Fair point. However, I feel I should add that it's reasonable not to believe in something for which absolutely no evidence exists, but not so reasonable to believe in something for which absolutely no evidence exists. Saying "I believe in God" has exactly the same validity as saying "I believe the world is being run by magical purple mind control unicorns".
Absolutely no evidence is a silly way to phrase it. Saying "I don't believe in God" is the same as saying "I fully believe that humans can process and understand with ease all that is around them"
What we call a quark could easily be evidence to point towards any deity (save for personifications of them) being real. Just because the language used is foreign doesn't mean the point is moot.
(happy that I got so deep into science that I've broken past the barrier of atheism :D )
God may exist in some sense (i.e. a being that exists on a completely different scale both in time, complexity, and size), but if it does (and there is no evidence whatsoever that this is so) it has absolutely no relation to the personalized God claimed by any of the world's religions. God in the sense that any religious person believes does not exist, and for any who claim it does I absolutely challenge you to produce any evidence of that.
I've got a lot of downvotes, but in my entire life I have yet to see somebody come up with a reasonable rebuttal to that argument. I mean, you are free to choose to believe in whatever ridiculous arbitrary thing you want to, but please recognize that it completely flies in the face of rational thought.
I think that you've narrowed your scope far too much. If you feel that it's rational to believe that a human being has some inherent trait that allows them to perceive all that is in the universe then I have news for you... Look at the LHCs we have now, massive particle colliders made only for the sake of trying to glimpse something that by all logic MUST BE THERE, but has yet to be observed by man. Can you really make that claim with confidence in the face of the past 100+ years of scientific breakthroughs?
Also not that it matters too much but I've yet to downvote you once. Downvotes aren't productive to the exchange of ideas, conversation is the most productive to that end.
We can generally measure things we can't perceive if they exist. To my knowledge there has never been even the slightest suggestion of evidence measured by any means which would lead any rational person to conclude that any of the gods invented by humanity (or any god whatsoever) exists.
Not once did I argue the strawman you keep bringing up of a human-created deity being fact. I understand that's the path you've gotten yourself stuck in but if you step outside that mindset and broaden your scope a bit you might well see the mistake you're making with your assumption that god doesn't exist (as you stated previously)
Well, if you agree to the definition of God as some nebulous being that's completely beyond our understanding or ability to perceive, and who is on such a vastly different scale that he is incapable of even perceiving us then I'm willing to admit it's possible (although once again, there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest this might be the case). If you believe in a personal god who has dealings with humanity then I categorically reject that hypothesis.
(we really should take this to the theology board or pm but) "God as some nebulous being that's completely beyond our understanding " Yes in part although not beyond understanding, just beyond quantifying with relative ease due to our current limitations.
"or ability to perceive" Well no, and yes. We "know" that there is something more powerful than humans that runs the entire show, and we are currently trying to figure out what this "thing" is.
"god who has dealings with humanity". In what way would you believe that the physical world is SEPARATE from humanity?
Yes we do though. We can easily prove that with all of physics. I don't get why it's so hard for you to grasp this concept honestly. Do you think that humans are the power that moves planets in their orbits? Do you think that it's only gravity? Possibly something else we have only proven through equations? If you can prove to me that humans are the sole operators in the universe then I invite you to do so.
Oh yeah? That's interesting, because I majored in engineering with a minor in physics, and I wasn't aware of that. Do you feel like backing that claim up with some sort of evidence?
It's a forum for discussion. Anyways, I'm a little rusty on physics, so I want to make sure that I can appreciate fully how much of an idiot you are, so I need to bring in a buddy to make sure I don't miss any stupidity, and that's a lot easier if he can just log in to his own account and see what you're posting.
Also the fact that you are continually pushing for an offtopic discussion makes you seem a bit like a shill lol. I doubt you actually have a brain enough to make money from shitposting and I'm sure it's just your sensitive ego causing you to signal so damned hard but if you're going to derail a topic with this much fervor you should probably ask Correct the Record for a job
Because the conversation ended long ago, you twat. You chose to be a bastard, chose to keep an off-topic conversation going for the sake of your fragile ego, and now here we are. Again, you want a conversation lets chat. If not, then keep up your virtue signaling like the cliche fedora-tipping faggot you are.
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rodental ago
God exists exactly as much as Satan: not at all.
Touchdown50 ago
Your wrong. They both exist.
rodental ago
Gonna have to see some proof for that claim.
sleepingbeautycan ago
Right after you prove your claim
rodental ago
Fair point. However, I feel I should add that it's reasonable not to believe in something for which absolutely no evidence exists, but not so reasonable to believe in something for which absolutely no evidence exists. Saying "I believe in God" has exactly the same validity as saying "I believe the world is being run by magical purple mind control unicorns".
n0etics ago
Absolutely no evidence is a silly way to phrase it. Saying "I don't believe in God" is the same as saying "I fully believe that humans can process and understand with ease all that is around them"
What we call a quark could easily be evidence to point towards any deity (save for personifications of them) being real. Just because the language used is foreign doesn't mean the point is moot.
