We need to be especially vigilant and critical of the organizations we belong and contribute to. If any faith leader or believer is suspected, a cover up or silencing is absolutely the wrong path. Kids first, reputations will survive. Honest people have nothing to hide, and should always condemn this crime.
True -- the Vatican is probably as wealthy or wealthier than the British Royals.
And the history of the Church and "Christianity" is extreme (precedent setting) violence, topped off by
the most horrific inventions and innovations of instruments to torture people.
This "Christianity" was brought her by the "invaders" and the same "Crusade" thinking and "Inquisition"
mind-set was used to destroy the native people here -- once again in overwhelming violence against
wise and gentle people. Same for the Africans enslaved here. True to their worldwide Papal Edict re
native "pagan" people and Africans the RCC called for their "enslavement or killing."
Beware of those with the power to label other people --
How many native peoples did the Vatican label as "pagans ... only fit to be fed to the dogs"?
Over centuries how many women did they label "witches" because they were knowledgeable
women who studied plants which are our medicines. And who could treat illness and heal?
Those were the women they burned at the stake for centuries both in Europe and on this land.
VIOLENCE is the key to identifying evil.
The Vatican/RCC also remains a male-supremacist church which does still NOT recognize the
full personhood of females as it recognizes the full personhood of males. They continue to suggest
that our mothers, sisters, aunts, wives are "spiritually inferior" and bar them from authority and ritual
within the Church.
This is a church which underpins Elite-Patriarchy and which has granted license to exploit Nature
and all animal-life via "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature."
We all know this exploitation is wrong and has harmed the planet -- and is also harming humanity
because we are part of Nature.
I think it is important to notice that this violent aspect of Christianity was not present in the original movement. Christians were punished and unaccepted until (about) 400 c.e. When the various creeds were adopted, when the empire began to accept (control) Christendom, that is when it adopted violence and other incongruent teachings. The scriptures even warn of this. It appears that this sort of ‘co-opting’ of the movement was happening to varying decrees even before the deaths of Paul and John (1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Peter 2:1-2). Now we have a lot of symbolism in Christendom, and it is used to control politics and individual thought, sadly.
The original followers of Jesus were JEWS
The original Christians were JEWS
Jesus was a JEW
There is no indication that Jesus was trying to create a new religion.
Jesus was in rebellion against the Old Testament which was written to cement patriarchy.
Jesus was in rebellion against the money-lenders.
And it is likely that Jesus was a RABBI and MARRIED to Mary Magdalene who is considered
Jesus' "Disciple to the Disciples."
The New Testament also has a lot of fingerprints on it as far as control and re-writing.
Editing -- information left out -- info changed -- and a lot of convoluted info.
It's an amazingly violent book and unlikely to have anything to do with true spirituality.
It also works to further patriarchal controls over societies.
Actually, I don't think any Biblical writings were produced until after 400.
The idea that this fakery changed the records of time -- mainly for the purpose of confusion as
far as I can see. We should straighten out the dates and return to the true dates.
Christianity is male-supremacist religion. It's teachings aim to control normal human sexuality ...
not only among their members but throughout all societies.
The Vatican considers democracy its greatest enemy because it protects citizens
from having religion forced upon them. Separation of Church & State guarantees your
right to freedom of thought, freedom of conscience, and free will.
It protects you from any religious organization forcing its beliefs on you.
