adoring fan, let me give them a smile. I think they like me. They probably know of my YUGE electoral college victory, biggest since Reagan .....
That may have been something extremely unique, something never seen before in the face of mankind. It was a historic and defining moment for the whole world.
He has shown to the world that the fake news media and their lies can be defeated, can be mocked, and that the people are not alone in their disgust against the MSM.
Srsly, it was amazing, it was exemplary, top notch A+++ perfect performance. He managed to do newsroom bantz, something that most presidents cannot do, he fucking did it. With this conference he once more managed to drag the hearts and minds of the whole nation to his side. Whatever stragglers were left there are probably picked up by now.
It was amazing.
Do we even deserve someone like him? An actually capable person at the helm of a position that needs a capable person such as him?
Heonestly just comes across as a simple man. Boastful? Yes. But simple and focused on making business in America better. Focusing on building and repairing the "mess" in this country and the world. He's right: everything is negative. And thats fine if the media runs negative stories about this admin if they screw up, do something wrong or bad, but the negativity is based on nothing. Either straight up lies or tiny things blown out of proportion. Is Trump 100% transparent? No, he obviously dances around some questions and isnt telling the whole story, but that is how classified info works. We all appreciated the leaks when they showed us how terrible Cliton and the Dems are, but that doesnt make them less illegal, but thats on Hilary for doing such a bad job. The leaks now are an indide job, and the info being leaked is being twisted to specifically fit a narative that Trump and team are Russian pawns. Its illegal activity being used to spread lies and rumors, not illegal activity exposing illegal activity for the common good.
HUGE POSITIVE UPLIFT!! America's President, Donald J Trump, is giving the BEST speech UPDATING the ppl on EVERYTHING while setting the record straight!
In other words, it is filled with lies and you are stupid enough to believe it.
Vote accordingly, /u/junesunflower and /u/cancer_patient are actively pushing the anti-Trump rhetoric. I'm fairly certain they are part of the new wave of leftys that have recently started showing up to FUD VOAT. Don't let them get you worked up, just vote and move on.
Ah, I don't get worked up. I just like getting more specific information than broad strokes generalizations. By doing that you can make a judgement or have an actual conversation.
Your response to anyone who disagrees with you is plugging your ears and writing in capslock. You're a 1 month old account pretending like you run this place.
How about you learn to take criticism, but until then leave the adults to the grown up talk, ya?
Trump may be our last true hope, but he's a shit public speaker. His speech writing staff ought to sit him down and teach him the basics of rhetoric and oratory. How you say a thing is nearly as important as the what.
Pretty much. More than once, especially during the presidential debates, I saw him gear up for a kill-shot of one kind or another towards Hillary or the press and then --- he just languidly stops with a lame "you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, people all of the country tell me".
Hmm, I agree that he isn't some great literary speach maker. However, he talks to the people on their level and not from some high professor podium level.
I'm not an Obama fan, but I did like listening to his speaches. However, none of them stirred anything in me besides multitudes of "really?". While Trump receives barely passing g grades academically but gets me wanting to see how he'll implement all his bravado statements.
"Let me tell you something, I know this guy, he's a great guy, fantastic guy, I know him well, he'll do a great job, let me tell you, a fantastic job."
But we love him anyway. He's the only person in my lifetime that has taken on the establishment and won, and in the USA no less. And the bitchslapping he gave the media today was delightful. I've never seen a politician with the balls to do something like that in real life. Things like this only happen in films. You're right in that he may not be a great orator, but he's more genuine than any other politician out there, and that's the reason people love him.
You better believe it.!!
I mean...Are you kidding me? They think we have short memories but we all now how the press gave Hilary quesitons.
This leak is also turning on the Libs big time
Thank you, and holy fuck did he kick the everloving shit out of the cucked media. Called the fuck out, damn that's inspiring!
He told it like it is, none of this politician formatted stuttering "if if if if if if if..." He just came out and said it, from the heart & with common fucking sense. That's fucking refreshing, a non politician in the white house.
I DARE SOMEONE FIND SOMETHING NEGATIVE AFTER THIS SPEECH.
IF YOU CAN, THEN YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED YOUR LITHIUM.
What do you think guys? Whats your favorite part?
No one who watched a single one of his speeches during the campaign has been scammed, since he declared absolute loyalty toward Israel whenever the issue came up.
My sense is that he does fully support Israel, and that he also (unlike any other president in recent memory) puts America first.
At the beginning I was blatantly anti-Trump, then I was slowly swayed by Trump throughout the election season then inevitably ended up voting for him. You're entirely right though, I along with many others were outright scammed. We should've known better that only people with high level connections can receive high level positions.
