That's exactly how memory works. Especially in kids. Its extremely easy to plant false memories into people if you go over it again and again and again. Kids what to please the adults around so they will always report what a (parent) whats to hear. Sooner than later it become the truth.
No, It wasn't real. McMartin was about media-influenced parents who were weak-minded enough to believe the bullshit fed to them by agenda driven writers. The whole process was helped along by incompetent psychologists who came to the process with a guilty verdict already in their head and guided the kids in that direction by implanting false memories.
More harm was done to those kids trying to convince them they were abused than could have ever been done by actual abuse.
This report is well known as it's a footnote on the Wikipedia article on this case. And this report has not held up well. Stickel is disputed by those who found that the none of the junk under the preschool dates AFTER 1966 when the concrete slab of the Preschool foundation was poured. And there was nothing to support or lines the tunnels which you would need to keep the tunnels from collapsing.
Continued allegations of secret tunnels
In 1990, parents who believed their children had been abused at the preschool hired archeologist E. Gary Stickel to investigate the site. In May 1990, Stickel claimed he found evidence of tunnels, consistent with the children's accounts, under the McMartin Preschool using ground-penetrating radar.[39]
Others have disagreed with Stickel's conclusions. John Earl wrote in 1995 that the concrete slab floor was undisturbed except for a small patch where the sewer line was tapped into. Once the slab was removed, there was no sign of any materials to line or hold up any tunnels, and the concrete floor would have made it impossible for the defendants to fill in any tunnels once the abuse investigation began. The article concluded that disturbed soil under the slab was from the sewer line and construction fill buried under the slab before it was poured. Further, Earl noted that some fill from beneath the concrete slab was dated to the year 1940.[16]
W. Joseph Wyatt's 2002 report concluded that the "tunnels" under the preschool were more plausibly explained as a rubbish pit used by the owners of the site before the preschool's construction in 1966. Materials found during the excavation included bottles, tin cans, plywood, inner tubes, as well as the former owner's old mail box. Only three small items found near the edge of the concrete slab were dated after 1966, which Wyatt suggested were most likely dragged into the pit by rats or other scavengers. Moreover, Wyatt speculated that Stickel's conclusions were colored by his collaboration with the parents of the McMartin children.[40]
Notice how the human dung known as @Are_we_sure doesn't even mention the true patriot Mr. Ted Gunderson, who did his own dig at the tunnel site, and found 100% evidence of the tunnels not only existing, but he found satanic markings, as well as a disney toy bag from the exact same time frame that the kids were allegedly being taken down there. The kids also said they were taken to a nearby airport and flown into the mountains, and what else did Gunderson find? A house in the mountains near the airport that had been recently torched to the ground.
Gunderson's an absolute mess. And I didn't remember he was involved in McMartin, until reading one of the documents mentioned in the part I just tweeted.
So pre-school kids were routinely flown on planes and no one of them mentions this to their parents. Literally unbelievable.
The entire investigation started because one of the kids who attended the PreSchool was taken to the doctor by his mother, because she said he was "behaving strangely." The doctors found that he had a torn rectum and that's when he said that this guy Ray Buckey, the son of Peggy McMartin Buckey, raped him while he was at school. The school board then sent out a letter to parents in the area, urging anyone with information--or similar experiences--to come forward. Then the flood gates opened, and thousands of children (THOUSANDS) began to come forward with stories of Satanic Ritual Abuse. Children who never met or knew each other in any way were all coming up with stories about adults dressing up in robes and forcing them to participate in pedophilia and sacrifice-oriented rituals.
Americans were slightly more aware of Satanism at this time, because Christianity hadn't been completely debased and destroyed yet, and GERALDO RIVERA EVEN DID AN ENTIRE 1.5HR SPECIAL ABOUT IT ON DAYTIME TELEVISION, so the McMartin case was big news. Then the Pedo Satanists stepped in, and they created the term "Satanic Panic," which you still hear today. Basically their argument was that the person who interviewed the children used "obscure" techniques, and basically it boiled down to the fact that the person was not a government-approved LACKEY. So they re-interviewed the kids with a "qualified" therapist, and that's when the "they kids are just making this up" narrative came into place. These children literally had mind control performed on them in order to get them to retract their stories. Then people started pushing the bizarre narrative that "the parents told the kids to make up these stories so they could make money."