I agree with much of what you say, however, my point is different from yours. I believe the Bible is a record of humanity ignoring God, and of His followers ignoring and twisting His instruction, again and again; in exactly the violent and patriarchal manner that you described. This pattern continues after Jesus. It is true that Jesus did not create a new religion. He said that he did not come to erase ‘The Law’ (what people call the Old Testament), but to fulfill it. True Christians are not to be tyrants or authoritarians, lording it over others. Those who take the lead are meant to serve, to lay their lives down if necessary. Many times, The scriptures tell us to imitate Jesus. Remember how he washed their feet. He says that it is the Jews that rejected him and their teaching. Archaeological evidence for the Bible’s age has been found in ancient Egyptian trash pits dating back to 100 c.e. The Dead Sea scrolls have a copy of Isaiah that dates to the same period and is virtually the same as the one we have today. History and tradition hold that the Bible writer’s and their message were not received well. Virtually all of them were tortured and killed by the same patriarchal authorities that you and I both are rejecting. The scriptures were later picked up by those seeking to use them as a control device. Throughout history it has been illegal to translate or publish these writings, yet it is still the most popular book in history, written in more than 2,400 languages. However, you will find few, if any religions that actually teaching what the Bible says. For example: Hell? Not literal in the Bible. Trinity? Not In there. Males dominating? Incorrect application (consider the feet washing, also that the scriptures many times appoint the men to first defend the widows and orphans, then their own women and families, lastly themselves). You say that the Christian religions are bad and full of error? I agree with you. But I believe it is because they are ignoring and gatekeeping scripture. I find that humans are often getting God’s messages wrong. Not the fault of the message or messenger, it’s the fault of the humans, especially the ones using the scriptures to get money, shiny hats, power and fancy cars.
At the least you have an open mind so continue on your search for truth.
Your library and internet give you great opportunities to study the history of the world and to find truth.
The Old Testament was written to cement patriarchy.
The New Testament features Jesus -- a Jew, a Rabbi as a rebel fighting the Old Testament,
the downgrading of women, the rise of the money-lenders, etal.
Both versions underpin Elite-patriarchy.
You have to understand that this "Jesus" figure has come around about three dozen times with the
very same story. Check into that.
Actually, Jesus wasn't trying to build a new religion/Church ...
and the original Christians were Jews ... and they were finally killed by those
building a new fake church -- Christianity.
Fascism isn't religion -- it's hatred and violence by the few.
Any tyrant rising wants to control all of media -- we see that today with Trump.
The Bible was written at a time when only scholars could read and write -- they worked for the church.
There are very few humans who are willing to be violent -- only about 3% of us wake up every morning trying
to figure out how to gain complete control over our fellow citizens.
That's hard for most people to believe ... because none of us think that way.
But this kind of thinking is suicidal.
So is Capitalism which was invented by Christianity when Feudalism was no longer sufficient
to run the Papal States.
Capitalism is a system intended to move the wealth and natural resources of other nations
from the many to the few. And it has been used successfully all over the world to do just that.
Doesn't matter where or on what issue you begin your search -- you will end up where you should be.
There should be a way to support the historiocity of your assertions. I will continue to dig. Also, I am wondering if you are equating the Talmud to the Bible. The Talmud is part of the foundation of modern Judaism, and it essentially reverses almost every Bible teaching. Humility is the quality God sought in humans biblically, but that is not so according to the Talmud. Also, everything that you mentioned previously as attributed to the Bible can be found in those pages. It is true that there is a modern connection between Christian and Israeli power structures. It is because many undisciplined Christian belief systems have politically supported Modern Judaism because of the belief that the original promise that God made to Abraham still stands and in turn, also view that the nation of Israel plays a role in prophecy (from books like "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsay). This is not accurate. Many times, it was written that Judaism and Christianity are not compatible. In the case of the Abrahamic Covenant, it was contingent on the peoples' loyalty, which faltered time and again, leading to their rejection by God in the case of the destruction of the first temple; and later again with Jesus. Additionally, considering Jesus and Christianity; despite similarities, no other living being has ever been shown to fulfill the prophetic identification requirements of the foretold Hebrew messiah. Not Horus, nor Sabbati Tsevi. The explosion of Christ's followers among the lower, poor and uneducated slave classes, despite their INTENSE persecution, speaks volumes to the spiritual importance of Jesus story. As to the dates for the writing and distribution of scriptures through history, they are reasonably verifiable through opposed and uninvested sources. In other words, experts that have no religious interests have published findings about the thousands of copies of scriptures that have been written in writing styles, various languages and with regional and historically correct materials over the course of a long period of time. Lastly, there are several key pieces of evidence (the Talmud, Tacitus accounts, Josephus' writings, and the mention of Pilate on a stelae) that undeniably indicate the existence of Jesus and the beginnings of Christianity as a peaceful and persecuted sect, written by his enemies and opposers. If these admitted his existence, not denying his followers dedication to peaceful Christianity, how can we allow the lense of history to do so? Again, Jesus taught humility, service and fine works that put God first, and caring for the weak and poor. Only those who try to imitate him are his real followers. Its is sad but true that many wear his mantle just to misdirect his sheep. Also, many are the ones spreading angry disinfo so that people may hear and avoid picking up the Bible to read any truth about the reality of Jesus.