I think a lot of it fell back on hopes of having an actual change. Now though I'm kind of worried what the future may hold.. For example Obama passed huge spying abilities to many agencies right before leaving office and now I feel this was something intentionally done to give Trump more power without many people noticing amidst the political chaos.
Trump very well may be the controversial president needed to enact all the FEMA/police state agenda that has been talked about and set into place the last decade under the guise of fighting "radical Islamic terrorism." I have a feeling the future is going to bring a shit ton of chaos
We should've known better that only people with high level connections can receive high level positions.
And then he filled his cabinet full of fucking globalist elites and Goldman Sachs alums ... it's been amazing study in hypocrisy.
Trump very well may be the controversial president needed to enact all the FEMA/police state agenda that has been talked about and set into place the last decade under the guise of fighting "radical Islamic terrorism."
That's a frightening thought that has crossed my mind as well.
I have a feeling the future is going to bring a shit ton of chaos
It would appear chaos is his management style, as long as during that chaos, he can find the camera:
Shit is hitting the fan, National Security issue and Trump looks around for the person with a cell phone and fucking smiles at them. All his wants is everyone's attention, and I'm afraid of what he will do to get it.
p0ssum ago
You DONT get to do that without due process. That's the point.
I'm not exagerrating shit .. it was Trump that tried to do an ill advised blanket ban. It was fucking stupid. Period.
Now, he can re-write it and exempt the correct people or EVEN PROVIDE A PATH TO CHALLENGE IT, but they failed to do both. It's easy enough to re-write ... hell they wrote the first one in a week, why haven't they done so. Why are they leaving us in grave, grave, grave danger?
p0ssum ago
NONE of those was a blanket ban on everyone from the country regardless of whether they hold a green card or visa. Period. If you look, almost every one of those contains the phrase:
They are all conditional. Not Trumps, no sir, no exclusions, they even banned green cards, before they didn't, but never changed the EO to affect that. They only provided 'gudiance' from the White House council, whom does not exist in the chain of command. Not the same legally, not.even.close.
Their job is to follow the law, and if someone were to say, try to remove someones rights without due process, then they should be enjoined from doing so. Which is exactly what happened. Trump tried to take away the rights of people that immigrated here properly, some having lived here for DECADES and just happen to be out of the country when Trump decided they no longer have rights. That is EXACTLY the kind of Executive abuse the judiciary is supposed to stop.
JoJoVoat ago
isnt it refreshing to have a potus that speaks and doesnt say 2 words, take a break, 4 words, think abo8t it..,. lol
cancer_patient ago
You can't read very well, can you?
p0ssum ago
No, they said they've provided no evidence. There's a difference. The court was actually rather brutal in their ruling.
Yes, it does, and in fact has been held so by the Supreme Court:
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/255281-yes-illegal-aliens-have-constitutional-rights
So, you're wrong there. Period.
I am very familiar with the case in Boston and the two cases are not the same, nor do they have the same scope. The Boston case is actually quite unimportant, two graduate students. Compared to what was brought by Washingtion and Minnesota, and was also later restrained in Virginia. Possibly other states, as well, but I haven't researched that much further.
The Washingon/Minnesota case is SPECIFICALLY about the rights of people that hold either green cards or visas and were banned from coming to or coming back to the country:
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-live-updates-9th-circuit-arguments-read-washington-and-minnesota-s-1486498516-htmlstory.html
I know EXACTLY what is going on in this case.
Obama never banned a soul and I implore you to prove me wrong.
That's a mighty big leap of faith ... so, absolutely ZERO conclusive evidence of massive voter fraud, that's what I expected.
eyeswim ago
GO UNCLE TRUMP!!! 61 MILLION AMERICAN'S VOTED FOR YOU AND BELIEVE IN YOU!!!!
p0ssum ago
Yes, it was, and SEVERAL courts said so. In fact, that's WHY he's writing a new one instead of continuing to play chicken with the judiciary. Now, you want to know WHY it was unconstitutional? Because he tried to remove the rights of green card and visa holders WITHOUT due process. Had he exempted them, the courts would have had nothing to say. The executive branch is given WIDE latitude with immigration, but they CANNOT ban Legal Permanent Residents(LPRs) without a process for due process. It was a very bold ... and incredibly stupid and uninformed move.
I would have thought YOU folks would want to support the people that immigrated here properly, but nope, you said fuck them too. They'll remember that.
No, I don't believe it did. Care to show the results of the investigations that show there was massive voter fraud?
New_years_day ago
lmao, same here
p0ssum ago
LO fucking L, if that's the case, why were you so worked up about Hillary's email. I feel a bit of hypocrisy coming on ... let me have it.
