V____Z ago

So, if i have this correct, we STILL don't have any source for the NYT's definition. The NYT gives only "Instagram comments" made to JA.

OK, this is what i wanted to know. When i don't have a good idea of how to proceed i just wait til one comes. The goal would be to expose the fake news source, then to correct it. I DID see this meme on twitter - not a bad start but still a bit wordy for red pilling? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8MYsc5XUAAneN8.jpg

V____Z ago

I have to disagree, from my read he uses quantifiers like "appears" and "revolves around".

A big stretch by the NYT "Hillary ran a ring from the basement of Comet"

BIG big stretch.

I think we need to blow this up. I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how to expose this lie, and at the same time give OUR definition of pizzagate.

DonKeyhote ago

As Maureen Dowd wrote long ago, the thing you need to know about th3 Clintons is that the charges were plausible.

I'd be shocked if they + the others didn't have sex parties in a number of DC locales over the years. That they are both sexual deviants is well acknowledged -- as is bills friendship with pedophile Epstein. In a sane world, like I imagine Montana or North Dakota is, alefantis' homosexuality and art choices + Podesta friend would be nail in the baby sized coffin

V____Z ago

Yeah that sounds like a good idea, thank you. I don't think it got enough traction. The NYT needs to be SHAMED.

GeorgeT ago

Megyn Kelly did the same thing. Basically, Trump supporters created this fake meme of Hillary traficking children from the basement of Comet Ping Pong! I don't know how this can appeal to anyone past 5th grade education!

V____Z ago

I believe it was the New England Journal of Medicine that came out with findings about fluoride's effect on UQ. It ain't good.

nomorepepperoni ago

Hold up. Couple of things on your "evidence" summary:

"Alefantis calling babies "hotards" "

Go back and look at the original photo. JA was called a hotard by one of the commenters, and he called them hotard back. (Plenty other shady photos, though, not so easily dismissed, including "chickenlovers".)

"the use of code"

Where there ARE things in the emails likely to be code, the black and white definitions aren't quite accurate (black partially, white not at all). Here's an actual "hanky code" list if you wish to go this route (copy/paste link line since clicking doesn't work right).

https://user.xmission.com/~trevin/hanky.html

But you're spot on about how MSM has defined PG falsely. They created a strawman that everyone now likes to tip over to prove we're just fools who believe "fake news".

V____Z ago

Thank you. Someone else also schooled me about the hotard mistake, this is the first I'm hearing! Yikes. That literally should be a separate submission, just to clear this up.

PM_Me_Your_Clam_Pics ago

I am really happy that we are reaching back and having these people account for what they did, the internet never forgets, just like Peppridge Farms!

reasonedandinformed ago

The claim about Hillary running a sex ring out of the basement of a restaurant was a deliberate red herring manufactured by the LSM looking to frame pizzagate as "fake news."

sunshine702 ago

We are being gas lit and called stupid. They are MAD because they have completely lost the ability to control "what we think" with the MSM. We have every right to focus on whatever we see fit! This is an investigation. One that frankly should have been done by journalists and law enforcement -but is NOT so it is up to us. This is not a top down thing. Pick off (Alex Jones) or have in fighting (Seaman/Frost) with the leaders - don't care. Those Haitian kids that Silsby was trying to steal THEIR lives matter. This is world wide. This is the worst kind of evil. This is speaking truth to power. FUCK EM! Keep on trucking.

V____Z ago

AMEN

V____Z ago

Oh! She changed it from Hillary and Podesta, to Bill and Hillary, thinking it might sound even more debunkable.

equineluvr ago

Is anyone surprised that the Jew York Times would erect a strawman and then knock him down?

V____Z ago

No one is surprised the NYT stepped up to defend pedos, this is more about holding their feet to the fire and a call to action - demanding that anyone who furthers this fake news CITE THEIR SOURCE. And if it's MSM, show them that all MSM stories about pizzagate refer to the NYT initial definition which was based on some supposed Instagram comments!!!