Yeah. That makes total sense, you dipshit. A bunch of parents who never met each other told their kids to make up stories about teachers dressing in robes and forcing them to fuck each other and drink animal blood, because somehow that was going to make them rich. Fuck anyone who is stupid enough to actually believe that.
Do not be swayed or made to feel bad by people like @Are_we_sure. People like him are nothing but boot-lickers who are so-called "experts" in whatever the mainstream media says is the true version of events. It's like a monkey being inside a cage, but he knows all the ins-and-outs, all the intricacies of the cage, and it makes him feel like he's smarter than everyone else for knowing such useless information. Whereas us, the PG researchers, we are the ones who actually SEE the cage for what it is, a prison.
The entire investigation started because one of the kids who attended the PreSchool was taken to the doctor by his mother, because she said he was "behaving strangely." The doctors found that he had a torn rectum and that's when he said that this guy Ray Buckey, the son of Peggy McMartin Buckey, raped him while he was at school.
This did not happen.
This is not how the investigation began. Judy Jones went to the cops, not her doctor. She said her child was sexually abused by Ray Buckley not that he was acting strangely. He bore no symptoms of abuse let alone a torn rectum. The symptoms was his butt was itchy. She was a paranoid schizophrenic they later found out and she made many, many, many accusations of her son being molested.
The school board then sent out a letter to parents in the area, urging anyone with information--or similar experiences--to come forward
The cops did this and it was a terrible idea.
Then the flood gates opened, and thousands of children came forward
This did not happen either. What happened was all the parents got worried and brought their kids in to be interviewed by the social workers the cops hired. This was a disaster. Here's one of the children recounting the interview styles as a 30 year old.
My stepbrothers and stepsisters and a half-brother and half-sister went to McMartin. So did I. I only remember being happy there. I never had any bad feelings about the school--no bad auras or vibes or anything. Even to this day, talking about it or seeing pictures or artwork that I did at McMartin never brings any bad feelings. All my memories are positive.
The thing I remember about the case was how it took over the whole city and consumed our whole family. My parents would ask questions: "Did the teachers ever do things to you?" They talked about Ray Buckey, whom I had never met. I don't even have any recollection of him attending the school when I was going there.
The first time I went to CII [Children's Institute International, now known as Children's Institute, Inc., a respected century-old L.A. County child welfare organization where approximately 400 former McMartin children were interviewed and given genital exams, and where many were diagnosed as abuse victims], we drove there, our whole family. I remember waiting ... for hours while my brothers and sisters were being interviewed. I don't remember how many days or if it was just one day, but my memory tells me it was weeks, it seemed so long. It was an ordeal. I remember thinking to myself, "I'm not going to get out of here unless I tell them what they want to hear."
We were examined by a doctor. I took my clothes off and lay down on the table. They checked my butt, my penis. There was a room with a lot of toys and stuffed animals and dolls. The dolls were pasty white and had hair where the private parts were. They wanted us to take off their clothes. It was just really weird.
I remember them asking extremely uncomfortable questions about whether Ray touched me and about all the teachers and what they did--and I remember telling them nothing happened to me. I remember them almost giggling and laughing, saying, "Oh, we know these things happened to you. Why don't you just go ahead and tell us? Use these dolls if you're scared."
Anytime I would give them an answer that they didn't like, they would ask again and encourage me to give them the answer they were looking for. It was really obvious what they wanted. I know the types of language they used on me: things like I was smart, or I could help the other kids who were scared.
I felt uncomfortable and a little ashamed that I was being dishonest. But at the same time, being the type of person I was, whatever my parents wanted me to do, I would do. And I thought they wanted me to help protect my little brother and sister who went to McMartin.
