Vampyregod ago

Unless you are born from an illegal immigrant

kestrel9 ago

Of course, Democrats want their new voting block (illegal immigrants) to believe that they really truly care about people.

learningthetruth ago

Infuriating.

vonbacon ago

Actually their right your only considered a person in the eyes of the goverment when you are given a birth certificate and become yet another tax slave.

kestrel9 ago

Democrats have made it easier than ever to be a person in their eyes, you just have to vote Democrat every time, preferably several times.

sinclair ago

We have an act that covers this. H.R.2175 - Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002

""Born Alive" is defined as the complete expulsion of an infant at any stage of development that has a heartbeat, pulsation of the umbilical cord, breath, or voluntary muscle movement, no matter if the umbilical cord has been cut or if the expulsion of the infant was natural, induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion."

I feel like this covers the spirit of the law in question. Did we miss something we needed to propose more legislation? How about enforcing the laws on the books? Or do we need more laws?

Pray tell, what's special about this new law they voted on, that failed?

kestrel9 ago

Introduced in House (12/21/2017)

Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act

This bill amends the federal criminal code to require any health care practitioner who is present when a child is born alive following an abortion or attempted abortion to:

  • (1) exercise the same degree of care as reasonably provided to any other child born alive at the same gestational age, and
  • (2) ensure that such child is immediately admitted to a hospital.

The term "born alive" means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut.

Also, a health care practitioner or other employee who has knowledge of a failure to comply with these requirements must immediately report such failure to an appropriate law enforcement agency.

An individual who violates the provisions of this bill is subject to a criminal fine, up to five years in prison, or both.

An individual who commits an overt act that kills a child born alive is subject to criminal prosecution for murder.

The bill bars the criminal prosecution of a mother of a child born alive for conspiracy to violate these provisions, for being an accessory after the fact, or for concealment of felony.

A woman who undergoes an abortion or attempted abortion may file a civil action for damages against an individual who violates this bill.

Based on H.R. 2175 - passed March 12, 2002

H.R. 2175 Passed Senate by unanimous consent July 18, 2002. Defines a "Born alive infant" as "Person, human being, Child, Individual".

Acknowledges human rights of any child born within the United States.

"Born Alive" is defined as the complete expulsion of an infant at any stage of development that has a heartbeat, pulsation of the umbilical cord, breath, or voluntary muscle movement, no matter if the umbilical cord has been cut or if the expulsion of the infant was natural, induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.

Decisions may continue to be made by medical professionals as to whether to resuscitate an infant based on medical efficacy, but not in regard to the legal standing of the patient.

There's no way Democrats will ever agree to a law requiring a baby born alive after an abortion be sent to a hospital for medical care as a protected individual. It will NEVER happen. Too much money to lose in the baby parts chop shop industry. This is how evil our society has become.

think- ago

There's no way Democrats will ever agree to a law requiring a baby born alive after an abortion be sent to a hospital for medical care as a protected individual. It will NEVER happen

Sadly, I think you're right. It's about ideology, and what is even more worrying, about letting those who abort sell baby parts. It's terrible.

kestrel9 ago

It's about money no doubt.

sinclair ago

I think they're worried about the listed consequences. Maybe they are too high risk for them.

think- ago

I think they're worried about the listed consequences.

Which consequences do you mean exactly?

sinclair ago

The punishment values. When you enter into a service, you have to weigh risk/reward. The consequences for fucking up may be too much for them to vote "yes". Speculation.

kestrel9 ago

If requiring that a new born baby who has survived an abortion, be sent to a hospital to afford it the same treatment any other newborn baby would be expected to receive, is too 'risky' for Democrats to support, then screw it, push the "service" onto the black market again. The babies' body parts are already sold there, then everyone could stop pretending it's not a supply chain for not organ trafficking.

sinclair ago

That's not the risky part, it's the consequences for failure to comply. You have to remember, people are sketch to law enforcement because it gets used as a political tool. That's common on both sides. Make sure you're not approaching this emotionally, because it's already settled for them. There already exists a law that meets the spirit of what was asked for in the new bill, just the enforcement isn't as clearly defined.

If the intent was abortion, that means it could never be born alive. They could never keep it alive, because they would have to treat it as a patient. If they got caught, that's another can of worms. This one comes on too strong. So, they canned it.

kestrel9 ago

The failure of this bill to pass reflects the fecklessness of H.R. 2175 when it states it "Acknowledges human rights of any child born in the United States", precisely because, as it now stands, pro abortionist can never reconcile 'the right to a dead baby' vs 'the human rights of any/all babies born alive'

HR 2175 simply stated that babies are considered to be humans that have standing under the law (human rights), and that if the decision is made to not resuscitate, that decision can't be made based on the child not being considered a human with human rights. However, as we've witnessed and more will come out this year, a baby born alive may have rights, but no one is really required to protect those rights under HR 2175.