ZalesMcMuffin ago

The "hotard" thing is a mistaken interpretation. JA and a friend were calling each other that, not calling the baby in the picture that.

I also am not sure about Alefantis vs. Ryan. I'm skeptical about anything which I can't observe, and I can't observe the phone call(s) Ryan claims happened. The rest could be faked and he could be working with JA, for all I know. I'm not at all saying I think that's true, just that I have no way to be sure what is true there, so I'm withholding judgement and, as a result of my uncertainty, I don't push that storyline.

Aside from those criticisms, I absolutely love this posting and you are 100% on target with the gist of it. I wish I could give it a few more upvoats.

V____Z ago

Thanks! On what do you base the claim that hotard was in reference to an adult?

Also, Ryan has pretty well vetted the claims of the death threats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAhyvLPZy_4

ZalesMcMuffin ago

If you look at the IG page, you'll see that Alefantis posted something, then later a friend of Alefantis says Alefantis is "becoming my favorite hashtag #hotard". Then in the next comment, Alefantis says simply "#hotard". So his posting of that word was prompted by his friend's usage of it first. They are taking friendly jabs at each other.

This is how anybody sympathetic to JA will interpret that page, and I believe it is what actually happened. Even if I'm wrong, it's not a good item to push, because skeptics will dismiss it.

This is an example of why we are having trouble making progress: we need good quality control, and we don't have it. So a lot of weak -- and even false -- stuff circulates longer than it should. The villains use that as a weak point to attack us over, but that doesn't mean we should stop investigating, it just means we have something we need to improve on.

V____Z ago

You had me until the last paragraph. I haven't seen example of "a lot" of false info. I also wonder why you are the first person Ive seen correct the accepted interpretation of that IG hashtag. Would yo u insider making a standalone post about this? No one wants to be working under false assumptions, and I think we need to hash this out and get on the same page. I have heard from Alex Jones and now from you that we have a lot of falsities in our investigation. What other examples are you thinking of?

ZalesMcMuffin ago

The #hotard thing has been discussed a few times before. I might have been the first one to go into detail; I can dig up that post if a search feature is kind today. :-)

Other examples of bad info: whether or not "James Alefantis" is his real name; whether or not it sounds like the French for "I love children"; that the pic of drag queen "MsSummerCamp" on the CPP floor is actually Alefantis; that the digging up of the dirt floor in a couple of photos was digging trenches; whether or not Alefantis took the photo of Obama playing ping pong in the White House.

I'm not including the idea that the photo was of Obama playing ping pong at CPP, because (thankfully) that obviously retarded idea never really caught on, but at least one person apparently thought it was so at some point (and in a move which should surprise nobody, the media used THAT in one of their shitty hit pieces on us).

The items I listed which are ambiguous are examples where we have people believing both ways; whichever answer is correct, a portion of the PG community must, logically, be wrong.

There are more examples, but I think that should suffice to make the point. Despite many efforts to "correct the record" (argh... damn Brock fagging up that perfectly useful phrase), some errors persist among at least some of us. Also, when assertions are made that PG researchers think X, it's a challenge to disprove that without some central resource to look it up. The lack of central authority is both a strength and a weakness for us, leading to articles like this one you wrote, drawing on your own knowledge (which I attest is correct from my own similar knowledge) to gainsay false allegations. I'd love for it to be seen by everyone, but we don't have newspapers and media megaliths at our disposal to make that happen, so the message trickles out instead of getting blasted out.

V____Z ago

As for my attempt to correct the record, I agree it does need to be blasted out. I think there are ways to do it, for instance tweeting this to Mike Cernovich letting him know he's been caught furthering fake news. His ego would force him to respond, and then we would get some attention.

My other thought was that someone could make a video, or a steemit. I think grouping Alex and Mike with the NYT would be a wake up call and possibly make this post, or one based on it, go viral, because at least one of them would perhaps respond publically, and there's our audience!

You're right, of course, we simply don't have the media presence. At the same time, I can't just sit by watch us being lied about. I tried to confront Celilia Kang the day after she wrote it, demanding she cite proper sources, but she ignored me and I gave up. It was Mike Cernovich who put me over the edge today. And he's probably more responsive than the NYT. He might even apologize and correct his mistake.

