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pizzaequalspedo ago

Interesting stuff. I personally believe there is a true battle between good and evil going on and it is supernatural as well as natural.

Sinful_Casshern ago

Lol I think it's just a bunch of sick fucks that want money and power. This isn't fuckin Ghostbusters

pizzaequalspedo ago

We’ll all find out sooner or later I guess. We all have to live with our choices either way.

riposte ago

The answer is pretty clear to see, but most people aren't willing to even consider the evidence. The blind lead the blind.

Sinful_Casshern ago

Please I'd like to see this evidence friend. I'm totally willing to change my mind.

riposte ago

Ok, I typed the whole thing out and accidentally hit the back button on my mouse and lost it all... so here it is again and even longer.

So, given a basic understanding of some pretty rudimentary math, physics, and biology, this logical argument can be made very quickly. It shows that there must be a creator, and a few things that must be true about him. Once that conclusion is reached, then it can be used in the premise of the next argument, who are what is the creator? I'll introduce some very basic stuff in quotation boxes, so skip them if you know them.

Multiplying big numbers

102 x 103 = 105 . You add exponents.

10200 / 10100 = 10100 . Some people might mistakenly believe 10100 is halfway to 10200, but its only .0000000 to 100 decimals 0001 of a percentage of 10200.

Multiplying Probabilities

Rolling a 1 on a 6 sided die has a 1/6 chance. Rolling a 1 on a 20 sided die has a 1/20 chance.

Rolling snake eyes with 6 sided die has a 1/36 chance. That is 1/6 x 1/6 or 1/62

Rolling three ones in a row on a 20 sided die would have a probability of 1/20 x 1/20 x 1/20 , or 1/203.

Physics - How big are big numbers?

The universe is under 14,000,000,000 years old. or 1.4 x 1010

The death of the universe . If you look at the mark at 160 or E60 you can see the point where all matter as we know it ceases to exist. That is about 10^26 years.

A high estimate for the number of atoms in the universe is about 1081

Biology - the building blocks of life

Proteins are the building blocks of life, and are a chain of amino acids of about 20 different types folded into a structure.

There are actually 250 amino acids, but only 20 can make proteins. There are actually left and right handed versions, so there are actually 500ish amino acids to sort through. The average length is about 250 amino acids.

The general Atheist worldview

Big bang created matter. Matter randomly formed into a basic life form. Life form evolved into more complex and diverse life forms. Heard of the "primordial soup"? Thats where life was supposedly generated in some puddle somewhere.

In order for life to evolve, you must have a lifeform capable of evolving. There is a minimum required amount of dna information

.
.

--------The Actual Argument ----------------------------

So using this basic knowledge we can prove to an incredible certainty that one must conclude that there is a creator. Let us begin.

Ignoring the "scientific" beginning of nothing exploded into everything and happened to form in great order, we will tackle the lowest hanging fruit, the random generation life, or abiogenesis. In some random corner of the universe everything lined up just right, and voila, we have life. This basic atheistic argument used to work when we thought life and cells were just little blobs of goo. But, the more we begin to understand about science and biology, the more we understand that life cannot appear on it's own. It must be created.

So let's take a step back from the complexities of life forms, and just look at one very basic component. Proteins. Proteins are not complex at all compared to life and it's dna information. Life forms already have thousands of folded proteins. If the universe could luckily form life, surely one small basic piece of only a few parts wouldn't be too difficult right?

Let's look at the odds of forming a single protein. There are 250 amino acids, of 20 types chained together in a specific order and then folded. Ignoring the protein folding which is it's own subject, there are 20250 combinations to be made. There's more than one correct answer, but as we do the math, you'll see that even 10 million correct answers wouldn't help.

How big is 20250? It can also be written as 2250 x 10250. 2250 is about 1075. so 10250 x 1075 = 10325

10325? That much bigger than our other list of big numbers! How hard would it be to accidentally create this protein?