First of all any male-supremacist religion is basic fascism... right?
Also from the highest perspectives, it is likely that many of the Biblical stories relate to aliens.
And the Vatican has made clear that even if that is so it's not a problem.
I think when I said Old Testament, that's pretty clear.
And without the Old Testament there is no New Testament.
But basically, like our nation's history and the history of the world ... it is basically "white male propaganda."
Notice that even in Arab countries, Jesus is a white man ... !!
Look for answers from the highest perspective you can reach ...
What was the motivation for creating organized patriarchal religions to underpin Elite-patriarchy?
What was the motive for destroying the standing of females in Jewish societies?
Jesus was speaking out against this ...
And, again Jesus is one of 36 or more of the SAME kind of figures all with the same background ...
born on December 25 ... and all the other details in common.
Actually that's the day that the sun/son stops in the sky before it begins its northward path to spring.
The original 13 apostles represent what were originally 13 month calendars based on the female body
which is how men used to tell time. It's why the number 13 became unlucky. And why Judas is a stand in for that lore. All of this has a lot to do with astronomy.
So, again I say, start anywhere with an open mind.
PS: What I meant was we need to drop BC and AD and terms like that and use the actual numbers ... pre the idea that the world is only 2,000 years old because of a fake coming of "Christianity."
Stop referring to 18th century when you can say 1785... it's confuses young students and makes it harder to track history.
I think the divide between us is simply this: I know the scriptures to be inspired of God, albeit often ignored or misused.
Male supremacy is deplorable, dishonest and shameful. I believe it is because the Bible is ignored.
It is written:
Revelation 19:10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”
Here we can see that an angel considers himself and everyone else as slaves to the divine will. No one is supreme.
Men and women should all serve God and the collective happily, if not, forget it. They are not true Christians imo. We both complain about the same, in the case of those.
Also, have you ever heard the story of the angel that went to the shepherds camping in the field to announce the birth of the messiah?
That's bible truth there. It shows that Jesus cannot share the same birthday as the pagan sun god Mithras. In December, the mountainous region of Bethlehem is SUPER cold. Nobody is gonna camp outside.
From a scriptural perspective, nobody can be compared to the only son of the living God. If you read Proverbs 8, you will get some clues that suggest how one special servant was made first and used as an apprentice (8:30) to participate in the creation of everything else. This son sent as a sacrifice should be considered in all seriousness and reverence. The most painful experience a parent can have is to see their child suffer. In this case, God is the father of that child. If it was me, and I sent my son with an important message; and he suffered because of it, I would be the height of indignant if anyone mocked my child. Just sayin.
Please, I respect your opinion very much. It saddens me to see the positive message of the Bible used against people and perverted in society. You have all the right to be disappointed with the way these scriptures have been applied by the religious authorities of Christendom. Please continue to search and decide for yourself. If you pray, pray about finding the truth of things. We should carefully reason for ourselves and never just accept what people say, even the things I have said, for example, should be checked.
view the rest of the comments →
GreenDell144 ago
We need to be especially vigilant and critical of the organizations we belong and contribute to. If any faith leader or believer is suspected, a cover up or silencing is absolutely the wrong path. Kids first, reputations will survive. Honest people have nothing to hide, and should always condemn this crime.