(happy that I got so deep into science that I've broken past the barrier of atheism :D )
rodental ago
God may exist in some sense (i.e. a being that exists on a completely different scale both in time, complexity, and size), but if it does (and there is no evidence whatsoever that this is so) it has absolutely no relation to the personalized God claimed by any of the world's religions. God in the sense that any religious person believes does not exist, and for any who claim it does I absolutely challenge you to produce any evidence of that.
n0etics ago
"absolutes" and your use of them further degrade your argument
rodental ago
I've got a lot of downvotes, but in my entire life I have yet to see somebody come up with a reasonable rebuttal to that argument. I mean, you are free to choose to believe in whatever ridiculous arbitrary thing you want to, but please recognize that it completely flies in the face of rational thought.
n0etics ago
I think that you've narrowed your scope far too much. If you feel that it's rational to believe that a human being has some inherent trait that allows them to perceive all that is in the universe then I have news for you... Look at the LHCs we have now, massive particle colliders made only for the sake of trying to glimpse something that by all logic MUST BE THERE, but has yet to be observed by man. Can you really make that claim with confidence in the face of the past 100+ years of scientific breakthroughs?
Also not that it matters too much but I've yet to downvote you once. Downvotes aren't productive to the exchange of ideas, conversation is the most productive to that end.
rodental ago
We can generally measure things we can't perceive if they exist. To my knowledge there has never been even the slightest suggestion of evidence measured by any means which would lead any rational person to conclude that any of the gods invented by humanity (or any god whatsoever) exists.
n0etics ago
Not once did I argue the strawman you keep bringing up of a human-created deity being fact. I understand that's the path you've gotten yourself stuck in but if you step outside that mindset and broaden your scope a bit you might well see the mistake you're making with your assumption that god doesn't exist (as you stated previously)
rodental ago
Well, if you agree to the definition of God as some nebulous being that's completely beyond our understanding or ability to perceive, and who is on such a vastly different scale that he is incapable of even perceiving us then I'm willing to admit it's possible (although once again, there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest this might be the case). If you believe in a personal god who has dealings with humanity then I categorically reject that hypothesis.
n0etics ago
(we really should take this to the theology board or pm but) "God as some nebulous being that's completely beyond our understanding " Yes in part although not beyond understanding, just beyond quantifying with relative ease due to our current limitations. "or ability to perceive" Well no, and yes. We "know" that there is something more powerful than humans that runs the entire show, and we are currently trying to figure out what this "thing" is. "god who has dealings with humanity". In what way would you believe that the physical world is SEPARATE from humanity?
rodental ago
I reject your premise. We do not know that "there is something more powerful than humans that runs the entire show".
n0etics ago
Yes we do though. We can easily prove that with all of physics. I don't get why it's so hard for you to grasp this concept honestly. Do you think that humans are the power that moves planets in their orbits? Do you think that it's only gravity? Possibly something else we have only proven through equations? If you can prove to me that humans are the sole operators in the universe then I invite you to do so.
rodental ago
Oh yeah? That's interesting, because I majored in engineering with a minor in physics, and I wasn't aware of that. Do you feel like backing that claim up with some sort of evidence?
n0etics ago
Sure, through pm. We can stop shitting up the thread anymore than we already have
rodental ago
No, lets keep this public, I have a friend who has a masters in physics, I suspect he's really going to enjoy this :)
n0etics ago
Eh, if you're here to signal then fuck off. I'm not going to continue mucking up the thread for your egos sake lol
rodental ago
No, I assure you, I just want a good laugh :)
n0etics ago
way to prove you're a narrow-minded, pompous asshole. tips fedora
rodental ago
Hey man, if you ever want to continue this discussion I'm here for ya brother.
n0etics ago
m'lady
(Like I said before I'd be happy to in PM, but if we're going to shit up a discussion might as well make it count)
rodental ago
It's a forum for discussion. Anyways, I'm a little rusty on physics, so I want to make sure that I can appreciate fully how much of an idiot you are, so I need to bring in a buddy to make sure I don't miss any stupidity, and that's a lot easier if he can just log in to his own account and see what you're posting.
n0etics ago
"I'm an asshole online because I'm not required to look anyone in the eyes" - rodental
rodental ago
Still not seeing much in the way of physics out of you, stupid person.
n0etics ago
Also the fact that you are continually pushing for an offtopic discussion makes you seem a bit like a shill lol. I doubt you actually have a brain enough to make money from shitposting and I'm sure it's just your sensitive ego causing you to signal so damned hard but if you're going to derail a topic with this much fervor you should probably ask Correct the Record for a job
n0etics ago
Because the conversation ended long ago, you twat. You chose to be a bastard, chose to keep an off-topic conversation going for the sake of your fragile ego, and now here we are. Again, you want a conversation lets chat. If not, then keep up your virtue signaling like the cliche fedora-tipping faggot you are.