Later my parents asked if the teachers took pictures and played games with us. Games like "Naked Movie Star." I remember my mom asking me. She would ask if they sang the song, and I didn't know what she was talking about, so she would sing something like, "Who you are, you're a naked movie star." I'm pretty sure that's the first time I ever heard that: from my mom. After she asked me a hundred times, I probably said yeah, I did play that game.
My parents were very encouraging when I said that things happened. It was almost like saying things happened was going to help get these people in jail and stop them from what they were trying to do to kids. Also, there were so many kids saying all these things happened that you didn't want to be the one who said nothing did. You wouldn't be believed if you said that.
I remember feeling like they didn't pick just anybody--they picked me because I had a good memory of what they wanted, and they could rely on me to do a good job. I don't think they thought I was telling the truth, just that I was telling the same stories consistently, doing what needed to be done to get these teachers judged guilty. I felt special. Important.
It always seemed like I was thinking. I would listen to what my parents would say if they were talking, or to what someone else would say if we were being questioned at the police station or anywhere. And I would repeat things. Or if it wasn't a story I'd heard, I would think of something in my head. I would try to think of the worst thing possible that would be harmful to a child. I remember once I said that if you had a cut, instead of putting a Band-Aid on it, the McMartin teachers would put on dirt, then put the Band-Aid over the dirt. That was just something in my head that was bad. I just thought of it and told [the investigators].
I think I got the satanic details by picturing our church. We went to American Martyrs, which was a huge Catholic church. Every Sunday we had to go, and Mass would last an hour, hour and a half. None of us wanted to go: It was kicking and screaming all the way there. Sitting, standing, sitting, standing. What I would do was picture the altar, pews and stained-glass windows, and if [investigators] said, "Describe an altar," I would describe the one in our church. Or instead of, "There was a priest in a green suit"--someone who was real--I would say, "A man dressed in red as a cult member." From going to church you know that God is good, and the devil is bad and has horns and is about evil and red and blood. I'd just throw a twist in there with Satan and devil-worshipping.
I remember going in our van with all my brothers and sisters and driving to airports and houses and being asked if we had been [abused in] these places. I remember telling people [that the McMartin teachers] took us to Harry's Meat Market, and describing what I thought the market was like. I had never been in there before, and I was fairly certain I was going to get in trouble for what I was saying because it probably was not accurate. I imagined someone would say, "They don't have that kind of freezer there." And they did say that. But then someone said, "Well, they could have changed it." It was like anything and everything I said would be believed.
Also the number of children was 360, not thousands.
OMG, you're citing Geraldo Riveria.
It was not that the parents were telling children to make up these stories. The parents were genuinely worried and concerned for their children, but by NOT believing what the children said the first time, the children eventually understood only one answer was correct and that was what the adults wanted to hear. And with young children if you ask them to say they did something over and over and over again, they will not be able able to distinguish if that was real or imagination. The mass child abuse cases went away once we understood how children respond and how to interview children.
I'm with you. I know it happened and personally knew a kid who was abused there. It devastated him and his whole family. It really pisses me off when stupid fucks say this has been "discredited" as "satanic panic". This shit is real!
Looky here, a shill defending satanists by saying SRA doesn't happen in tunnels. Typical of leftists.
Feel free to tear him a new one. Reply to him and unleash every last bit of rage and hate you have from your experience and lash out at the shill piece of shit.
Filth like Are We Sure is are every bit as part of the problem when it comes to SRA victims.
Yeah, like they are going to abuse in the middle of a turnpike? These people are very brilliant and they know how to cover up their crimes and they do it very well. They also have all the necessary people involved, attorneys, doctors, undertakers etc. I can name them all, those that were part of my generational abuse
Hey, just wanted to create a post with a link to the actual archeological report of the McMartin Preschool site, possible location of satanic ritual abuse in the 80s. The report is on a super obscure website, thanks so much to Jobew1 for finding it!! Would be a really good idea to archive this, and save this to pdf, external HD etc etc in case it magically disappears. Could be a real important find...
3141592653 ago
Must-read article on mcmartin that i just found: http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/3489-becoming-an-active-audience.html
Lunger ago
That whole McMartin thing was bullshit. The kids were coached on what to say until they believed it themselves.