Votescam ago
True -- the Vatican is probably as wealthy or wealthier than the British Royals. And the history of the Church and "Christianity" is extreme (precedent setting) violence, topped off by the most horrific inventions and innovations of instruments to torture people. This "Christianity" was brought her by the "invaders" and the same "Crusade" thinking and "Inquisition" mind-set was used to destroy the native people here -- once again in overwhelming violence against wise and gentle people. Same for the Africans enslaved here. True to their worldwide Papal Edict re native "pagan" people and Africans the RCC called for their "enslavement or killing."
Beware of those with the power to label other people -- How many native peoples did the Vatican label as "pagans ... only fit to be fed to the dogs"? Over centuries how many women did they label "witches" because they were knowledgeable women who studied plants which are our medicines. And who could treat illness and heal? Those were the women they burned at the stake for centuries both in Europe and on this land.
VIOLENCE is the key to identifying evil.
The Vatican/RCC also remains a male-supremacist church which does still NOT recognize the full personhood of females as it recognizes the full personhood of males. They continue to suggest that our mothers, sisters, aunts, wives are "spiritually inferior" and bar them from authority and ritual within the Church. This is a church which underpins Elite-Patriarchy and which has granted license to exploit Nature and all animal-life via "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature." We all know this exploitation is wrong and has harmed the planet -- and is also harming humanity because we are part of Nature.
STOP supporting male-supremacist religion.
GreenDell144 ago
I think it is important to notice that this violent aspect of Christianity was not present in the original movement. Christians were punished and unaccepted until (about) 400 c.e. When the various creeds were adopted, when the empire began to accept (control) Christendom, that is when it adopted violence and other incongruent teachings. The scriptures even warn of this. It appears that this sort of ‘co-opting’ of the movement was happening to varying decrees even before the deaths of Paul and John (1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Peter 2:1-2). Now we have a lot of symbolism in Christendom, and it is used to control politics and individual thought, sadly.
Votescam ago
The original followers of Jesus were JEWS The original Christians were JEWS Jesus was a JEW
There is no indication that Jesus was trying to create a new religion. Jesus was in rebellion against the Old Testament which was written to cement patriarchy. Jesus was in rebellion against the money-lenders. And it is likely that Jesus was a RABBI and MARRIED to Mary Magdalene who is considered Jesus' "Disciple to the Disciples."
The New Testament also has a lot of fingerprints on it as far as control and re-writing. Editing -- information left out -- info changed -- and a lot of convoluted info. It's an amazingly violent book and unlikely to have anything to do with true spirituality. It also works to further patriarchal controls over societies. Actually, I don't think any Biblical writings were produced until after 400.
The idea that this fakery changed the records of time -- mainly for the purpose of confusion as far as I can see. We should straighten out the dates and return to the true dates.
Christianity is male-supremacist religion. It's teachings aim to control normal human sexuality ... not only among their members but throughout all societies.
The Vatican considers democracy its greatest enemy because it protects citizens from having religion forced upon them. Separation of Church & State guarantees your right to freedom of thought, freedom of conscience, and free will. It protects you from any religious organization forcing its beliefs on you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christian
GreenDell144 ago
I agree with much of what you say, however, my point is different from yours. I believe the Bible is a record of humanity ignoring God, and of His followers ignoring and twisting His instruction, again and again; in exactly the violent and patriarchal manner that you described. This pattern continues after Jesus. It is true that Jesus did not create a new religion. He said that he did not come to erase ‘The Law’ (what people call the Old Testament), but to fulfill it. True Christians are not to be tyrants or authoritarians, lording it over others. Those who take the lead are meant to serve, to lay their lives down if necessary. Many times, The scriptures tell us to imitate Jesus. Remember how he washed their feet. He says that it is the Jews that rejected him and their teaching. Archaeological evidence for the Bible’s age has been found in ancient Egyptian trash pits dating back to 100 c.e. The Dead Sea scrolls have a copy of Isaiah that dates to the same period and is virtually the same as the one we have today. History and tradition hold that the Bible writer’s and their message were not received well. Virtually all of them were tortured and killed by the same patriarchal authorities that you and I both are rejecting. The scriptures were later picked up by those seeking to use them as a control device. Throughout history it has been illegal to translate or publish these writings, yet it is still the most popular book in history, written in more than 2,400 languages. However, you will find few, if any religions that actually teaching what the Bible says. For example: Hell? Not literal in the Bible. Trinity? Not In there. Males dominating? Incorrect application (consider the feet washing, also that the scriptures many times appoint the men to first defend the widows and orphans, then their own women and families, lastly themselves). You say that the Christian religions are bad and full of error? I agree with you. But I believe it is because they are ignoring and gatekeeping scripture. I find that humans are often getting God’s messages wrong. Not the fault of the message or messenger, it’s the fault of the humans, especially the ones using the scriptures to get money, shiny hats, power and fancy cars.