Let's make a new hypothetical universe. Rather than 1081 atoms, it has 1081 random protein chains each with a length of 250 amino acids. That is to say, there are 250 times more amino acids(AA) in this hypothetical universe than atoms in the real one. And rather than using the 500 amino acids, we'll use only the 20 that work. Now, the entire universe will shift at once, all of the AA will recombine themselves into new completely random proteins. Now the math will be a bit off because they can't actually all be random, but we'll pretend that they can. Look at how much energy is required for the mass of the entire universe to shift. Now this shifting is going to happen at 100 trillion times every second. Now how long will it take to get an unfolded but functional protein in this universe?

10325 combinations, or 1/10325. Let's say that there are a million successful combinations of 250 AA's. That's still 106/10325 or 1/10319 odds.

The universe produces 1081 new chains 100 trillion times(1013) per second. There are about 3 x 107 seconds per year, lets round it up to 108.

In one year the universe produces 108 x 1013 x 1081 = 10102 proteins per year.

10319 odds / 10102 proteins per year. It will take about 10217 years to create useable protein.

But matter will cease to exist at 1026 years! Matter is going to cease to exist before it makes one. The real question then should be, what are the odds that this universe makes a protein before all matter ceases to exist?

10217 / 1026 = 10191. The odds of generating a single average protein in our ideal universe given all the time in the world* is 1/10191. Not likely!

Reading our texbooks: After 10 billion years life formed in a puddle? Now you should understand how laughable this is. This universe cannot form an average protein given all the time in the world, let alone the 1/101018 odds required for the dna alone.

Conclusion

1) At present, intelligent minds are the only verifiable method whereby non-trivial levels of functional information can be produced
2) The genomes of life contain non-trivial levels of functional information.
3) Therefore, the only explanation we have at present for the functional information encoded in the genomes of life is that it was produced by an intelligent mind.

There must be an intelligent creator. He exists, but we have proven that his origin could not come from matter as we know it; so his existence is outside the realm of our understanding. He is smart enough to create and code dna.

The next step is to take these conclusions as the premise of our next arguments. There is a god/creator, but how powerful is he, did he create the universe as some speculate? Has god revealed himself to us in the pages of history? Now there are logical approaches to these subjects that don't involve scoffing at the very idea of god and works that only he could do.

Sinful_Casshern ago

So you're saying this proves a Christian god?

What if I told you I believe the universe was created, but we as humans will never understand who or what created it. I believe the christian religions and every other form of religion on this planet is complete made up bullshit only being used to control the masses and to gain power. I believe that our actual creator has better things to do than worry about simple lifeforms on a spec of dust the same way we see germs on the floor. Use all the math you want but you will never solve that problem. Until there is clear evidence, say Jesus Christ comes back, then you could change my mind. Right now I believe no one will ever know the truth about such a creator. Yet our species will still fight and kill ourselves over such stupid ideas and prejudices. Thanks for replying though friend.

riposte ago

So you're saying this proves a Christian god?

Nope. It proves there is A god with extremely high confidence (thousands of decimals). I always start at the beginning. The first step is to prove that there is an intelligent god who exists outside of our knowledge. It's generally been very difficult to get people to admit this! But once there, the fun begins.

Proving Jesus was and is that creator requires the premise that there is a creator who can work miracles to begin with. Miracles are possible since we know there is a god who exists outside of our knowledge of physics. Therefore when presenting evidence for miracles, they cannot be laughed and dismissed as crazy, but must be refuted with rational and reasonable arguments. Since a miracle is not impossible, it is possible to use historical methods to evaluate them. How do we know what happened in history? There is a science to history!

We use that science to evaluate the historicity of the bible. Show evidence that the miracles are historical events. The predictions of the future in the past were made before the things happened. But rather than go over every single miracle with care, and take a very long time, it's easiest to pick out the biggest, most foundational and easiest to prove miracle. The resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

When argued from a logical perspective inside the presupposition that there is a god, laughing at the idea and dismissing it is not a valid argument! If the evidence shows that a miracle had a low probability of being a lie, then it can be concluded it was not a lie with varying degrees of certainty. Using the same methods that we use for other historical events, we can prove that there is no other explanation for Jesus' empty tomb other than his resurrection from the dead. It is a longer argument than a simple math equation, and the certainty is certainly not to 101000 places, but it is overwhelmingly in favor of Jesus being that living god.

Sinful_Casshern ago

I still don't buy it. But I appreciate the effort.