V____Z ago

No, these few examples don't suffice. No one has been pushing the James' name angle for some time, it has no bearing on the present investigation. And only a few people, mainly on Twitter, pushed the idea that the bloody tranny was James. No one here pushed that, and there were efforts to correct folks on Twitter. I don't think it has gained much faction, and I don't see it as an important piece of evidence that anyone refers to.

The digging was mistakenly seen as tunnels for a few months, but we were corrected and that issue died. Again, this has no bearing on our present investigation.

The media can pick any comment any of us make, or send someone in to make a comment for them to smear us with. However this doesn't mean that it can be said we, as a group, have been running with a lot of false info. Ther are a few examples, none of them at all important, and this constitutes an extremely small percentage of the overall information we've considered. This is why the claim sounds erroneous. You've got 3 examples where we screwed up, but ther are 150 examples of wher we were right on, things that have yet to be explained away.

ZalesMcMuffin ago

I'm just now looking at the "Fully Sourced Executive Summary of Pizzagate Evidence" sticky, and it has some of these errors in it, at least in one of the first replies:

  • "#hotard" mistaken interpretation

  • trenches being dug at CPP (actually floor being dug out at Pegasus)

  • staring at hole dug at CPP (again, actually at Pegasus)

V____Z ago

Oh that's a relief. I should probably take a look at it, but i don't trust the mods so i've not been keen to do so.

ZalesMcMuffin ago

I only skimmed it, but it looks pretty good in general. My only complaints are the inclusion of known incorrect info (a very small minority of what's there, from what I saw) and a presentation style which seems to suggest that Pizzagate really is all about CPP and Alefantis. The actual info goes much broader, but if you just glance at the presentation structure, you might think otherwise. It should be reformatted a little bit to diffuse that.

ZalesMcMuffin ago

Another hard-to-kill error was the belief that Kim Noble's art depicting a child being raped and its soul(?) floating upward was once put up inside CPP. Most knew that the art had only been juxtaposed with a concert poster, but not everyone realized that detail.

Then there was the PG tweet from the fake Giuliani Twitter account. I've personally chewed people out over that one a handful of different times, over a span of at least 2-3 months.

And people are still bringing up the fake CPP menu with the "barely survived pizzas" here, as recently as this past week. They still think it was real.

Maybe my point wasn't clear, though. I'm not saying there are lots of instances of wrong info becoming prevalent among us. I'm saying there are some instances of wrong info persisting for a while among us -- usually among a minority. That doesn't mean we're bad or generally wrong. It means we don't have an effective "error zapper" which we can use to quickly expunge bad info. Instead we have to shoot peas at the errors until they fade away.

I don't know if there's any easy way to change this. If there isn't, then we might have to just live -- and, ultimately, win -- with it.

V____Z ago

Thanks for this. The sticky should be a good error zapper - at least a good attempt - but i'm not sure people read it, plus it would only apply to those who visit this site.

I think my reaction was to the fact that Alex Jones made the errors we were supposedly embracing sound like a big deal, like something that had effectively killed our ability to properly investigate pedogate.And I guess my concern is whether this has been blown out of proportion to discredit us and everything we have discovered. It would be very interesting to see the actual percentage of the mistakes we've made, versus the times we've been right on, and made substantial discoveries.

ZalesMcMuffin ago

We've been right more than enough times. The errors are to be expected, and over time they generally get pushed aside by correct info.

Criticism which replaces errors with facts is helpful, but the catcalling cynics have nothing of value to contribute here.

V____Z ago

Agree. IT makes me wonder why people aren't taking Alex Jones to task for making a big deal out of these few mistakes, he literally disses our whole movement based on them, and doesn't put their rate of occurrence into perspective.

ZalesMcMuffin ago

He's getting ripped apart by tons of his fans; I think people are seeing this for what it is.