Votescam ago
Green --
At the least you have an open mind so continue on your search for truth. Your library and internet give you great opportunities to study the history of the world and to find truth.
The Old Testament was written to cement patriarchy. The New Testament features Jesus -- a Jew, a Rabbi as a rebel fighting the Old Testament, the downgrading of women, the rise of the money-lenders, etal. Both versions underpin Elite-patriarchy.
You have to understand that this "Jesus" figure has come around about three dozen times with the very same story. Check into that.
Actually, Jesus wasn't trying to build a new religion/Church ... and the original Christians were Jews ... and they were finally killed by those building a new fake church -- Christianity.
Fascism isn't religion -- it's hatred and violence by the few.
Any tyrant rising wants to control all of media -- we see that today with Trump.
The Bible was written at a time when only scholars could read and write -- they worked for the church.
There are very few humans who are willing to be violent -- only about 3% of us wake up every morning trying to figure out how to gain complete control over our fellow citizens. That's hard for most people to believe ... because none of us think that way.
But this kind of thinking is suicidal. So is Capitalism which was invented by Christianity when Feudalism was no longer sufficient to run the Papal States.
Capitalism is a system intended to move the wealth and natural resources of other nations from the many to the few. And it has been used successfully all over the world to do just that.
Doesn't matter where or on what issue you begin your search -- you will end up where you should be.
Start anywhere!
:)
GreenDell144 ago
There should be a way to support the historiocity of your assertions. I will continue to dig. Also, I am wondering if you are equating the Talmud to the Bible. The Talmud is part of the foundation of modern Judaism, and it essentially reverses almost every Bible teaching. Humility is the quality God sought in humans biblically, but that is not so according to the Talmud. Also, everything that you mentioned previously as attributed to the Bible can be found in those pages. It is true that there is a modern connection between Christian and Israeli power structures. It is because many undisciplined Christian belief systems have politically supported Modern Judaism because of the belief that the original promise that God made to Abraham still stands and in turn, also view that the nation of Israel plays a role in prophecy (from books like "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsay). This is not accurate. Many times, it was written that Judaism and Christianity are not compatible. In the case of the Abrahamic Covenant, it was contingent on the peoples' loyalty, which faltered time and again, leading to their rejection by God in the case of the destruction of the first temple; and later again with Jesus. Additionally, considering Jesus and Christianity; despite similarities, no other living being has ever been shown to fulfill the prophetic identification requirements of the foretold Hebrew messiah. Not Horus, nor Sabbati Tsevi. The explosion of Christ's followers among the lower, poor and uneducated slave classes, despite their INTENSE persecution, speaks volumes to the spiritual importance of Jesus story. As to the dates for the writing and distribution of scriptures through history, they are reasonably verifiable through opposed and uninvested sources. In other words, experts that have no religious interests have published findings about the thousands of copies of scriptures that have been written in writing styles, various languages and with regional and historically correct materials over the course of a long period of time. Lastly, there are several key pieces of evidence (the Talmud, Tacitus accounts, Josephus' writings, and the mention of Pilate on a stelae) that undeniably indicate the existence of Jesus and the beginnings of Christianity as a peaceful and persecuted sect, written by his enemies and opposers. If these admitted his existence, not denying his followers dedication to peaceful Christianity, how can we allow the lense of history to do so? Again, Jesus taught humility, service and fine works that put God first, and caring for the weak and poor. Only those who try to imitate him are his real followers. Its is sad but true that many wear his mantle just to misdirect his sheep. Also, many are the ones spreading angry disinfo so that people may hear and avoid picking up the Bible to read any truth about the reality of Jesus.
