No thanks, probiibly wouldn't be much of a debate. Looking through his history I do agree with most of what he seems to say, but @votescam seems to be under the delusion that females can't be pedophiles unless they are church nuns or are being coerced by satanist men which just isn't true., they just get under reported and swept under the rug. He also also doesn't want to acknowledge that feminism like affirmative action might have overshot the mark a bit and there are many instances these days where men are the repressed minority. I don't hold this against him however.some red pills are hard to swallow. many of them where very hard for me myself. I've always been a progressive/liberal. I was so far right I looped around a bit and no straddle the far right. I'm guess you could call me an 'extreme alt-centrist.' but fuck labels, I don't fit into any box. As for the trans thing, yeah.. as a gay I understand people don't always get to choose who/what they are and are attracted to... (unless you are blessed enough to come out bi, then you can just suppress the side you don't want) I don't doubt there are legit trans ppl, but the way society is handling it now is shit. yeah let kids wear what they want and play with the toys they want, but boy is boy and girl is girl. If they feel different from that they will know and be able to tell you when they are old enough to decide that. telling a confused 3y/o that will believe anything you say cause you are their parent that their sex is probably wrong, they just don't know it yet is just going to confuse them and cause issues... just like all these schools where some teacher reads trans propaganda books to preschoolers and terrify them sending them home crying to their pissed of parents.
but then again, I also don't believe in lying to kids about the tooth fairy or santa clause either. santa is actually a good analogy for lots of the big lies of society. some people just want to believe the lies and can't handle having their beliefs in the magical wunderworld they live in shattered. 'santas not real, but don't try to tell the other kids, you will just make them cry' is how some issues must be handled with some people until they are at least open to the possibility.
the biggest problem with the whole transgender thing is that there is no such thing as "being born in the wrong body." it's called dysphoria, and it's a mental disorder, it is not indicative of reality. the only way sex relates to brain structure is because the brain is plastic, and each sex is socialized differently.
like you said, kids should be able to wear what they want and play with the toys they want regardless of gender. it's actually quite regressive to claim that little Bobby is actually a girl just because he likes dolls.
if someone grows up, and remains a dysphoric adult, they have the right to alter their body as they see fit and still receive the same basic human rights as everyone else, but this does not validate the delusion that "born in the wrong body" is a real thing that happens. it's not.
What STUDIES show is that males are our sexual abusers of children -- and that they are heterosexual males.
Those studies also show that females are not our sexual abusers of children, unless they are under the influence
of a heterosexual male.
The majority of sexual abuse of children is INCEST - father rape of daughter or step-father rape of daughter ...
Rather I see deep denial in your post that patriarchy exists at all in controlling our government and all of society --
"Patriarchy is a political system just like Colonialism was a political system"
Elizabeth Gould Davis/The First Sex
In sociology, patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property. In the domain of the family, fathers or father-figures hold authority over women and children. Some patriarchal societies are also patrilineal, meaning that property and title are inherited by the male lineage.
Historically, patriarchy has manifested itself in the social, legal, political, religious and economic organization of a range of different cultures.[1] Even if not explicitly defined to be by their own constitutions and laws, most contemporary societies are, in practice, patriarchal.[2]
... but it is interesting that you acknowledge that males are a "minority" controlling the majority population which is female.
That can only be done through male violence and that has always been the case and continues to be the situation today
throughout the world.
When we consider that women were barred from colleges and universities and thus professions
until the 1960's when "affirmative action" allowed entry for females, it's not surprising that males
are shocked to find that it is women who are our scholars and not males. This is why they now cry
out for limitations on female entry.
And, wow ... you're a "gay right winger" ...
and interesting that you even mention "bisexuality" because that is so little discussed anywhere.
Why would it enter a parent's mind to suggest to their three year old that they are a gender NOT in accord
with their genitalia? Would this be a husband, perhaps, just trying to create some family discord?
On the contrary, it is these young children who know nothing of life and nothing of normal human
sexuality, making clear that they are a different gender from what their parents believe them to be.
There is enlightened society dealing with these issues and then there are some very uninformed posters
who can't deal with these issues at all.
And what does "boy is boy and girl is girl" actually mean to you?
So back to the days when a girl couldn't be a doctor, or is it that you want to prevent a boy
from being a nurse?
And where are "all these schools where some teacher reads trans propaganda books to preschoolers and terrify them
and cause issues" ????
And what does "boy is boy and girl is girl" actually mean to you?
