You and the right-wing sites are grossly misunderstanding the amendment and the reason for rejecting it. In no way, shape, or form were pedophiles being "protected".
The sites I was referring to were the ones used as sources.
The hate crimes bill specifies that "hate crimes" are crimes against the protected groups -- sex, color, religion, sexual orientation. The Democrats said there was no reason to tack on "excluding pedophiles" because pedophiles were -- obviously -- already not one of the protected groups.
It would be like tacking on an amendment to the Civil Rights Act to exclude pedophiles.
Pedophiles are not a protected group, it's that simple. Therefore hate crimes do not apply to them. A crime against a pedophile is just a regular crime, it is not a hate crime.
It is certainly NOT a widespread belief among liberals or anyone else, it is not considered so scientifically or by any dictionary definition, and it is certainly not considered so in any law protecting sexual orientation.
But there are others, whose sexual attraction to children seems to be hard wired. Dr James Cantor of the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto, Canada, has been using MRI scans to explore the brains of paedophiles. He says, “Paedophilia is a sexual orientation. Paedophilia is something that we are essentially born with, does not appear to change over time and it is as core to our being as any other sexual orientation is.”
Sexual orientation is DEFINED as the sex you are attracted to in relation to your own. Children are not a sex, therefore attraction to children is not a sexual orientation. It doesn't matter if it's genetic or not, that has nothing to do with anything.
The day someone attempts to argue a crime against a pedophile was a hate crime because it's a sexual orientation, then you can be concerned about amending the bill to exclude them. Until that (completely imaginary) day, there is no point in adding that exclusion.
Wiki: Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender.
American Psychological Association: (source for above)
U.S. Office of Personnel Management: Sexual orientation means one’s emotional or physical attraction to the same and/or
opposite sex.
This is how the medical/scientific community defines it, this is how the dictionary defines it, this is how the U.S. government defines it. Therefore there is no need to add any special language about pedophiles into anything having to do with sexual orientation.
Google "sexual orientation" and you will get all the links you need.
Why do I care what some bullshit website claims the APA says? I just told you what the APA says about sexual orientation, pasted from their own website: http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx Here it is again: "Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions to men, women or both sexes."
But again, all that matters concerning federal laws is the federal government's definition, which I also already gave you: " Key Definitions:
Sexual orientation means one’s emotional
or physical attraction to the same and/or
opposite sex. "
Michael Seto, in his article "Is Pedophilia a Sexual Orientation?" ("Archives of Sexual Behavior, Feb. 2012, Vol. 41, Issue 1, pp. 231-236), makes a distinction between sexual gender orientation, and sexual age orientation, and discusses the potential legal implications of expanding the definition of "sexual orientation" to include sexual age preferences. Here are some excerpts.
"Answering the question of whether pedophilia in men is a sexual age orientation (or sexual orientation with regard to age) has implications for science, clinical practice, and public policy…
"Sexual gender orientation (heterosexual or non-heterosexual preferences) is typically experienced as something one begins to discover about oneself in early puberty, rather than something one acquires as a result of developmental or environmental processes. An increasing body of research has revealed that prenatal factors (e.g., as indicated by the fraternal birth order effect and greater non-right-handedness) influence sexual gender orientation and has identified neuroanatomical and other biological correlates (Mustanski, Chivers, & Bailey, 2002; Wilson & Rahman, 2005). Recent research suggests some interesting similarities, and differences, in the neurobiological correlates of pedophilia (see Cantor, submitted). For clinical practice, the answer shapes our hypotheses and approaches about assessment, prognosis, and treatment. Sexual gender orientation is often viewed as innate; it can be assessed through self-report, reaction time, and genital response; and reorientation therapies have not worked for homosexual men, suggesting interventions may be able to change sexual arousal patterns or even behavior without changing the underlying preferences (Drescher & Zucker, 2006). Finally, for public policy, perhaps most controversially, the answer may affect societal perceptions and may have implications for criminal and civil law. Anti-discrimination laws and policies refer to sexual orientation, but with the implicit understanding that one is referring to sexual gender orientation. But what might happen if the definition of sexual orientation were to expand to include sexual age preferences such as pedophilia?...
"By the above definition of sexual orientation—and most common definitions of sexual orientation—pedophilia can be viewed as a sexual age orientation based on the more limited evidence available regarding its age of onset, associations with sexual and romantic behavior, and stability over time. Though there are clearly differences in some respects, there are also striking similarities in the research literature on pedophilia….