3141592653 ago
No. Thats not what happened. And that's not how memory works
Lunger ago
That's exactly how memory works. Especially in kids. Its extremely easy to plant false memories into people if you go over it again and again and again. Kids what to please the adults around so they will always report what a (parent) whats to hear. Sooner than later it become the truth.
Replete a lie often enough....
3141592653 ago
Not with childhood sexual abuse
Lunger ago
What are you basing that on? Your months of internet pizza-gate investigation?
3141592653 ago
18+ years of research and professional work. Very extensive. Especially on this and related topics.
Lunger ago
Then you should know better.
PedoStomper ago
If that's really what you believe, why the fuck are you here? Go back to bed, because you're clearly completely asleep.
Lunger ago
Not everything is Pizza related.
3141592653 ago
Mcmartin abuse is real.
Lunger ago
No!
No, It wasn't real. McMartin was about media-influenced parents who were weak-minded enough to believe the bullshit fed to them by agenda driven writers. The whole process was helped along by incompetent psychologists who came to the process with a guilty verdict already in their head and guided the kids in that direction by implanting false memories.
More harm was done to those kids trying to convince them they were abused than could have ever been done by actual abuse.
Stick to what's real.
3141592653 ago
That is what the False Memory Foundation wants us tp believe. Pro-child abuse and anti-child rights
Are_we_sure ago
This report is well known as it's a footnote on the Wikipedia article on this case. And this report has not held up well. Stickel is disputed by those who found that the none of the junk under the preschool dates AFTER 1966 when the concrete slab of the Preschool foundation was poured. And there was nothing to support or lines the tunnels which you would need to keep the tunnels from collapsing.
Shizy ago
Oh, well, if it's in Wikipedia....
This is really beneath you bro!!!
Are_we_sure ago
There's no tunnels at McMartin. There was no a use at McMartin.
Shizy ago
Yes there was
3141592653 ago
Wikipedia is notorious for covering up this Exact Topic. Last place to trust on this
PedoStomper ago
Notice how the human dung known as @Are_we_sure doesn't even mention the true patriot Mr. Ted Gunderson, who did his own dig at the tunnel site, and found 100% evidence of the tunnels not only existing, but he found satanic markings, as well as a disney toy bag from the exact same time frame that the kids were allegedly being taken down there. The kids also said they were taken to a nearby airport and flown into the mountains, and what else did Gunderson find? A house in the mountains near the airport that had been recently torched to the ground.
3141592653 ago
Yes yes yes. The tunnels were real. No doubt. The abuse happened. Thanks for being a speaker of truth on this important issue.
PedoStomper ago
I will never stop speaking truth, even when every other person on the planet says "You are wrong."
3141592653 ago
Right on
Are_we_sure ago
Gunderson's an absolute mess. And I didn't remember he was involved in McMartin, until reading one of the documents mentioned in the part I just tweeted.
So pre-school kids were routinely flown on planes and no one of them mentions this to their parents. Literally unbelievable.
PedoStomper ago
The entire investigation started because one of the kids who attended the PreSchool was taken to the doctor by his mother, because she said he was "behaving strangely." The doctors found that he had a torn rectum and that's when he said that this guy Ray Buckey, the son of Peggy McMartin Buckey, raped him while he was at school. The school board then sent out a letter to parents in the area, urging anyone with information--or similar experiences--to come forward. Then the flood gates opened, and thousands of children (THOUSANDS) began to come forward with stories of Satanic Ritual Abuse. Children who never met or knew each other in any way were all coming up with stories about adults dressing up in robes and forcing them to participate in pedophilia and sacrifice-oriented rituals.
Americans were slightly more aware of Satanism at this time, because Christianity hadn't been completely debased and destroyed yet, and GERALDO RIVERA EVEN DID AN ENTIRE 1.5HR SPECIAL ABOUT IT ON DAYTIME TELEVISION, so the McMartin case was big news. Then the Pedo Satanists stepped in, and they created the term "Satanic Panic," which you still hear today. Basically their argument was that the person who interviewed the children used "obscure" techniques, and basically it boiled down to the fact that the person was not a government-approved LACKEY. So they re-interviewed the kids with a "qualified" therapist, and that's when the "they kids are just making this up" narrative came into place. These children literally had mind control performed on them in order to get them to retract their stories. Then people started pushing the bizarre narrative that "the parents told the kids to make up these stories so they could make money."
