It isn't automatically a choice between prank and truth. It could be a government lie. So, he wouldn't go to jail.
Remember that the CIA overthrew a democratically elected government [Iran], and then released the documents around the year 2000. If the government can tamper with the Iranian election, and the US election, then they have the resources and skills to tamper with this investigation.
Do they have the motive?
I'm not claiming that Pizzagate Gear is fake. I'm honestly starting to trust him now, but he needs to behave a bit better.
Let's play out your scenario - it's a government op and pizzagate gear is a woken sleeper cell.
If the government is willing to go to those lengths to enrapture a bunch of online yippies at a fairly obscure web forum for two days, our problems are even worse than we think.
I wouldn't defend the view, but I'm just baffled by the idea that somebody can gain so much trust. It seems odd, if he had discovered and released new information, but he didn't. All of his analysis has been the work of others [i.e.: pyjama factory; pegasus]; at least all of the work, that I've seen. The most credibility has been with the police reports, but even that can be useless. I could file a complaint, and then an official report would be started, but there would be no evidence that it had happened.
1 important thing that I don't understand is why he is so reluctant to promote his shirts in the memes forum. He already has his shirts in stock, and its free to promote his wares there.
Also, I just find his work to be so impulsive: "...and so I decided to call James.". What on earth?
I know that I'm not perfect, so I'll be careful to avoid accusing him, but I think that it's reasonable to approach Pizzagate Gear with caution.
I take it that he seems totally trust worthy to you?
Actually all the rough around the edges stuff gives him more credibility to me. I think we've witnessed a genuine hobbyist member of the public caught off guard by an alleged lifelong DC intimidation blackmailer who is alledgedly used to heavy tactics and people with a lot tougher skin overplayed his hand and also has obvious but alleged self-control, anger and probably drug and/or alcohol issues. There is not one moment that Alefantis has given us on tape or in interviews that feels authentic on his part so far, until now. The whole thing has too many little complexities (doesn't know what a mod is but knows what a shill is? no op would do that, it wouldn't be thought of in the first place and doesn't move the narrative). I think what we've witnessed is what goes down in phone calls and face to face in DC routinely, and we've just had a peek behind the curtain. So the guy made up some tshirts for pals, get a life who cares? Again, if the gov wanted to plant an op, they wouldn't plant a shred of compromising material with him - he would NOT have had a tshirt thing on the side. And it is so rinky-dink. Seems like his legit hobby and interest. The worst that could be said is that he probably did think if he could get some kind of intervew with JA, he probably would make a name for himself and sell a few tshirts, but did not expect this type of an explosion to go down. Really had no idea of what kind of id he was contacting. He was interested enough to message JA through Facebook, so he's a little more into it than the average bear. If it becomes an absolute certainty it happened, I'd go so far as to say he handled it well, drawing him out, getting him to talk more than less - then going public. Better than just hanging up and being afraid. I don't blame him for not wanting to post on the meme area - the community is prickly enough without asking for further hate and questioning. If Alefantis was innocent, he'd be suing the pizzagater so fast for defamation - a false police report and defamation within an explosively controversial subject like pizzagate is serious business.
My last thought - basically I blame Facebook, which I hate. If they weren't both on Facefail none of this would have happened like this. Being so connected with the whole world isn't all it's cracked up to be.
I'm in agreement with you. The funny thing to me is that if this is true the tactics used by JA are actually outlined in a research thesis JA's Cousin's husband wrote in the 80's http://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3018&context=luc_diss . In essence the paper is about belief of viewers to victims, and their reactions. An interesting read, but I wonder if JA was taught (by accident or not) about the contents of this research.
doesn't know what a mod is but knows what a shill is? no op would do that
That's an interesting point. Remember though, if Pizzagate Gear is on their side, then he probably has the resources to come up with little authentic things like that.
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Investigate1999 ago
It isn't automatically a choice between prank and truth. It could be a government lie. So, he wouldn't go to jail.