Simple, 'Boys have a pee pee and girls have a vagina' why does it need to be made more complicated than that? being a boy and liking girl stuff doesn't change your sex organs. We don't have to get rid of the biological sexes to git rid of unhealthy and needless gender stereotypes, just stop forcing boy = blue & guns, girl = pink & dolls etc.
Why would it enter a parent's mind to suggest to their three year old that they are a gender NOT in accord with their genitalia? Would this be a husband, perhaps, just trying to create some family discord?
because modern society now tells them to. There is a difference between letting a very young kid wear what they want and play with what they want than confusing them. kids that age will try very hard to please their parents. They shouldn't be put into the position of making such life altering decision of choosing what gender they are, until they actually understand what that means... like around the puberty years when they actually get their male/female hormones going.
As for the rape of minors, females taking advantage of males is under reported. First of all because the male goes into the female normally so the female is assumed to be subservient. if a young adult slept with a older female instead of people going exploitation!! they go, oh wow, you scored a couger, good job dude. In the law and order system when it comes to rape males and females are treated differently. This is a HUGE issue in colleges right now, do to policies enforced onto the schools by the federal government tied to aid money. and if you don't acknowledged this you are simply in denial. If males try to report being raped by a female they are often ostracized and blown off, this effects the stats. There are zero shelters for male victims of sexual abuse, their are zero services to assist them with law enforcement or the courts. On the other hand if a female is rapped there is a whole system to help her through the process that assumes the guilt of the male from the beginning. In many cases false rape accusations against men are not even punished. when it is discovered the male is 'allowed' not to be punished for something he didn't do, and the female is let off with a verbal slap on the wrist, or in the most extreme cases a minor prison sentence of ~6 months
Its like trusting crime statistics that say mexicans and blacks smoke more pot than whites in areas with stop and frisk where the cops search the blacks and mexicans for drugs on the street because of profiling, but let the professional looking whites go by unmolested. of course they will find a higher percentage of drugs on non whites, they are not even looking at the whites.
As for the patriarcy that was totally true before I was born, and yeah is still totally true in the political field, which is dominated by the old guard crew, the demographics there haven't shifted. however, get into family court in most states (especially coasts) and the female is heavily favored. As an example, in my state if you have a verbal argument with someone, and the neighbors hear and call the police, they will come, and the male WILL goto jail, AND get a DV charge (which is an extremely serious charge here, it will fuck up your life for decades) unless the female practically begs the police not to and convinces them she should goto jail instead. they are mandated to arrest one person if they are called out for 'dv' period. The only way for the DV charge to not stick and jail time for the male to be freed if for the female refuses to show up at court. without witnesses they can't press charges, if the female shows up the court will compel them to testify against their roomate/lover. Trust me, I've been in the courtroom, and helped pay for the lawyers. Females also dominate in HR and have tons of power over the workplace.
While there is a ton of truth in what you say, and I don't doubt you are correct in many instances, you deal to much in extremisms. Yes there are some remnants of the patriarcy, but there is also a matriarcy now, and they both intertwine with each other in different aspect of our society. We are doing a terrible job at deleting gender biases, we are just making new biases in some areas in the other direction.
Feminists will not make much progress, because these days is not about male and female equality. its about 'male tears' and punishing us for the deeds of our ancestors.Gender equality won't be reach by oppressing men.
also, I didn't say I was a right winger, i'm at best a 'progressive liberal libertarian', a mix of alt-right and alt-left, extreme centrist if you insist in putting a label on me... I didn't even vote for trump. (nor hillary before you go making assumptions). I was fully on the left before they lost all sense of nuance and went to the extreme of "all white males are evil racist nazis".
I support female rights, but I also support not over doing it and still supporting the rights of males, apparently these days that makes me a misogynist and literally hitler.
What STUDIES show is that USUALLY males are our REPORTED sexual abusers of children -- and that they are heterosexual males.