Votescam ago
Green -
First of all any male-supremacist religion is basic fascism... right?
Also from the highest perspectives, it is likely that many of the Biblical stories relate to aliens. And the Vatican has made clear that even if that is so it's not a problem.
I think when I said Old Testament, that's pretty clear.
And without the Old Testament there is no New Testament.
But basically, like our nation's history and the history of the world ... it is basically "white male propaganda."
Notice that even in Arab countries, Jesus is a white man ... !!
Look for answers from the highest perspective you can reach ...
What was the motivation for creating organized patriarchal religions to underpin Elite-patriarchy?
What was the motive for destroying the standing of females in Jewish societies?
Jesus was speaking out against this ...
And, again Jesus is one of 36 or more of the SAME kind of figures all with the same background ... born on December 25 ... and all the other details in common. Actually that's the day that the sun/son stops in the sky before it begins its northward path to spring.
The original 13 apostles represent what were originally 13 month calendars based on the female body which is how men used to tell time. It's why the number 13 became unlucky. And why Judas is a stand in for that lore. All of this has a lot to do with astronomy.
So, again I say, start anywhere with an open mind.
PS: What I meant was we need to drop BC and AD and terms like that and use the actual numbers ... pre the idea that the world is only 2,000 years old because of a fake coming of "Christianity." Stop referring to 18th century when you can say 1785... it's confuses young students and makes it harder to track history.
GreenDell144 ago
I think the divide between us is simply this: I know the scriptures to be inspired of God, albeit often ignored or misused.
Male supremacy is deplorable, dishonest and shameful. I believe it is because the Bible is ignored.
It is written: Revelation 19:10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”
Here we can see that an angel considers himself and everyone else as slaves to the divine will. No one is supreme.
Men and women should all serve God and the collective happily, if not, forget it. They are not true Christians imo. We both complain about the same, in the case of those.
Also, have you ever heard the story of the angel that went to the shepherds camping in the field to announce the birth of the messiah?
That's bible truth there. It shows that Jesus cannot share the same birthday as the pagan sun god Mithras. In December, the mountainous region of Bethlehem is SUPER cold. Nobody is gonna camp outside.
From a scriptural perspective, nobody can be compared to the only son of the living God. If you read Proverbs 8, you will get some clues that suggest how one special servant was made first and used as an apprentice (8:30) to participate in the creation of everything else. This son sent as a sacrifice should be considered in all seriousness and reverence. The most painful experience a parent can have is to see their child suffer. In this case, God is the father of that child. If it was me, and I sent my son with an important message; and he suffered because of it, I would be the height of indignant if anyone mocked my child. Just sayin.
Votescam ago
Green --
OK .. got you ... but here's the problem ... you can't have a BELIEF SYSTEM and an open mind...
A BELIEF SYSTEM IS THE END ... NOT THE BEGINNING OF ALL WISDOM.
The Bible is written by men who imposed male-supremacy on our societies.
Good luck there ...
GreenDell144 ago
Please, I respect your opinion very much. It saddens me to see the positive message of the Bible used against people and perverted in society. You have all the right to be disappointed with the way these scriptures have been applied by the religious authorities of Christendom. Please continue to search and decide for yourself. If you pray, pray about finding the truth of things. We should carefully reason for ourselves and never just accept what people say, even the things I have said, for example, should be checked.