It just is. Feel free to Google it but religion predates man's law. I'm not being a dick with this next comment but I assume you're not Catholic so you don't understand the concept of confession and the role the priest plays. Think of the confessional as you praying out loud to God and the priest is there to provide guidance and absolution. I'm over simplifying but that's an easy way to think about it. A priest is not required by law to divulge anything that is said DURING CONFESSION. It ONLY applies to confession. If you told a priest you molested a baby in confession, he will tell you to stop, turn yourself in, pray, whatever but it's up to you to do the right thing. Now if you are NOT in confession like you're hanging out at his house watching TV and you mention it, that is not the sacrament of confession and if he doesn't report it he's a cunt.
In fact the more I think about this, the more it fucking infuriates me actually... the following is an emotionally charged, personal opinion and is likely to offend some, I offer no apology.
They're ALREADY CUNTS for allowing such confessions to be protected. Once upon a time I may have thought differently, that everyone deserves some 'safe place' to reveal even their darkest nature... but FUCK IT! There's a goddamn line, and so far as I'm concerned it AT LEAST starts with child abuse, I could care less what protections religions x/y/z try to justify - if you want an isolated place in which to confess your crimes against children, try jail and then no doubt, very quickly, a coffin.
The priests that let monsters walk back out those doors and into the community they claim to support... let 'em hang(proverbially speaking, ie, put them to the courts and let good honest people(unbiased by religion) decide their fate) for being enablers/accomplices.
You're making a lot of assumptions. 1. Most child molesters aren't running to the confessional to tell a priest about it. 2. Someone confessing something as bad as child abuse of any kind will probably not do it face to face with their own priest.
It's the EXACT same privilege that an attorney has with their client. You do realize that attorney client privilege keeps a lawyer from divulging the exact same information, right? Why no similar anger towards lawyers?
Catholic priest have a sordid history of abusing children and facing no legal consequences. We already know they are above the law and our society is subverted. Lawyers are not the problem, they are advocates for their clients. Priest pray on children, and cover up crimes. This priest is just a typical scumbag caught up in his own protected fantasy world where consequences for actions never materialize. It's the attitude about what is important that pisses people off. Catholic priest are legal pedos.
I"ll post this again. In the past 2 weeks I think I've posted 5 separate articles of school teachers abusing minors. In that time frame, no priests have been accused. School teachers have ten times the abuse rate of children over priests and school teachers are protected by their unions and merely moved to different schools. THIS STILL HAPPENS. Priests have a lower percentage of abuse than school teachers and much less than society in general.
"School teachers do it; you're overreacting about the priests",
We had a very fair conversation earlier, but, I think even you know that this is a comment of yours (intentionally or otherwise) shifts blame or otherwise attempts to normalize child abuse 'in all corners', responsibility to the responsible.
A human sits in a pew, another sits beside - both are blind(they cannot see each other), nobody else is present.
Person A, says to Person B: "I thoroughly enjoy abusing and murdering infants"
Person B, is of course, free to do as they will with this information. Such to an extent, so is Person A free to do as they will. (Do not fucking misread that, I am not condoning Person A)
If Person B does NOTHING to stop Person A from continuing to commit such an act, Person B is as much a cunt as Person A.
I'm not trying to normalize it, just point out that it's an overreaction about priests when compared to many other parts of society which basically get ignored or glossed over. The public school system is more than 10 times worse yet there is no public outrage... and there should be. There should be TONS of it.
fair enough, you are right, but I'd rather we not take anything away from putting light on those who, by now, should understand why there is outcry over many religions' views of children and the abuse thereof. Judaism, for example, once(or still?) defines a 3 year old female as sexually active.
What the fuck, right?
Islam: marry any fuckin underage chick you pay for ey, fuck have a few, go nuts, fuck them, they're your wife, it's okay...
Christianity/Catholicism: Rampant with abusive proponents who consistently avoid prosecution.
Enough is enough, I respect that you are able to be calmer than I about this, but I'm sick of the excuses from whomever, wherever. Kids are off bounds, find another way.
