If anyone wants a more in depth explanation for what Pan (i.e. Baphomet) represents, here are a couple resources. James Alefantis is far from the only person who references Pan; you see these references fairly regularly in occult circles. And yes, many of the occult groups that reference Baphomet say questionable things that are on par with what you see in pizzagate.
Do you have any evidence to prove me wrong? You may as well adopt the strategy of the MSM and accuse me of making fake news. At 4:08 in the video I cross-reference Albert Pike's work with that of Eliphias Levi to argue the connection between Pan and Baphomet. Both of these men were prominent occultists that continue to be influential.
I'm not going to watch your video. If you bring up anything other than did the article, I humbly request you explain it in text.
Regarding the Vigilant Citizen link, I find this article insufficient evidence for the following reason, noted in the article itself:
Since gaining widespread recognition in popular culture, the image of Baphomet is now used as a symbol of anything regarding occultism and ritualism.
...
After centuries of myths, hoaxes, propaganda and disinformation on both sides of the spectrum...
...
Baphomet became, depending of the point of view, a representation of everything that is good in occultism or everything that is evil in occultism. It is, in fact, the ultimate “scapegoat”
I see nothing more than superficial coincidences, like having horns, linking these deities of vastly different domains across thousands of years. Pan is an old fertility god. Most likely far older than even the classical greeks. Pan is associated with the phallus... as are half of these greek deities. And I see no references about pedophilia.
Does Alefantis associate Pan with Baphomet? Maybe. Who knows what faux-beliefs he has? But because there's no link from Pan to Baphomet, him liking Pan does not prove anything.
And even if Alefantis was tied to Baphomet... or even came out and said "I love Satan," that's not illegal. It's just more circumstantial evidence suggesting child abuse to add to the pile.
I'm not going to watch your video. If you bring up anything other than did the article, I humbly request you explain it in text.
Logical fallacy: refusal to acknowledge conflicting evidence. I even directed you to the part of the video to skip to. It will take 3 minutes to watch tops.
Everything else
Logical fallacy: strawman argument. The links I provided in the original comment were to argue two overall points:
1.) That Pan and Baphomet are synonymous in modern occult circles
2.) What Baphomet represents
You argued against the first point by using evidence that existed to prove the second point.
Logical fallacy: refusal to acknowledge conflicting evidence.
I'm not refusing to acknowledge conflicting evidence, I'm refusing to add to your view count. I've spent time on writing (and rewriting) this text, surely you can return the favor, if you indeed have anything new to say which the article did not already.
Logical fallacy: strawman argument.
Not really a strawman but OK, I'll address your concern:
You argued against the first point by using evidence that existed to prove the second point.
I'm fairly certain that how you intended to use your evidence has itself no bearing on the logical validity of how I choose to use it.
I'll try and spell this out a little more clearly:
Pan and Baphomet are not synonomous in modern occult circles. This is because there is no such thing as a single 'modern occult circle'. (this is actually a strawman, fyi). As the article suggests, modern occult practices are varied. There is no universally true link from worship of Pan to worship of Baphomet. Occultists will essentially use whatever they think is cool, and will adopt whatever symbols they feel like, even if the historical use of a symbol is completely contrary to their aims. Even if Pan and Baphomet have a connection in one occult circle, they may not in another (for no reason). Therefore, just because Alefantis likes Pan, does not necessarily imply he likes Baphomet. And since Pan doesn't even have historical pedophillic significance, it implies nothing about whether or not Alefantis is a pedophile.
And, let me say it again, even if Alefantis came out saying he liked Baphomet himself, because occult practices are so varied with little rhyme or reason, it is not proof he is a pedophile. In his brand of occultism, maybe Baphomet does represent pedophilia, maybe he(/she) doesn't. Even if he did like Baphomet, that is not proof of anything. It is more circumstantial evidence, which is not actual evidence.