Yeah. That makes total sense, you dipshit. A bunch of parents who never met each other told their kids to make up stories about teachers dressing in robes and forcing them to fuck each other and drink animal blood, because somehow that was going to make them rich. Fuck anyone who is stupid enough to actually believe that.
Do not be swayed or made to feel bad by people like @Are_we_sure. People like him are nothing but boot-lickers who are so-called "experts" in whatever the mainstream media says is the true version of events. It's like a monkey being inside a cage, but he knows all the ins-and-outs, all the intricacies of the cage, and it makes him feel like he's smarter than everyone else for knowing such useless information. Whereas us, the PG researchers, we are the ones who actually SEE the cage for what it is, a prison.
Are_we_sure ago
This did not happen.
This is not how the investigation began. Judy Jones went to the cops, not her doctor. She said her child was sexually abused by Ray Buckley not that he was acting strangely. He bore no symptoms of abuse let alone a torn rectum. The symptoms was his butt was itchy. She was a paranoid schizophrenic they later found out and she made many, many, many accusations of her son being molested.
The cops did this and it was a terrible idea.
This did not happen either. What happened was all the parents got worried and brought their kids in to be interviewed by the social workers the cops hired. This was a disaster. Here's one of the children recounting the interview styles as a 30 year old.
Also the number of children was 360, not thousands.
OMG, you're citing Geraldo Riveria.
It was not that the parents were telling children to make up these stories. The parents were genuinely worried and concerned for their children, but by NOT believing what the children said the first time, the children eventually understood only one answer was correct and that was what the adults wanted to hear. And with young children if you ask them to say they did something over and over and over again, they will not be able able to distinguish if that was real or imagination. The mass child abuse cases went away once we understood how children respond and how to interview children.
PedoStomper ago
TL;DR You're full of shit. The kids didn't make it up. Please burn to death in agony.
Shizy ago
I'm with you. I know it happened and personally knew a kid who was abused there. It devastated him and his whole family. It really pisses me off when stupid fucks say this has been "discredited" as "satanic panic". This shit is real!
AssFaceSandwich2 ago
Well done. Fuck that POS for sure. Can't wait.
3141592653 ago
Very weak attempt by cover-uppers. The tunnels are real and the abuse happened
darkknight111 ago
@StcharlesSeminary
Looky here, a shill defending satanists by saying SRA doesn't happen in tunnels. Typical of leftists.
Feel free to tear him a new one. Reply to him and unleash every last bit of rage and hate you have from your experience and lash out at the shill piece of shit.
Filth like Are We Sure is are every bit as part of the problem when it comes to SRA victims.
StcharlesSeminary ago
Yeah, like they are going to abuse in the middle of a turnpike? These people are very brilliant and they know how to cover up their crimes and they do it very well. They also have all the necessary people involved, attorneys, doctors, undertakers etc. I can name them all, those that were part of my generational abuse
Are_we_sure ago
Hahahaha. You're a piece of work.
There was no SRA at McMartin, no regular abuse and no tunnels
Shizy ago
Fuck you! Yes there was you dumb fucking troll
3141592653 ago
I agree with you 100% but do not agree that it is a liberals, or left vs right, issue
Surviveandheal15 ago
Hey, just wanted to create a post with a link to the actual archeological report of the McMartin Preschool site, possible location of satanic ritual abuse in the 80s. The report is on a super obscure website, thanks so much to Jobew1 for finding it!! Would be a really good idea to archive this, and save this to pdf, external HD etc etc in case it magically disappears. Could be a real important find...
3141592653 ago
Very important. Thanks so much for sharing. This destroys the argument that it was only ted Gunderson who said the tunnels were real.
That is HUGE!