Important point you just made there. Christianity/Catholocism is the only religion that recognizes it is wrong. And don't even get me started on the Jewish practice of sucking the blood off a baby boy's penis after he is circumcised.
As a side note, I have spoken to a few priests about the point of this article and every single one of them said the same thing. What is said in confession stays in confession. However, most did say that things can be done or said to help someone that needs it but strictly speaking they can not and will not say "Person X was in the confessional today and said this..." If asked by police (or anybody) if Person X told them something in the confessional they would all respond that they can not divulge what was confessed in the confessional. Threat of punishment, even as drastic as death will not change that.
Yeah see and to be perfectly fair, I'm going to stand by "draw the line at child abuse", no sanctuary.
I mean no violent threat by that at all, just that if we're ever to eradicate this filth or at least harshly reduce the impact - there can be no quarter.
Those who have the knowledge or actionable intelligence to help, have a choice to make... I'm not much for the "good" vs "evil" thing, but every once in a while, to get shit done, you have to pick what feels just(ifiable).
Is it truly just(ifiable) to defend the privacy of those who strip that and so much more, away from their victims? Is it truly the work of 'god', to allow the injustice to continue for even a moment after learning about it?
Is this not why we're here in the first place? To destroy the scourge in a timely and efficient manner?
For clarification, I'm not a priest nor have I gone through seminary or any type of priest-like training. That being said, as I understand the Catholic's view of confession, the priest acts more like a medium than a confidant (my words, not theirs). In the eyes of the Catholic church, the priest is acting in good faith on the behalf of God and is more like a translator back and forth. They are not the ones being talked to. Of course I'm oversimplifying and probably screwing this up as I'm not a big fan of confession and converted well after the age kids go to CCD classes where this stuff is actually explained.
nono, I understand your angle there, for one of a way to put it, the priest acts as a channel to 'god'
but here's the inherent issue with this... every one of us is already exactly that channel (though, I suppose, those who have severed their channel would seek the help of those who haven't)
for argument's sake, priests often act as a gatekeeper of sorts for those who have the worst things to confess but who are (rightly so) disconnected from 'god', does it not make sense, that perhaps part of 'god' having an involvement - is through other human advents such as (just(ifiable)) policing and law - which would see these sorely disconnected individuals, isolated from those they might harm - so that, if any is to be found, redemption can be sought?
Send the priest to see them in jail?
But otherwise prioritize getting them the fuck off the street and out of the community until they can be 'healed'?
One thing to remember through all of this discussion is we're talking strictly hypatheticals. It's ultra super mega rare that someone would confess they are molesting a kid in confession. Typically the worst thing a priest will hear along those lines is a guy or girl cheating on their spouse. And THAT is incredibly rare. If it were so common they heard those types of confessions on a regular basis, our society is pretty damn fucked.
I would like to think some at least consider looking at it the way I am. I mean shit, some of them must have kids or know people with kids, see kids at their sermons(perhaps the exact children a person has confessed to abusing)... how can they "turn the other cheek" at the thought of said children being abused? It seems as unjust as the abuse itself, despite all other attempted justifications.
From Wikipedia: In the Roman Catholic Church, the Seal of Confession (or Seal of the Confessional) is the absolute duty of priests not to disclose anything that they learn from penitents during the course of the Sacrament of Penance (confession).
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3141592653 ago
This is related to PG as it is an example of an elite's participation in covering up organized child sexual abuse.
HarveyKlinger ago
Except that it's not. The seal of confession is what it is. Regardless of content, it can not be broken.
3141592653 ago
the seal of confession is not the law! child abuse must be reported at all times!
HarveyKlinger ago
Actually, it IS protected by law.
argosciv ago
not that I won't be googling the shit out of this myself, but, source?