I am not debating this. but it still ignores that some are females, and a tiny fraction are even gay. it might be rare but it happens. The problem with your view, is it lets that minority off scot free. This is the same problem voaters on this site have when it comes to race.. yeah studies show that ~80 of blacks are 'below the average' when it comes to fitting into civilized society... but that doesn't mean we should oppress the ~20% who fit in and are decent honest productive members of society. Just because most pedos are straight males doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to crimes committed by the rest, even if they are a rarity. if the police and courts turn a blind eyes because its 'only the men' than the exploitation will continue and youths will be damaged.
p.s., even betsy devos agrees with me, she is trying to fix the policy of unfair sexual assault proceedings against males in colleges. good thing not everyone in the matriarchy thinks like you ;) <3
If males try to report being raped by a female they are often ostracized and blown off, this effects the stats. There are zero shelters for male victims of sexual abuse, their are zero services to assist them with law enforcement or the courts.
so why don't i see more MEN speaking up about this? who is it that says, "man you're so lucky!" when a female teacher rapes a boy? it's MEN.
who created shelters and advocacy for female victims of sexual assault? WOMEN did. perhaps us MEN should start working to make the world better for each other instead of whining about women and expecting them to do all the work.
On the other hand if a female is rapped there is a whole system to help her through the process that assumes the guilt of the male from the beginning.
absolutely laughable. no one takes female victims of sexual assault seriously. no one takes ANY victims of sexual assault seriously.
so why don't i see more MEN speaking up about this?
Because anyone who does is called a backwards redneck misogynist, go do a search for the term MRA and read all the horrible things about them, and then realize they are mostly all just average joes who's only objective is to raise awareness about this issue.
the problem is that "Men's Rights Activists" largely developed in a reactionary sense against feminism, and because of this they don't seem to advocate for men's rights so much as they advocate in opposition to women's. i am all for men's rights, but it starts with us men. men are the perpetrators of almost all the violence in the world, against women, against children, animals, and against each other. battling women is not the way we are going to solve the problems in our own gender.
"Men's Rights Activists" largely developed in a reactionary sense against feminism
Modern third wave feminism that goes past equality and heads into reparations/revenge territory is what they have a problem with... and yes, wanting EQUAL right for men, means they are against special extra right for females by default, which is what their whole movement is about, bringing awareness to issues men have that society doesn't want to acknowledged. Yes, there are some extreme woman haters that attached themselves to the movement, but they are a reaction to the extreme man haters that joined the modern femnazi movement.
'all the violence in the world'.. so.. the good behaved men have to be second class citizens until we achieve world piece? It won't happen. The problem isn't the male sex, its the elites who exploit everyone and force them into violence just to survive, individually, and culturally, to maintain their vast wealth and power.. we will keep having problems as long as this us vs them attitude exists with the sexes.
another problem i have with MRAs is their hesitancy to call out the problem people in their movement vs their willingness to point out every flaw of womens' movements.
please don't strawman me. i did not say "good behaved men" have to be "second class citizens" nor did i imply anything like that. what i did state, pretty clearly, is that us "good behaved men" have a responsibility to reform and call out violent elements of our socialization in other men. women can't be the ones to do it; they're smaller and weaker.
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Sk8rminion ago
No thanks, probiibly wouldn't be much of a debate. Looking through his history I do agree with most of what he seems to say, but @votescam seems to be under the delusion that females can't be pedophiles unless they are church nuns or are being coerced by satanist men which just isn't true., they just get under reported and swept under the rug. He also also doesn't want to acknowledge that feminism like affirmative action might have overshot the mark a bit and there are many instances these days where men are the repressed minority. I don't hold this against him however.some red pills are hard to swallow. many of them where very hard for me myself. I've always been a progressive/liberal. I was so far right I looped around a bit and no straddle the far right. I'm guess you could call me an 'extreme alt-centrist.' but fuck labels, I don't fit into any box. As for the trans thing, yeah.. as a gay I understand people don't always get to choose who/what they are and are attracted to... (unless you are blessed enough to come out bi, then you can just suppress the side you don't want) I don't doubt there are legit trans ppl, but the way society is handling it now is shit. yeah let kids wear what they want and play with the toys they want, but boy is boy and girl is girl. If they feel different from that they will know and be able to tell you when they are old enough to decide that. telling a confused 3y/o that will believe anything you say cause you are their parent that their sex is probably wrong, they just don't know it yet is just going to confuse them and cause issues... just like all these schools where some teacher reads trans propaganda books to preschoolers and terrify them sending them home crying to their pissed of parents.
but then again, I also don't believe in lying to kids about the tooth fairy or santa clause either. santa is actually a good analogy for lots of the big lies of society. some people just want to believe the lies and can't handle having their beliefs in the magical wunderworld they live in shattered. 'santas not real, but don't try to tell the other kids, you will just make them cry' is how some issues must be handled with some people until they are at least open to the possibility.
