I can't stand by and watch stuff like this happen around here. I will not support subverses (by featuring them or making them defaults) with moderators who impose questionable rules such as "your post has to end with a questionmark". Moderators need to calm their tits and focus on nurturing and growing their communities. Rules can always be bent and what better time to bend the rules then now, while Voat is still growing and under development?
I am thankful for moderators who help keep Voat spam-free and I respect your work. I really do. I started working on automoderator for comments and submissions and your job will be made much easier when this is implemented, but for the time being, moderators need to relax and focus on removing spam and eventual illegal content. If I submit a new post and it gains some traction (hundreds of comments, views and upvoats), and my post gets removed because I broke a rule by forgetting to include a question mark in my submission title... well, I would be pissed. People take removal of their comments and submissions very seriously and moderators must think twice before removing stuff if they want to avoid offending users. Voat has a ranking process where time acts as gravity and older posts will eventually fall off the frontpage. Voat also has automatic public moderation logs and everything you remove will still be visible in these modlogs and your actions may be questioned by the community, just like what happened yesterday.
This action can be reverted if /askvoat mods can convince us that the issue has been dealt with or if some other, less restrictive community takes over.
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TheKillerRabbit ago
We need to institute a system where the subscribers can elect/kick out mods through voting. Subs turn to shit when mods are allowed to go unchecked for their actions. Thank you Atko for showing us that you don't take kindly to mod abuse.
SpaceRosa ago
And how do you stop it turning into a popularity contest? Worse, how do you make sure the better mod comes out on top and not the mod who panders to whatever the circlejerk/popular attitudes are at the time? You'd never see a more liberal moderator voted in by people on this website, even if they were absolutely the most fit for the job. People are too quick to associate that with thier boogeyman SJWs.
TheKillerRabbit ago
In the long term, it is better to have a democracy than an authoritarian regime simply due to the fact that you can vote the shitty people out. I'm not saying we let everyone vote. Just people who have garnered a certain amount of CCP, who therefore have some credibility in that sub. The fact that transparent modlogs exist, and that these elections could happen anytime, means mods are constantly in the danger of getting voted out of office if they show abuse.
SpaceRosa ago
Is it worth it to get rid of the shitty ones to potentially get rid of good ones, too? I suppose that would be up to everyone's individual judgement.
Either way, I don't think it'll work. Credibility in a subverse is all well and good, but it's not that simple. Of course people are going to be biased. That's what humans do. How would you make a democratic system without creating a lot of difficulty for people who dare to have different viewpoints than the majority? Being a democracy means that the minority will always get fucked, because it's the majority's opinion that decides it.
TheKillerRabbit ago
So we just let the minority rule over the majority? As a libertarian, I want to see the people decide for themselves. If the majority demands change, then change should happen. I don't really think the minority will get fucked as they can simply leave and create their own sub. If people are to be biased, then it is their right to be biased. I don't want some tyrannical minority trying to decide what I like.
SpaceRosa ago
I didn't say that. Don't jump to conclusions, especially not something so reversed.
My point is that I think they will get fucked. How is it any good to leave and create their own subverse? Why should they have to do that? Because they're not in line enough? Nobody will go to a copy subverse that someone created just so they could me the mod of something. This is going to fuck people who don't fall in line if it gets implemented. I'm certain of that.
TheKillerRabbit ago
Everyone has the the right to enjoy whatever they want to enjoy. I don't really see how they would get fucked when they have the right to leave at anytime. Why should they stick around a sub where they don't fall in line when they can go join a sub where they can enjoy talking to other likeminded people? I'm certain nobody will get fucked by having elections.
On the other hand, the power the mods have means that they have the ability to fuck over the entire sub. Although I concede that elections will turn to circlejerks, there has to be an accountability system in place for these people. Even if we managed to unseat an abusive mod, who will decide who gets to be the new mod? The other mods? They might share the same biases as the older mod and might just put in a new abusive mod to take their place. We should at least institute a referendum system where mods that abuse can be kicked out.
TheBuddha ago
You, my good sir, take the internet way too seriously. I have been here since the beginning of internet time - before there was a WWW. If you are unhappy then you have only one real choice - make your own site. If others like it then you will have company. If they do not then you will be in the corner playing with yourself BUT you will be happy. A reasonably compromise might be to make your own subverse and regulate it as you see fit. Others may join, in time...
TheKillerRabbit ago
I'm just saying my two cents. In general, I agree with the direction that Voat is headed. I still have the right to criticize anything that I do not like.