HarveyKlinger ago
It just is. Feel free to Google it but religion predates man's law. I'm not being a dick with this next comment but I assume you're not Catholic so you don't understand the concept of confession and the role the priest plays. Think of the confessional as you praying out loud to God and the priest is there to provide guidance and absolution. I'm over simplifying but that's an easy way to think about it. A priest is not required by law to divulge anything that is said DURING CONFESSION. It ONLY applies to confession. If you told a priest you molested a baby in confession, he will tell you to stop, turn yourself in, pray, whatever but it's up to you to do the right thing. Now if you are NOT in confession like you're hanging out at his house watching TV and you mention it, that is not the sacrament of confession and if he doesn't report it he's a cunt.
HERE: https://www.quora.com/If-you-talk-about-a-crime-in-Catholic-confession-can-the-priest-report-it-to-the-police
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest%E2%80%93penitent_privilege
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3G.HTM
argosciv ago
In fact the more I think about this, the more it fucking infuriates me actually... the following is an emotionally charged, personal opinion and is likely to offend some, I offer no apology.
They're ALREADY CUNTS for allowing such confessions to be protected. Once upon a time I may have thought differently, that everyone deserves some 'safe place' to reveal even their darkest nature... but FUCK IT! There's a goddamn line, and so far as I'm concerned it AT LEAST starts with child abuse, I could care less what protections religions x/y/z try to justify - if you want an isolated place in which to confess your crimes against children, try jail and then no doubt, very quickly, a coffin.
The priests that let monsters walk back out those doors and into the community they claim to support... let 'em hang(proverbially speaking, ie, put them to the courts and let good honest people(unbiased by religion) decide their fate) for being enablers/accomplices.
F#%$!
HarveyKlinger ago
You're making a lot of assumptions. 1. Most child molesters aren't running to the confessional to tell a priest about it. 2. Someone confessing something as bad as child abuse of any kind will probably not do it face to face with their own priest.
It's the EXACT same privilege that an attorney has with their client. You do realize that attorney client privilege keeps a lawyer from divulging the exact same information, right? Why no similar anger towards lawyers?
DeathTooMasons ago
Catholic priest have a sordid history of abusing children and facing no legal consequences. We already know they are above the law and our society is subverted. Lawyers are not the problem, they are advocates for their clients. Priest pray on children, and cover up crimes. This priest is just a typical scumbag caught up in his own protected fantasy world where consequences for actions never materialize. It's the attitude about what is important that pisses people off. Catholic priest are legal pedos.
HarveyKlinger ago
I"ll post this again. In the past 2 weeks I think I've posted 5 separate articles of school teachers abusing minors. In that time frame, no priests have been accused. School teachers have ten times the abuse rate of children over priests and school teachers are protected by their unions and merely moved to different schools. THIS STILL HAPPENS. Priests have a lower percentage of abuse than school teachers and much less than society in general.
EDIT: Hey look at this: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/27/pennsylvania-teacher-44-accused-sexually-assaulting-male-student.html
argosciv ago
Sorry but this is just plain misdirection,
"School teachers do it; you're overreacting about the priests",
We had a very fair conversation earlier, but, I think even you know that this is a comment of yours (intentionally or otherwise) shifts blame or otherwise attempts to normalize child abuse 'in all corners', responsibility to the responsible.
A human sits in a pew, another sits beside - both are blind(they cannot see each other), nobody else is present.
HarveyKlinger ago
I'm not trying to normalize it, just point out that it's an overreaction about priests when compared to many other parts of society which basically get ignored or glossed over. The public school system is more than 10 times worse yet there is no public outrage... and there should be. There should be TONS of it.
argosciv ago
fair enough, you are right, but I'd rather we not take anything away from putting light on those who, by now, should understand why there is outcry over many religions' views of children and the abuse thereof. Judaism, for example, once(or still?) defines a 3 year old female as sexually active.
What the fuck, right?
Islam: marry any fuckin underage chick you pay for ey, fuck have a few, go nuts, fuck them, they're your wife, it's okay...
Christianity/Catholicism: Rampant with abusive proponents who consistently avoid prosecution.