10423908? ago
the biggest problem with the whole transgender thing is that there is no such thing as "being born in the wrong body." it's called dysphoria, and it's a mental disorder, it is not indicative of reality. the only way sex relates to brain structure is because the brain is plastic, and each sex is socialized differently.
like you said, kids should be able to wear what they want and play with the toys they want regardless of gender. it's actually quite regressive to claim that little Bobby is actually a girl just because he likes dolls.
if someone grows up, and remains a dysphoric adult, they have the right to alter their body as they see fit and still receive the same basic human rights as everyone else, but this does not validate the delusion that "born in the wrong body" is a real thing that happens. it's not.
Votescam ago
Sk8
What STUDIES show is that males are our sexual abusers of children -- and that they are heterosexual males.
Those studies also show that females are not our sexual abusers of children, unless they are under the influence of a heterosexual male.
The majority of sexual abuse of children is INCEST - father rape of daughter or step-father rape of daughter ...
Rather I see deep denial in your post that patriarchy exists at all in controlling our government and all of society --
"Patriarchy is a political system just like Colonialism was a political system"
Elizabeth Gould Davis/The First Sex
... but it is interesting that you acknowledge that males are a "minority" controlling the majority population which is female.
That can only be done through male violence and that has always been the case and continues to be the situation today throughout the world.
When we consider that women were barred from colleges and universities and thus professions until the 1960's when "affirmative action" allowed entry for females, it's not surprising that males are shocked to find that it is women who are our scholars and not males. This is why they now cry out for limitations on female entry.
And, wow ... you're a "gay right winger" ... and interesting that you even mention "bisexuality" because that is so little discussed anywhere.
Why would it enter a parent's mind to suggest to their three year old that they are a gender NOT in accord with their genitalia? Would this be a husband, perhaps, just trying to create some family discord?
On the contrary, it is these young children who know nothing of life and nothing of normal human sexuality, making clear that they are a different gender from what their parents believe them to be.
There is enlightened society dealing with these issues and then there are some very uninformed posters who can't deal with these issues at all.
And what does "boy is boy and girl is girl" actually mean to you?
So back to the days when a girl couldn't be a doctor, or is it that you want to prevent a boy from being a nurse?
And where are "all these schools where some teacher reads trans propaganda books to preschoolers and terrify them and cause issues" ????
That's delusion that the right wing dreams up.
Sk8rminion ago
Simple, 'Boys have a pee pee and girls have a vagina' why does it need to be made more complicated than that? being a boy and liking girl stuff doesn't change your sex organs. We don't have to get rid of the biological sexes to git rid of unhealthy and needless gender stereotypes, just stop forcing boy = blue & guns, girl = pink & dolls etc.
because modern society now tells them to. There is a difference between letting a very young kid wear what they want and play with what they want than confusing them. kids that age will try very hard to please their parents. They shouldn't be put into the position of making such life altering decision of choosing what gender they are, until they actually understand what that means... like around the puberty years when they actually get their male/female hormones going.
As for the rape of minors, females taking advantage of males is under reported. First of all because the male goes into the female normally so the female is assumed to be subservient. if a young adult slept with a older female instead of people going exploitation!! they go, oh wow, you scored a couger, good job dude. In the law and order system when it comes to rape males and females are treated differently. This is a HUGE issue in colleges right now, do to policies enforced onto the schools by the federal government tied to aid money. and if you don't acknowledged this you are simply in denial. If males try to report being raped by a female they are often ostracized and blown off, this effects the stats. There are zero shelters for male victims of sexual abuse, their are zero services to assist them with law enforcement or the courts. On the other hand if a female is rapped there is a whole system to help her through the process that assumes the guilt of the male from the beginning. In many cases false rape accusations against men are not even punished. when it is discovered the male is 'allowed' not to be punished for something he didn't do, and the female is let off with a verbal slap on the wrist, or in the most extreme cases a minor prison sentence of ~6 months
Its like trusting crime statistics that say mexicans and blacks smoke more pot than whites in areas with stop and frisk where the cops search the blacks and mexicans for drugs on the street because of profiling, but let the professional looking whites go by unmolested. of course they will find a higher percentage of drugs on non whites, they are not even looking at the whites.
