Listen, I know you want to keep things organized and on point. But there is a fine line between that, and simply deleting people's thoughts because you find them to be unworthy of whatever standards you are applying.
I am not trying divide us or cause distrust toward you KingKongisWrong. I am writing this to you to let you know that you need to ease up on the deletions.
Not for altruistic reasons, but for the sake of the longevity of this investigation itself.
When you are too heavy-handed with deletions, it causes distrust, and eventually it stifles the thread.
So what I am asking you is this. Even if you see something that YOU perceive to be totally worthless or off-target, do not simply delete it. We are rational adults here. The things we find valuable, will rise to the top; that which we don't, will sink.
I am appealing to your sense of practicality here. The most prudentially wise decision would be to take a hands-off approach to moderating, clear cases of shill-posting would be the main exception.
Deleting stuff just because you personally don't find it relevant or valuable is crossing the line and subjecting all of us to your whims. We are pleading with you to please be more sensible about this.
This is a former mod and top contributor at /r/Pizzagate before we were all banned.
We're counting on you. With great power comes great responsibility.
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Spuddlebuns ago
If people would STICK TO THE SUBJECT, things would not have to be deleted.
It's not that hard. The TOPIC IS #PIZZAGATE. Not YouTube theories about satanism, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY RELATING TO #PIZZAGATE...Not Ping Pong parlors in California, with "threatening" shadows, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY RELATING TO #PIZZAGATE...Not moronic rants about "pizzazombies," UNLESS....shit, don't you comprehend what this is about???
STAY FOCUSED, STAY ON TOPIC, and deletion will not be necessary...
The Rules for Submission (on the right, in the side bar, under /v/pizzagate rules ) apply to everyone. The special snowflakes who think their tidbit of non-related but interesting information have to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Get over yourselves. Or go to some other pizzagate discussion. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
PizzaGateXI ago
This subverse is compromised. We just had a huge influx of new mods right after people started complaining about " antisemitism" and how " antisemitic" users should be banned and now all of a sudden all the submissions that reference Judaism are being deleted by the new mods.
This subverse is compromised and I won't stop informing everybody.
Spuddlebuns ago
Lovely. Consider everyone informed. NOW, what does all this "compromising" have to do with #pizzagate? Other than crying about mods and how stupid posts that contribute nothing but "the joos are behind it ALL!" are being (rightfully) deleted, HOW are you ADDING to the discussion? And by ADDING, I mean providing INFORMATION to help prove the #pizzagate is not a fantasy? If you can't do that, STFU now.
Chad_Stethoscope ago
The reason for the recent influx of many new people to Voat from Eddit is due to the censorship and ultimate closing of /r/pizzagate, as well as fallout from the shadoweditgateapocalypse. To come here and immediately witness censorship in /v/pizzagate is a very unwelcome sight indeed.
OP is astutely correct in stating that the built-in system of upvotes/downvotes is meant to avoid the need for heavy-handed moderator involvement and deletion of posts/comments.
Censorship is a BIG issue for alot of people right now, so I also appreciate if people point out when they believe the integrity of something to be comprimised. I won't automatically believe this assertion, but I appreciate it being brought to my attention so I can further investigate for myself.
This also heightens community scrutiny and awareness should any new evidence of shady practices come to light. It is vitally important to remain steadfastly vigilant of those with even a modicum of power.
Spuddlebuns ago
I think people are confusing the issue here which is #pizzagate, with the underlying unhappiness with Reddit.
Also, the censorship and ultimate deletion of #pizzagate at Reddit was done allegedly over the publishing of "personal information," while the censorship/deletion of posts here at VOAT are more related to off-topic and unrelated information. Additionally, Reddit never offered access to deleted posts, UNLIKE HERE, where anyone who want to can click the "Removed Submissions" and/or the "Removed Comments" links on the RH sidebar, and SEE what was removed. This information has NOT been shitcanned into oblivion, so much as it has been removed from where it did not belong. So, TECHNICALLY, what many are decrying as "CENSORSHIP," really isn't. It is like when forum posts are in the wrong sub forum, and so are moved out of said wrong subforum. They are NOT deleted, just removed from where they do not belong.
All the caterwauling of this subverse being compromised is blowing smoke up your ass, and expecting you to think your shit is on fire. The rules for submission are CLEARLY posted, nothing secret, nothing untowards, and nothing extraordinarily repressive. STAY ON TOPIC. Basically that is the #1 main rule. If what you are posting HERE is NOT SPECIFICALLY related to #pizzagate, and again, the key word is SPECIFICALLY, it gets removed to the pile of "removed submissions" or "removed comments." Again, nothing sinister, nothing hidden. It is what it is, and it is CLEARLY spelled out for ALL to read and heed.
The people whining the loudest about this, and screaming for removal of the mods, and telling OTHERS to leave the subverse, while THEY remain to whine some more, are the people who simply REFUSE to play by the ESTABLISHED rules.