Enough is enough, I respect that you are able to be calmer than I about this, but I'm sick of the excuses from whomever, wherever. Kids are off bounds, find another way.
HarveyKlinger ago
Important point you just made there. Christianity/Catholocism is the only religion that recognizes it is wrong. And don't even get me started on the Jewish practice of sucking the blood off a baby boy's penis after he is circumcised.
argosciv ago
touché
HarveyKlinger ago
As a side note, I have spoken to a few priests about the point of this article and every single one of them said the same thing. What is said in confession stays in confession. However, most did say that things can be done or said to help someone that needs it but strictly speaking they can not and will not say "Person X was in the confessional today and said this..." If asked by police (or anybody) if Person X told them something in the confessional they would all respond that they can not divulge what was confessed in the confessional. Threat of punishment, even as drastic as death will not change that.
argosciv ago
Yeah see and to be perfectly fair, I'm going to stand by "draw the line at child abuse", no sanctuary.
I mean no violent threat by that at all, just that if we're ever to eradicate this filth or at least harshly reduce the impact - there can be no quarter.
Those who have the knowledge or actionable intelligence to help, have a choice to make... I'm not much for the "good" vs "evil" thing, but every once in a while, to get shit done, you have to pick what feels just(ifiable).
Is it truly just(ifiable) to defend the privacy of those who strip that and so much more, away from their victims? Is it truly the work of 'god', to allow the injustice to continue for even a moment after learning about it?
Is this not why we're here in the first place? To destroy the scourge in a timely and efficient manner?
HarveyKlinger ago
For clarification, I'm not a priest nor have I gone through seminary or any type of priest-like training. That being said, as I understand the Catholic's view of confession, the priest acts more like a medium than a confidant (my words, not theirs). In the eyes of the Catholic church, the priest is acting in good faith on the behalf of God and is more like a translator back and forth. They are not the ones being talked to. Of course I'm oversimplifying and probably screwing this up as I'm not a big fan of confession and converted well after the age kids go to CCD classes where this stuff is actually explained.
argosciv ago
nono, I understand your angle there, for one of a way to put it, the priest acts as a channel to 'god'
but here's the inherent issue with this... every one of us is already exactly that channel (though, I suppose, those who have severed their channel would seek the help of those who haven't)
for argument's sake, priests often act as a gatekeeper of sorts for those who have the worst things to confess but who are (rightly so) disconnected from 'god', does it not make sense, that perhaps part of 'god' having an involvement - is through other human advents such as (just(ifiable)) policing and law - which would see these sorely disconnected individuals, isolated from those they might harm - so that, if any is to be found, redemption can be sought?
Send the priest to see them in jail?
But otherwise prioritize getting them the fuck off the street and out of the community until they can be 'healed'?
HarveyKlinger ago
One thing to remember through all of this discussion is we're talking strictly hypatheticals. It's ultra super mega rare that someone would confess they are molesting a kid in confession. Typically the worst thing a priest will hear along those lines is a guy or girl cheating on their spouse. And THAT is incredibly rare. If it were so common they heard those types of confessions on a regular basis, our society is pretty damn fucked.
argosciv ago
of course, but on the merit of what i said, supposing the case presents itself?
HarveyKlinger ago
I honestly don't know. I would HOPE they would do something even if they can't divulge details.
argosciv ago
I would like to think some at least consider looking at it the way I am. I mean shit, some of them must have kids or know people with kids, see kids at their sermons(perhaps the exact children a person has confessed to abusing)... how can they "turn the other cheek" at the thought of said children being abused? It seems as unjust as the abuse itself, despite all other attempted justifications.
HarveyKlinger ago
From Wikipedia: In the Roman Catholic Church, the Seal of Confession (or Seal of the Confessional) is the absolute duty of priests not to disclose anything that they learn from penitents during the course of the Sacrament of Penance (confession).
They can not and will not break this.
argosciv ago
Yes and I'm saying, as respectfully as possible, that this is outdated and is enabling predators to seek protection under the guise of religion.