2000 Planned Parenthood of Central New Jersey v. Farmer

the Farmer Court repudiated New Jersey’s classification of the prohibited procedure as being a ‘‘partial birth,’’ and concluded that a child’s status under the law, regardless of the child’s location, is dependent upon whether the mother intends to abort the child or to give birth. Thus, the Farmer Court stated that, in contrast to an infant whose mother intends to give birth, an infant who is killed during a partial-birth abortion is not entitled to the protections of the law because ‘‘[a] woman seeking an abortion is plainly not seeking to give birth.’’

The logical implications of Carhart and Farmer are both obvious and disturbing. Under the logic of these decisions, once a child is marked for abortion, it is wholly irrelevant whether that child emerges from the womb as a live baby. That child may still be treated as though he or she did not exist, and would not have any rights under the law—no right to receive medical care, to be sustained in life, or to receive any care at all. And if a child who survives an abortion and is born alive would have no claim to the protections of the law, there would, then, be no basis upon which the government may prohibit an abortionist from completely delivering an infant before killing it or allowing it to die. The ‘‘right to abortion,’’ under this logic, means nothing less than the right to a dead baby, no matter where the killing takes place.

H.R. 2175 draws a bright line between the right to abortion— which the Supreme Court has now said includes the right to kill partially-born children—and infanticide, or the killing or criminal neglect of completely born children. The bill clarifies that a bornalive infant’s legal status under Federal law does not depend upon the infant’s gestational age or whether the infant’s birth occurred as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion. If, for example, an infant is born alive at a Federal hospital as a result of a failed abortion attempt, this bill makes clear that the attending physicians and other medical professionals should treat the infant just as they would treat a similarly-situated infant who was born as a result of natural labor.

H.R. 2175 thus affirms, as Professor Hadley Arkes stated in testimony received by the Subcommittee on the Constitution, that every child who is born alive ‘‘has an intrinsic dignity, which must in turn be the source of rights of an intrinsic dignity, which cannot depend then on the interests or convenience of anyone else.’’55 The bill makes clear that a child’s legal status does not depend upon whether anyone happens to want him or her.

But that dignity afforded via HR 2175 has not translated to the reality of how babies born alive are treated or viewed by abortion supporters.

What has been happening in abortion clinics are vile repudiations of HR 2175, and I've yet to hear ANY abortion supporter publically use any language remotely acknowledging even the spirit of HR 2175, much less action. The new law provided a basis of accountability where there has been none. It protects whistleblowers, by requiring they report what's happening. Otherwise they'd be under the pressure from their employers to act contrary to what the law requires to afford human rights to babies born alive.

An individual who violates the provisions of this bill is subject to a criminal fine, up to five years in prison, or both.

That is, for not protecting the human rights of born alive babies and sending them to the hospital. Clinics are now financially vested in selling babies' body parts. They are in no way interested in being accountable for sending their source of income to some hospital instead.

An individual who commits an overt act that kills a child born alive is subject to criminal prosecution for murder.

That is covered under HR 2175, but who could ever be charged for it because the private and unaccountable clinics where abortion is provided, do not send live babies to hospitals. Far and few in between are those kids who managed to get out alive AFTER surviving the abortion.

65Creedmoor ago

Most heathen thing I’ve ever read

truthdemon ago

The personhood IS the creation of the State (a Roman War coporation feeding dollar scrips to other roman pirate corporatiins known as nations...with these personhoods as collateral.social security insuring the Us debt ..u lend ur personhood ie ..NAME to the surety pool known as social security..and the govt , judiciary, police is the administrator of it..it works mainly for the surety pool ..surety pool trumps individual surety... Why? Because u agreed to it..and they have an oath to shift debt or charges onto the individual surety.. Look up legwl defintion of constitutor..it means someone (surety pool administrator) who shifts debt onto a third party ie.the individual that gets charges under various satututes..

How does one get out of this surety game that only ensures that debt gets shifted and thus grows... When the US treasury debt is not reduced ...more statututes are required for the govt to go intonmore debt by generating fines and regulatiins and industries created around it..

The solution is to reduce debt at the tr3asury.. In the case of a parent who wants to protect a child who does not have personhood yet..the parent operating under the sicial securitg name..should use any amount of dollars to reduce debt at the US tressury.. The parent then exercises surety rights over thr US..the parent in effect gets out of the surety pool backinghte debt and takes personal responsibility to reduce the debt.. The job of the surety pool and its administrators is not to reduce debt ..we havent delegated that benefit to the surety pool...its our right to reducr debt.. When we do that as insurer of the US debt ..we indivifually gain surety rights over the US and thr person hood.. Goofle : surety rights We as then beneficiary of the name can claim and instruct the US our debtor, to setoff ie pay all our bills and ee can charge individuals undrr universal jurisdiction (not trustee of it inside the surety pool ,shifting debt into the future onto ournchildrren thereby nnot settling it)

Stattute law.whiich is the codenfor the administrators.of.the surety pool.is not binding on us..as we reduced debt and turned the US into our debtor