(And as evidence taken by itself, him expressing sympathy with Baphomet does not even necessarily imply he is an occultist. Baphomet is common knowledge to many people. To common person, who has only a brief familiarity with Baphomet and has only heard he(/she) is a symbol of enlightenment, being associated with true knowledge certainly doesn't sound like a bad thing to like. Of course, this is all a hypothetical comment, so it doesn't matter)
I made a reply in a word document with a transcript for the video along with links to all of the source material, but Voat isn't letting me paste that comment into here. I'll try to get it up when Voat lets me.
view the rest of the comments →
matt_frohlich ago
If anyone wants a more in depth explanation for what Pan (i.e. Baphomet) represents, here are a couple resources. James Alefantis is far from the only person who references Pan; you see these references fairly regularly in occult circles. And yes, many of the occult groups that reference Baphomet say questionable things that are on par with what you see in pizzagate.
From Vigilant Citizen (popular conspiracy theory blog): http://vigilantcitizen.com/hidden-knowledge/whoisbaphomet/
From my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4QFrdtkscI
thelastaelor ago
holy crap pan has absolutely nothing to do with baphomet
matt_frohlich ago
Do you have any evidence to prove me wrong? You may as well adopt the strategy of the MSM and accuse me of making fake news. At 4:08 in the video I cross-reference Albert Pike's work with that of Eliphias Levi to argue the connection between Pan and Baphomet. Both of these men were prominent occultists that continue to be influential.
thelastaelor ago
I'm not going to watch your video. If you bring up anything other than did the article, I humbly request you explain it in text.
Regarding the Vigilant Citizen link, I find this article insufficient evidence for the following reason, noted in the article itself:
I see nothing more than superficial coincidences, like having horns, linking these deities of vastly different domains across thousands of years. Pan is an old fertility god. Most likely far older than even the classical greeks. Pan is associated with the phallus... as are half of these greek deities. And I see no references about pedophilia.
Does Alefantis associate Pan with Baphomet? Maybe. Who knows what faux-beliefs he has? But because there's no link from Pan to Baphomet, him liking Pan does not prove anything.
And even if Alefantis was tied to Baphomet... or even came out and said "I love Satan," that's not illegal. It's just more circumstantial evidence suggesting child abuse to add to the pile.
matt_frohlich ago
Logical fallacy: refusal to acknowledge conflicting evidence. I even directed you to the part of the video to skip to. It will take 3 minutes to watch tops.
Logical fallacy: strawman argument. The links I provided in the original comment were to argue two overall points:
1.) That Pan and Baphomet are synonymous in modern occult circles
2.) What Baphomet represents
You argued against the first point by using evidence that existed to prove the second point.
thelastaelor ago
I'm not refusing to acknowledge conflicting evidence, I'm refusing to add to your view count. I've spent time on writing (and rewriting) this text, surely you can return the favor, if you indeed have anything new to say which the article did not already.
Not really a strawman but OK, I'll address your concern:
I'm fairly certain that how you intended to use your evidence has itself no bearing on the logical validity of how I choose to use it.
I'll try and spell this out a little more clearly:
Pan and Baphomet are not synonomous in modern occult circles. This is because there is no such thing as a single 'modern occult circle'. (this is actually a strawman, fyi). As the article suggests, modern occult practices are varied. There is no universally true link from worship of Pan to worship of Baphomet. Occultists will essentially use whatever they think is cool, and will adopt whatever symbols they feel like, even if the historical use of a symbol is completely contrary to their aims. Even if Pan and Baphomet have a connection in one occult circle, they may not in another (for no reason). Therefore, just because Alefantis likes Pan, does not necessarily imply he likes Baphomet. And since Pan doesn't even have historical pedophillic significance, it implies nothing about whether or not Alefantis is a pedophile.
And, let me say it again, even if Alefantis came out saying he liked Baphomet himself, because occult practices are so varied with little rhyme or reason, it is not proof he is a pedophile. In his brand of occultism, maybe Baphomet does represent pedophilia, maybe he(/she) doesn't. Even if he did like Baphomet, that is not proof of anything. It is more circumstantial evidence, which is not actual evidence. (And as evidence taken by itself, him expressing sympathy with Baphomet does not even necessarily imply he is an occultist. Baphomet is common knowledge to many people. To common person, who has only a brief familiarity with Baphomet and has only heard he(/she) is a symbol of enlightenment, being associated with true knowledge certainly doesn't sound like a bad thing to like. Of course, this is all a hypothetical comment, so it doesn't matter)
matt_frohlich ago
I made a reply in a word document with a transcript for the video along with links to all of the source material, but Voat isn't letting me paste that comment into here. I'll try to get it up when Voat lets me.