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LightlyToasted ago

CALLING ON @Gilderoy FOR YOUR INSIGHT: https://8ch.net/cbts/res/61621.html#61715

"Okay. Bear with me here. This is important regarding the POPE OF SATAN:

The pope focused on the line “lead us not into temptation,” recited at Catholic Masses around the world, offering the phrase “do not let us fall into temptation” as an alternative.

Removing that line gives support to the idea that God is not the father. Reason? The first sin. If God did not punish us for the

first sin, then who did? Who sent Adam and the human race out of Paradise and into a world that is difficult. The world is ruled by

Satan, but Satan has no dominion over us - not even to sin. Sin is a transgression against God, not a plot by Satan.

Okay. Bear with me here.

The Greek is clear. The phrase μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν is similar to the following two phrases:

Genesis 3:23

καὶ ἐξαπέστειλεν αὐτὸν κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἐκ τοῦ παραδείσου

Genesis 3:24

καὶ ἐξέβαλεν τὸν Αδαμ καὶ κατῴκισεν αὐτὸν ἀπέναντι τοῦ παραδείσου

The Pope is actually trying to dismantle the fundamental notion that God is the one in charge and is the one

sent us out Eden due to our temptation by Satan, the DECEIVER. Never forget that Satan is first and foremost a

deceiever. He has no power other than that. To say that Satan would be the one to lead us into temptation (πειρασμόν ) which in

Greek also means test/trial is actually false because Satan's power is itself a deception. The μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν is similar

to the Latin referre ad senatum, which means to refer something to the Senate. In other words, the meaning is similar to the one expressed

in Genesis. God kicked us out of Eden. The prayer is prayer that the Kingdom of the Lord be ESTABLISHED and HIS WILL be fulfilled, and that

we do not get kicked out AGAIN like before. The POPE IS AN EVIL DECEIVER."

IF HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS PART OF THE PROBLEM, PLEASE LET ME KNOW

andrevandelft ago

I don't understand your line of reasoning.

  • You refer to the "temptation by Satan, the DECEIVER".
  • Immediately afterwards you state that Satan is not the one to lead us into temptation.

That looks like a contradiction to me.

I also think we should preferably study the original Aramaic text that Jesus spoke, rather than the Greek translation, but I don't know whether that is available.

lamplight ago

God did lead us into temptation in the Garden of Eden. God said Adam and Eve could eat from any tree or plant in the garden except one tree. That is the temptation. The Lord's prayer says to lead us not into temptation. I think it means that since Jesus paid for our first sin against God and that God will no longer lead us into temptation when he gave us the Lord's prayer. Jesus was also tempted and understood how difficult it is to deny temptation but he did it and paid for our sins through his death and resurrection.

SYNCORSWIM ago

That's not logical. So, are the ten commandments a temptation? Adam and Eve were tempted by the Serpent in the garden, not by God. God says not to murder or steal. Is that a temptation?

Vindicator ago

LOL. Temptation is not logical, Sync. That's the whole problem. The moment Adam and Eve chose to ignore God's advice about what was safe to eat, their will and appetites overmastered their logic and the right order of their souls was thrown askew.

Simply by giving us Free Will, God "leads us into temptation", because in order to choose freely, we have to be free to choose evil. God deliberately allows us to be tempted, because otherwise we cannot be free. Why do we need free will? Because otherwise we cannot love God back. Without free will, there is no love, only slavery.

Anyone knows this from real life. If you want a hot girl to love you and marry you, you don't spy on her everywhere she goes or try to completely prevent her from being around other guys. You trust her to resist temptation and choose you.