"The strongest test of sexual orientation is whom a person would choose in a hypothetical situation where they could freely have sex, without negative consequences, when presented with the alternate choices: man or woman, adult or child. Teleiophilic individuals (to use a term coined by Blanchard) would choose physically mature persons and pedophilic individuals would choose prepubescent children. Androphilic (homosexual teleiophilic) men would choose other men and gynephilic (heterosexual teleiophilic) men would choose women.2
"Sexual age and gender orientation can be viewed as dissociable in men (see Fig. 1; Blanchard, 2010; also, Quinsey & Lalumière, 1995, described a male sexual preference system that would contain different mental modules attending to different gender and age cues). Whether someone is sexually attracted to children or to adults is partially independent of whether he is sexually attracted to males or females. These dimensions are not completely orthogonal because pedophilic individuals distinguish less between boys and girls than teleiophiles distinguish between men and women, possibly reflecting the fact that boys and girls differ less in terms of body size and shape than do men and women. Secondary sexual development (breasts, axillary and pubic hair, size and shape of external genitalia) also provides more cues about gender when examining adults.
"I have focused on the scientific and clinical implications of conceptualizing pedophilia as a sexual orientation in this brief article. But what about the legal and social implications? In particular,what impact might there be inconceptualizing pedophilia as a sexual age orientation, based on empirical evidence, akin to sexual gender orientation such as heterosexuality or homosexuality? For example, there are anti-discrimination laws or policies that specifically mention ‘sexual orientation’ as grounds for redress. The makers of these laws and policies surely had sexual gender orientation in mind, not sexual age orientation.
"It is important to emphasize here that I am not equating these gender and age orientations. Homosexuality continues to be negatively sanctioned in a variety of ways, but social changes haveoccurred, including the legal rights of marriage or civil unions in Canada and several other countries, recognition of same-sex partner benefits, and the inclusion of sexual gender orientation in anti-discrimination policies and laws. In my opinion, these are signs of progress: I am generally opposed to discrimination, and I believe that mutually consenting sex between adults should not be subject to legal or other discrimination. Pedophilia, on the other hand, involves sex between an adult and a child who is not legally able to consent. There are substantial asymmetries in cognitive ability, psychosexual development, and autonomy that are not usually present in sexual interactions between consenting adults. I would still consider it no particular concern of mine if adult pedophiles advocated for the freedom to have sex with other adult pedophiles. They do not, however, and I think there is often a self-serving motive in adult statements supportive of adult–child sex.3"
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comeonpeople ago
You and the right-wing sites are grossly misunderstanding the amendment and the reason for rejecting it. In no way, shape, or form were pedophiles being "protected".
cantsleepawink ago
Please explain. I'm open to hearing your thoughts. (This is not a right-wing site, btw).
comeonpeople ago
The sites I was referring to were the ones used as sources.
The hate crimes bill specifies that "hate crimes" are crimes against the protected groups -- sex, color, religion, sexual orientation. The Democrats said there was no reason to tack on "excluding pedophiles" because pedophiles were -- obviously -- already not one of the protected groups.
It would be like tacking on an amendment to the Civil Rights Act to exclude pedophiles.
Pedophiles are not a protected group, it's that simple. Therefore hate crimes do not apply to them. A crime against a pedophile is just a regular crime, it is not a hate crime.
cantsleepawink ago
Pedophilia is described in the liberal world as a sexual orientation.
comeonpeople ago
There may be some idiots somewhere who say that.
It is certainly NOT a widespread belief among liberals or anyone else, it is not considered so scientifically or by any dictionary definition, and it is certainly not considered so in any law protecting sexual orientation.
cantsleepawink ago
This is called grooming..from the Huff Post... He Is A Paedophile, But That Does Not Make Him A Child Molester
See where they are going with this ?
comeonpeople ago
You mean "he". Not "they".
Sexual orientation is DEFINED as the sex you are attracted to in relation to your own. Children are not a sex, therefore attraction to children is not a sexual orientation. It doesn't matter if it's genetic or not, that has nothing to do with anything.
The day someone attempts to argue a crime against a pedophile was a hate crime because it's a sexual orientation, then you can be concerned about amending the bill to exclude them. Until that (completely imaginary) day, there is no point in adding that exclusion.
cantsleepawink ago
Links please to back up your claims.
comeonpeople ago
What "claims"?
Wiki: Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender.
American Psychological Association: (source for above)
U.S. Office of Personnel Management: Sexual orientation means one’s emotional or physical attraction to the same and/or opposite sex.
This is how the medical/scientific community defines it, this is how the dictionary defines it, this is how the U.S. government defines it. Therefore there is no need to add any special language about pedophiles into anything having to do with sexual orientation.
cantsleepawink ago
Here's a link you need as you refuse to provide anything : http://www.truthandaction.org/legalizing-sexual-child-abuse-pedophilia-now-classified-sexual-orientation/
Note: on these matters medical definitions tend to be a fluid thing ..to keep up with the politics. I'm sure you're not that obtuse.
comeonpeople ago
Google "sexual orientation" and you will get all the links you need.
Why do I care what some bullshit website claims the APA says? I just told you what the APA says about sexual orientation, pasted from their own website: http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx Here it is again: "Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions to men, women or both sexes."