Judgejewdy ago

To be fair, the mods here were actively trying to keep it all tied to CPP, as well, for quite some time. Just sayin. Haven't quite figured out the latest mod shill MO yet, though.

V____Z ago

That's interesting, i hadn't noticed that at all. Could that have been in coordination with the MSM claim that we're obsessed with Comet? Their way of shaping our narrative so that MSM wasn't actually lying?

Judgejewdy ago

That's probably part of it. Though I think it has more to do with the fact that if they keep the focus on comet then we won't see how far-reaching and endemic the issue is - ie damage control.

V____Z ago

Ah yes, that makes sense to.

ZalesMcMuffin ago

Oh my GOD. How can this man tie his own shoes with stupidity of this magnitude coming from his mouth?

"You should never identify a person by name unless you 100% know what they're doing. Right?"

Um... no, Mike. That is wrong. You can't find out what someone is doing until you identify them by name. How can anyone investigate an unnamed person??

"It's strategy, guys. It's strategy."

Yes, let's skip ahead to the end and see how it turns out, then come back here and strategize accordingly. Oh, wait, IRL we don't have a time machine. We have to follow leads before we know which ones are going to pan out -- and before we know what sort of false narrative the (((media))) and their false opposition sock puppets are going to push.

"If we want to take out pedophiles in deep state, does it help us or hurt us to talk about some pizza parlor?"

It's not "some pizza parlor", you fucking asshole. It's where a lot of the information leads.

I guess we should keep looking for that place with the "HUMAN TRAFFICKING CENTER" sign over it instead.

Fuck you, Cerno.

V____Z ago

If we strategically avoided anything that sounds crazy, there would be no pizzagate/pedogate discussion at all.

sensitive ago

upvoat!

burntheswamp ago

I am asking the crowd here whether my observations of our pizzagate investigation are correct. What I have observed is a large group of serious, intelligent, caring people of all age groups and from all backgrounds, looking into any obvious (and many not at all obvious) leads that have come from the Podesta leaked emails, and from mainstream media (such as the Silsby/Clinton/33 children evidence).

That is correct. The media created a ludicrous claim that nobody here endorsed, falsely attributed it to us, attacked it, then claimed we've "been debunked"

They debunked something they themselves invented.

Nobody here said Hillary was in a basement of a pizza place torturing children.

What we've said is that the restaurant ought to be carefully scrutinized and investigated given that its owner has posted pictures which seem to allude to child abuse and potentially criminal sexual themes. It is a reasonable proposition put forward by quite sane and intelligent people.

The media is absolutely covering it up to the best of their ability (which is not much), and in my opinion they are thereby admitting guilt or complicity at worst, inviting more suspicion at best.

V____Z ago

THIS COMMENT - case in point. Here that, Cecilia?

SayWhatNOWAY ago

Everyone, this is exactly the crap Jones, 60 mins, MSM, and JA want you all to believe! Now, why would these fakenews freaks tell you to stop focusing on Comet Pizza, when none of us "just" focuses on Comet Pizza!

People you are smarter than this!

All avenues need to be looked into, but NEVER STOP looking into Comet PIzza.

V____Z ago

On that note - this is the tweet that got PizzagateAngela banned from Twitter (here is her retweet of it) https://twitter.com/PGAngela4/status/846131802607665152 where a band is saying that Comet does have a basement.

SayWhatNOWAY ago

The same day Jones and 60 mins come out and try to get everyone to stop focusing on Comet PP! HMM!

V____Z ago

Exactly.

dFrog ago

Oh snap, I think I remember some /pol/ anon finding a connection between Kang and some group. I'm not at home, so I can't check what I have saved right now.

V____Z ago

What's trippy is that before this article, Kang only wrote about technology. The NYT is run by a Mexican man, and employs the same guy who whilst working for BBC covered up and lied for Jimmy Saville.

sunshine702 ago

Yep! Carlos Slim and Mark Thompson. Btw. John Lydon "Johney Rotten" tried to out Jimmy Saville as a pedophile in a BBC interview back in the day. They cut that part out. We are not crazy we are DEAD RIGHT!