Oh, so it was really just a way to scare Americans and get his way? Is that what you are saying? So we aren't really in grave danger?
And yet he's had weeks and hasn't done shit while leaving us in GRAVE GRAVE DANGER. SUCH GRAVE DANGER.
If he writes it correctly, no one will have an issue with it. The one he wrote was clearly unconstitutional.
My bet is there ain't gonna be a voter fraud investigation. Why you ask? Because they know a) it doesn't exist to the degree that Trump is stating and b) they would lose their talking point when a) becomes obvious. I think they rest of the pubs are smart enough to shut him down on this one, this is a grave danger. If they prove it doesn't exist, that's a huge problem for them.
p0ssum ago
I didn't say he was a GS pawn, I said he filled his cabinet with Goldman Sachs alums:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-adds-goldman-sachs-executive-administration-article-1.2944943
He hired 6 of them. That's a fact. Period.
LO fucking L [citation needed]
Two things .... Flynn and immigration EO. Both were an absolute fucking disaster. And that's just in the first three weeks.
No, I mean conducting National Security related discussions in front of the general fucking public(as in the picture previously posted).
No, he's was like, look an adoring fan, let me give them a smile. I think they like me. They probably know of my YUGE electoral college victory, biggest since Reagan .....
pr0nw4r ago
That may have been something extremely unique, something never seen before in the face of mankind. It was a historic and defining moment for the whole world.
He has shown to the world that the fake news media and their lies can be defeated, can be mocked, and that the people are not alone in their disgust against the MSM.
Srsly, it was amazing, it was exemplary, top notch A+++ perfect performance. He managed to do newsroom bantz, something that most presidents cannot do, he fucking did it. With this conference he once more managed to drag the hearts and minds of the whole nation to his side. Whatever stragglers were left there are probably picked up by now.
It was amazing.
Do we even deserve someone like him? An actually capable person at the helm of a position that needs a capable person such as him?
Nightwise ago
You spell like shit.
Crow_T_robocop ago
Heonestly just comes across as a simple man. Boastful? Yes. But simple and focused on making business in America better. Focusing on building and repairing the "mess" in this country and the world. He's right: everything is negative. And thats fine if the media runs negative stories about this admin if they screw up, do something wrong or bad, but the negativity is based on nothing. Either straight up lies or tiny things blown out of proportion. Is Trump 100% transparent? No, he obviously dances around some questions and isnt telling the whole story, but that is how classified info works. We all appreciated the leaks when they showed us how terrible Cliton and the Dems are, but that doesnt make them less illegal, but thats on Hilary for doing such a bad job. The leaks now are an indide job, and the info being leaked is being twisted to specifically fit a narative that Trump and team are Russian pawns. Its illegal activity being used to spread lies and rumors, not illegal activity exposing illegal activity for the common good.
junesunflower ago
In other words, it is filled with lies and you are stupid enough to believe it.
WhiteRonin ago
Filed with lies ... OK.
Like what?
smifft ago
Vote accordingly, /u/junesunflower and /u/cancer_patient are actively pushing the anti-Trump rhetoric. I'm fairly certain they are part of the new wave of leftys that have recently started showing up to FUD VOAT. Don't let them get you worked up, just vote and move on.
WhiteRonin ago
Ah, I don't get worked up. I just like getting more specific information than broad strokes generalizations. By doing that you can make a judgement or have an actual conversation.
cancer_patient ago
Your response to anyone who disagrees with you is plugging your ears and writing in capslock. You're a 1 month old account pretending like you run this place.
How about you learn to take criticism, but until then leave the adults to the grown up talk, ya?
junesunflower ago
Hmnmm
OK
Helios-Apollo ago
He told us we'd get tired of winning.
WhiteRonin ago
Ouch! Bingo!
Helios-Apollo ago
Trump may be our last true hope, but he's a shit public speaker. His speech writing staff ought to sit him down and teach him the basics of rhetoric and oratory. How you say a thing is nearly as important as the what.
WhiteRonin ago
You mean ... Like ... Including pauses ... Or ... BIG WORDS ... And .. talking to the people ... In more pauses ... ?
Helios-Apollo ago
Pretty much. More than once, especially during the presidential debates, I saw him gear up for a kill-shot of one kind or another towards Hillary or the press and then --- he just languidly stops with a lame "you know it, I know it, everybody knows it, people all of the country tell me".
He's giving me oratorical blue balls.
WhiteRonin ago
Hmm, I agree that he isn't some great literary speach maker. However, he talks to the people on their level and not from some high professor podium level.