But again, all that matters concerning federal laws is the federal government's definition, which I also already gave you: " Key Definitions: Sexual orientation means one’s emotional or physical attraction to the same and/or opposite sex. "
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/diversity-and-inclusion/reference-materials/addressing-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-discrimination-in-federal-civilian-employment.pdf
zoltan907 ago
Michael Seto, in his article "Is Pedophilia a Sexual Orientation?" ("Archives of Sexual Behavior, Feb. 2012, Vol. 41, Issue 1, pp. 231-236), makes a distinction between sexual gender orientation, and sexual age orientation, and discusses the potential legal implications of expanding the definition of "sexual orientation" to include sexual age preferences. Here are some excerpts.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-011-9882-6 You can use Sci Hub to retrieve the entire article. http://sci-hub.bz/ Maybe this direct link will work: http://link.springer.com.sci-hub.bz/article/10.1007/s10508-011-9882-6
"Answering the question of whether pedophilia in men is a sexual age orientation (or sexual orientation with regard to age) has implications for science, clinical practice, and public policy…
"Sexual gender orientation (heterosexual or non-heterosexual preferences) is typically experienced as something one begins to discover about oneself in early puberty, rather than something one acquires as a result of developmental or environmental processes. An increasing body of research has revealed that prenatal factors (e.g., as indicated by the fraternal birth order effect and greater non-right-handedness) influence sexual gender orientation and has identified neuroanatomical and other biological correlates (Mustanski, Chivers, & Bailey, 2002; Wilson & Rahman, 2005). Recent research suggests some interesting similarities, and differences, in the neurobiological correlates of pedophilia (see Cantor, submitted). For clinical practice, the answer shapes our hypotheses and approaches about assessment, prognosis, and treatment. Sexual gender orientation is often viewed as innate; it can be assessed through self-report, reaction time, and genital response; and reorientation therapies have not worked for homosexual men, suggesting interventions may be able to change sexual arousal patterns or even behavior without changing the underlying preferences (Drescher & Zucker, 2006). Finally, for public policy, perhaps most controversially, the answer may affect societal perceptions and may have implications for criminal and civil law. Anti-discrimination laws and policies refer to sexual orientation, but with the implicit understanding that one is referring to sexual gender orientation. But what might happen if the definition of sexual orientation were to expand to include sexual age preferences such as pedophilia?...
"By the above definition of sexual orientation—and most common definitions of sexual orientation—pedophilia can be viewed as a sexual age orientation based on the more limited evidence available regarding its age of onset, associations with sexual and romantic behavior, and stability over time. Though there are clearly differences in some respects, there are also striking similarities in the research literature on pedophilia….
"The strongest test of sexual orientation is whom a person would choose in a hypothetical situation where they could freely have sex, without negative consequences, when presented with the alternate choices: man or woman, adult or child. Teleiophilic individuals (to use a term coined by Blanchard) would choose physically mature persons and pedophilic individuals would choose prepubescent children. Androphilic (homosexual teleiophilic) men would choose other men and gynephilic (heterosexual teleiophilic) men would choose women.2
"Sexual age and gender orientation can be viewed as dissociable in men (see Fig. 1; Blanchard, 2010; also, Quinsey & Lalumière, 1995, described a male sexual preference system that would contain different mental modules attending to different gender and age cues). Whether someone is sexually attracted to children or to adults is partially independent of whether he is sexually attracted to males or females. These dimensions are not completely orthogonal because pedophilic individuals distinguish less between boys and girls than teleiophiles distinguish between men and women, possibly reflecting the fact that boys and girls differ less in terms of body size and shape than do men and women. Secondary sexual development (breasts, axillary and pubic hair, size and shape of external genitalia) also provides more cues about gender when examining adults.
"I have focused on the scientific and clinical implications of conceptualizing pedophilia as a sexual orientation in this brief article. But what about the legal and social implications? In particular,what impact might there be inconceptualizing pedophilia as a sexual age orientation, based on empirical evidence, akin to sexual gender orientation such as heterosexuality or homosexuality? For example, there are anti-discrimination laws or policies that specifically mention ‘sexual orientation’ as grounds for redress. The makers of these laws and policies surely had sexual gender orientation in mind, not sexual age orientation.
"It is important to emphasize here that I am not equating these gender and age orientations. Homosexuality continues to be negatively sanctioned in a variety of ways, but social changes haveoccurred, including the legal rights of marriage or civil unions in Canada and several other countries, recognition of same-sex partner benefits, and the inclusion of sexual gender orientation in anti-discrimination policies and laws. In my opinion, these are signs of progress: I am generally opposed to discrimination, and I believe that mutually consenting sex between adults should not be subject to legal or other discrimination. Pedophilia, on the other hand, involves sex between an adult and a child who is not legally able to consent. There are substantial asymmetries in cognitive ability, psychosexual development, and autonomy that are not usually present in sexual interactions between consenting adults. I would still consider it no particular concern of mine if adult pedophiles advocated for the freedom to have sex with other adult pedophiles. They do not, however, and I think there is often a self-serving motive in adult statements supportive of adult–child sex.3"