As for the patriarcy that was totally true before I was born, and yeah is still totally true in the political field, which is dominated by the old guard crew, the demographics there haven't shifted. however, get into family court in most states (especially coasts) and the female is heavily favored. As an example, in my state if you have a verbal argument with someone, and the neighbors hear and call the police, they will come, and the male WILL goto jail, AND get a DV charge (which is an extremely serious charge here, it will fuck up your life for decades) unless the female practically begs the police not to and convinces them she should goto jail instead. they are mandated to arrest one person if they are called out for 'dv' period. The only way for the DV charge to not stick and jail time for the male to be freed if for the female refuses to show up at court. without witnesses they can't press charges, if the female shows up the court will compel them to testify against their roomate/lover. Trust me, I've been in the courtroom, and helped pay for the lawyers. Females also dominate in HR and have tons of power over the workplace.
While there is a ton of truth in what you say, and I don't doubt you are correct in many instances, you deal to much in extremisms. Yes there are some remnants of the patriarcy, but there is also a matriarcy now, and they both intertwine with each other in different aspect of our society. We are doing a terrible job at deleting gender biases, we are just making new biases in some areas in the other direction.
Feminists will not make much progress, because these days is not about male and female equality. its about 'male tears' and punishing us for the deeds of our ancestors.Gender equality won't be reach by oppressing men.
also, I didn't say I was a right winger, i'm at best a 'progressive liberal libertarian', a mix of alt-right and alt-left, extreme centrist if you insist in putting a label on me... I didn't even vote for trump. (nor hillary before you go making assumptions). I was fully on the left before they lost all sense of nuance and went to the extreme of "all white males are evil racist nazis".
I support female rights, but I also support not over doing it and still supporting the rights of males, apparently these days that makes me a misogynist and literally hitler.
I am not debating this. but it still ignores that some are females, and a tiny fraction are even gay. it might be rare but it happens. The problem with your view, is it lets that minority off scot free. This is the same problem voaters on this site have when it comes to race.. yeah studies show that ~80 of blacks are 'below the average' when it comes to fitting into civilized society... but that doesn't mean we should oppress the ~20% who fit in and are decent honest productive members of society. Just because most pedos are straight males doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to crimes committed by the rest, even if they are a rarity. if the police and courts turn a blind eyes because its 'only the men' than the exploitation will continue and youths will be damaged.
p.s., even betsy devos agrees with me, she is trying to fix the policy of unfair sexual assault proceedings against males in colleges. good thing not everyone in the matriarchy thinks like you ;) <3
10423951? ago
so why don't i see more MEN speaking up about this? who is it that says, "man you're so lucky!" when a female teacher rapes a boy? it's MEN.
who created shelters and advocacy for female victims of sexual assault? WOMEN did. perhaps us MEN should start working to make the world better for each other instead of whining about women and expecting them to do all the work.
absolutely laughable. no one takes female victims of sexual assault seriously. no one takes ANY victims of sexual assault seriously.
Sk8rminion ago
Because anyone who does is called a backwards redneck misogynist, go do a search for the term MRA and read all the horrible things about them, and then realize they are mostly all just average joes who's only objective is to raise awareness about this issue.
10430313? ago
the problem is that "Men's Rights Activists" largely developed in a reactionary sense against feminism, and because of this they don't seem to advocate for men's rights so much as they advocate in opposition to women's. i am all for men's rights, but it starts with us men. men are the perpetrators of almost all the violence in the world, against women, against children, animals, and against each other. battling women is not the way we are going to solve the problems in our own gender.
Sk8rminion ago
Modern third wave feminism that goes past equality and heads into reparations/revenge territory is what they have a problem with... and yes, wanting EQUAL right for men, means they are against special extra right for females by default, which is what their whole movement is about, bringing awareness to issues men have that society doesn't want to acknowledged. Yes, there are some extreme woman haters that attached themselves to the movement, but they are a reaction to the extreme man haters that joined the modern femnazi movement.
'all the violence in the world'.. so.. the good behaved men have to be second class citizens until we achieve world piece? It won't happen. The problem isn't the male sex, its the elites who exploit everyone and force them into violence just to survive, individually, and culturally, to maintain their vast wealth and power.. we will keep having problems as long as this us vs them attitude exists with the sexes.
10439235? ago
another problem i have with MRAs is their hesitancy to call out the problem people in their movement vs their willingness to point out every flaw of womens' movements.
please don't strawman me. i did not say "good behaved men" have to be "second class citizens" nor did i imply anything like that. what i did state, pretty clearly, is that us "good behaved men" have a responsibility to reform and call out violent elements of our socialization in other men. women can't be the ones to do it; they're smaller and weaker.