I don't know who gave the impression that #pizzagate here on VOAT was some free-form, anything goes, post any shit you like, free for all. But it's not. Again, CLEARLY printed on the side bar is the purpose of this subverse:
This subverse is for the investigation of and dissemination of information related to #pizzagate.
Key Word: "RELATED." Not weird off the wall ramblings about the Talmud. Not vague and rambling "maybe," or "possibly," or unverifiable rumors or innuendo. SPECIFICALLY relating to #pizzagate. The REMOVAL (NOT deletion) of irrelevant and unrelated information, regardless HOW interesting the poster may feel it to be, is NOT censorship, since the posts STILL EXIST. Moving information that is posted in the wrong place is not suppressing it, which is the definition of "censorship." So much of the concern and unhappiness and complaining about censorship here is misplaced.
Please DO investigate for yourself. That is one of the main goals of this #pizzagate subverse, to let people investigate and draw their own conclusions. But that should ALSO apply to those who are screaming CENSORSHIP, and crying that their "free speech" is somehow being stifled. No it isn't. It is just being removed from this particular venue, SOLELY because it does NOT advance the investigation of #pizzagate, and is obfuscating the more important investigations going on, by the posting of irrelevant and unrelated bullshit.
As for the gallant, yet misplaced sense of "frontier justice" spouted by so many about this subverse suffering from "abuse of power," the fact remains that THIS subverse CLEARLY states its purpose and its Rules for Submission. Those who cry the loudest seem to be those who cannot follow simple rules, and think that complaining will make the rules not apply to them. No one forced anyone to be here, just as no one is preventing them from leaving. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you cannot follow the rules, and do not like the consequences, please DO leave. You will not change the rules as they have been presented to us all, and you will NOT be allowed to break them with impunity. Your "free speech" is intact. Your irrelevant or unrelated submissions and comments are STILL on VOAT, just not here in #pizzagate. As has been suggested several times by others, go start your own subverse if you don't like this one. Preserve your image of what "free speech" means to you. But no one here needs your "steadfast vigilance" about those in power. This subverse was NOT created for YOU. The vast majority of members here (both Redditfugees and folk from the outside world) seem to have no issue with the subverse staying On Topic and On track. And, contrary to the complaints, those posts removed (which are still viewable), are not appropriate for THIS subverse. So maybe those unhappy should go start their own "FREE pizzagate," and repost their rants, their weird unrelated YouTube video links, and all the rest of it, for their perusal and appreciation. THIS is not the place, and the mods here are doing a fine job of helping to keep the "noise" to a dull roar, so that those of us who ARE capable of following the SIMPLE RULES, can continue to post, and investigate, and discuss, without the distractions said "noise" was creating.
If people would apply half their concern and complaining about censorship to simply staying focused on the topic and NOT cluttering up the place with irrelevant and unrelated stuff, this whole situation would most likely fade away. STAY FOCUSED, and stop trying to derail the subverse with subversive clap trap about non-existent censorship. Click the links on the right and accept that the information was moved because it didn't belong HERE. But it was NOT deleted.
And if you don't agree and you don't approve, then don't be here. We won't miss you leaving. Promise. NONE of us is that important. Get over yourselves.
Spuddlebuns ago
"OP is astutely correct in stating that the built-in system of upvotes/downvotes is meant to avoid the need for heavy-handed moderator involvement and deletion of posts/comments." Says WHO? Upvotes/downvotes are only to show which topics/comments are "popular." They in NO WAY eliminate the need for moderator involvement. That is the purpose of the RULES FOR SUBMISSION. If people would SIMPLY follow the rules, moderator involvement would not be needed hardly at all, heavy-handed or otherwise.
Where the fuck did you come up with that upvote/downvote bullshit? #pizzagate is NOT a popularity subverse. Go try "hot or naw" for that shit.
Chad_Stethoscope ago
The upvote/downvote comment was in relation to people whining about space being taken up by 'fake news'. If the front page of each subverse isn't some popularity contest, then why have voting at all? People push that 'up' vote for posts they think are important. They push the 'down' vote for unworthy posts.
Nowhere did I say that this subverse was made FOR me. That is a blatant strawman fallacy. I stated that I don't need others to decide FOR me what I see or not.
You come in with a sarcastic shit attitude and tell people to "STFU now." That is unhelpful. I do appreciate you pointing out that deleted posts and comments are still available to view. That is helpful. It's good to know there is one more layer of accountability.
My point, which seems to have been lost in this, is that if Moderators are heavy-handed in deleting things, it will result in posts exactly like this one, which can create mistrust and divides within the community, and as you point out, takes time and energy away from valuable legitimate research.
You are the one attacking and trying to stifle conversation and telling others to leave this subverse. From a brief scan of your history you don't seem to be here to cause trouble, so how about a little mutual respect and tone down the sarcasm and negativity a bit? Please.
We're all here to deal with some heavy stuff and it can get people on edge, we should be able to rely on each other for support, not become hostile toward each other.