Remember that the CIA overthrew a democratically elected government [Iran], and then released the documents around the year 2000. If the government can tamper with the Iranian election, and the US election, then they have the resources and skills to tamper with this investigation.
Do they have the motive?
I'm not claiming that Pizzagate Gear is fake. I'm honestly starting to trust him now, but he needs to behave a bit better.
VieBleu ago
Let's play out your scenario - it's a government op and pizzagate gear is a woken sleeper cell.
If the government is willing to go to those lengths to enrapture a bunch of online yippies at a fairly obscure web forum for two days, our problems are even worse than we think.
Investigate1999 ago
Yeah. Exactly.
I wouldn't defend the view, but I'm just baffled by the idea that somebody can gain so much trust. It seems odd, if he had discovered and released new information, but he didn't. All of his analysis has been the work of others [i.e.: pyjama factory; pegasus]; at least all of the work, that I've seen. The most credibility has been with the police reports, but even that can be useless. I could file a complaint, and then an official report would be started, but there would be no evidence that it had happened.
1 important thing that I don't understand is why he is so reluctant to promote his shirts in the memes forum. He already has his shirts in stock, and its free to promote his wares there.
Also, I just find his work to be so impulsive: "...and so I decided to call James.". What on earth?
I know that I'm not perfect, so I'll be careful to avoid accusing him, but I think that it's reasonable to approach Pizzagate Gear with caution.
I take it that he seems totally trust worthy to you?
VieBleu ago
Actually all the rough around the edges stuff gives him more credibility to me. I think we've witnessed a genuine hobbyist member of the public caught off guard by an alleged lifelong DC intimidation blackmailer who is alledgedly used to heavy tactics and people with a lot tougher skin overplayed his hand and also has obvious but alleged self-control, anger and probably drug and/or alcohol issues. There is not one moment that Alefantis has given us on tape or in interviews that feels authentic on his part so far, until now. The whole thing has too many little complexities (doesn't know what a mod is but knows what a shill is? no op would do that, it wouldn't be thought of in the first place and doesn't move the narrative). I think what we've witnessed is what goes down in phone calls and face to face in DC routinely, and we've just had a peek behind the curtain. So the guy made up some tshirts for pals, get a life who cares? Again, if the gov wanted to plant an op, they wouldn't plant a shred of compromising material with him - he would NOT have had a tshirt thing on the side. And it is so rinky-dink. Seems like his legit hobby and interest. The worst that could be said is that he probably did think if he could get some kind of intervew with JA, he probably would make a name for himself and sell a few tshirts, but did not expect this type of an explosion to go down. Really had no idea of what kind of id he was contacting. He was interested enough to message JA through Facebook, so he's a little more into it than the average bear. If it becomes an absolute certainty it happened, I'd go so far as to say he handled it well, drawing him out, getting him to talk more than less - then going public. Better than just hanging up and being afraid. I don't blame him for not wanting to post on the meme area - the community is prickly enough without asking for further hate and questioning. If Alefantis was innocent, he'd be suing the pizzagater so fast for defamation - a false police report and defamation within an explosively controversial subject like pizzagate is serious business.
My last thought - basically I blame Facebook, which I hate. If they weren't both on Facefail none of this would have happened like this. Being so connected with the whole world isn't all it's cracked up to be.
ghost_marauder ago
I'm in agreement with you. The funny thing to me is that if this is true the tactics used by JA are actually outlined in a research thesis JA's Cousin's husband wrote in the 80's http://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3018&context=luc_diss . In essence the paper is about belief of viewers to victims, and their reactions. An interesting read, but I wonder if JA was taught (by accident or not) about the contents of this research.
Investigate1999 ago
That's an interesting point. Remember though, if Pizzagate Gear is on their side, then he probably has the resources to come up with little authentic things like that.
VieBleu ago
sorry, too much of a stretch for me.