I'm not an Obama fan, but I did like listening to his speaches. However, none of them stirred anything in me besides multitudes of "really?". While Trump receives barely passing g grades academically but gets me wanting to see how he'll implement all his bravado statements.
analfaveto ago
"Let me tell you something, I know this guy, he's a great guy, fantastic guy, I know him well, he'll do a great job, let me tell you, a fantastic job."
But we love him anyway. He's the only person in my lifetime that has taken on the establishment and won, and in the USA no less. And the bitchslapping he gave the media today was delightful. I've never seen a politician with the balls to do something like that in real life. Things like this only happen in films. You're right in that he may not be a great orator, but he's more genuine than any other politician out there, and that's the reason people love him.
ScreaminMime ago
They've needed it for a long long time.
JoJoVoat ago
You better believe it.!! I mean...Are you kidding me? They think we have short memories but we all now how the press gave Hilary quesitons.
This leak is also turning on the Libs big time
aria_taint ago
It was fun watching Trump dick slap the MSM.
Kannibal ago
Trump Friendly NY Post joins fake media, calls it a Rant
http://nypost.com/2017/02/16/trump-goes-on-rambling-rant-against-the-media/
peacegnome ago
he even called it:
kcamstar ago
It was funny when he called them the "Failing" NYT.
Kannibal ago
especially since the NYT has been doing great since the election.
Trump is good for the NYT
fetuspizza ago
Goddamn Acosta the cuck, sitting in the back. He's a hack with those questions. He's digging his own grave with every question.
Deathstalker ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVVTb3nZssQ
antiliberalsociety ago
Thank you, and holy fuck did he kick the everloving shit out of the cucked media. Called the fuck out, damn that's inspiring!
He told it like it is, none of this politician formatted stuttering "if if if if if if if..." He just came out and said it, from the heart & with common fucking sense. That's fucking refreshing, a non politician in the white house.
JoJoVoat ago
Thank you!
split ago
Were you watching the same thing I was? What I saw was a bunch of delusional ranting by a 70 year old Fox News viewer with a persecution complex
peacegnome ago
could you project more?
ScreaminMime ago
Guess we weren't watching the same thing...
Grifter42 ago
Go fuck yourself, pal.
Deathstalker ago
It was earlier.
New_years_day ago
This man is a fucking machine. He is a leader men and women can look up to.
Myohmy_eatsomepie ago
Speech starts at 60:35
JoJoVoat ago
Thank you !
peacegnome ago
Link for the lazy
JoJoVoat ago
Thank you
JoJoVoat ago
"I inherited a mess"- President DJT
I DARE SOMEONE FIND SOMETHING NEGATIVE AFTER THIS SPEECH.
IF YOU CAN, THEN YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED YOUR LITHIUM. What do you think guys? Whats your favorite part?
cancer_patient ago
Yesterday Trump publicly declared his complete devotion to serving Israel.
Trump is a zionist puppet and showed his true colors yesterday.. WE'VE BEEN SCAMMED PEOPLE.
larkan ago
No one who watched a single one of his speeches during the campaign has been scammed, since he declared absolute loyalty toward Israel whenever the issue came up.
My sense is that he does fully support Israel, and that he also (unlike any other president in recent memory) puts America first.
p0ssum ago
YOU'VE been scammed some of us told you that shit long ago.
cancer_patient ago
At the beginning I was blatantly anti-Trump, then I was slowly swayed by Trump throughout the election season then inevitably ended up voting for him. You're entirely right though, I along with many others were outright scammed. We should've known better that only people with high level connections can receive high level positions.
I think a lot of it fell back on hopes of having an actual change. Now though I'm kind of worried what the future may hold.. For example Obama passed huge spying abilities to many agencies right before leaving office and now I feel this was something intentionally done to give Trump more power without many people noticing amidst the political chaos.
Trump very well may be the controversial president needed to enact all the FEMA/police state agenda that has been talked about and set into place the last decade under the guise of fighting "radical Islamic terrorism." I have a feeling the future is going to bring a shit ton of chaos
p0ssum ago
And then he filled his cabinet full of fucking globalist elites and Goldman Sachs alums ... it's been amazing study in hypocrisy.
That's a frightening thought that has crossed my mind as well.
It would appear chaos is his management style, as long as during that chaos, he can find the camera:
http://www.readingthepictures.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Trump-Mar-a-lago-Abe-North-Korea-Ebain529-600x600.jpg
Shit is hitting the fan, National Security issue and Trump looks around for the person with a cell phone and fucking smiles at them. All his wants is everyone's attention, and I'm afraid of what he will do to get it.
Shekelstein6M ago
Hitler inherited a mess, therefore... TRUMP WANTS TO KILL 6 BILLION JEWS!
Firevine ago
Yay!