Voat, the student side-project is now Voat, Inc.! (announcements)

submitted ago by Atko

We’ve been through a lot lately: our servers got shut down, PayPal froze our donation funds, our servers were hit with several sustained DDoS attacks and even our bitcoin wallet, along with the wallet of Wikileaks was hit with a dust attack…

We received many donations via Bitcoin and Dogecoin and these will help pay for our biggest hosting bill in history of Voat. We’ve also received hundreds and hundreds of emails from people willing to donate and help support Voat, asking about alternative ways to donate as they find crypto currency to be a hassle to use.

For the last 2 years, Voat has been just a student side project. That left us open to personal liability and headaches in the long run. As of today, Voat Voat, Inc. is no longer a student side project but a corporation registered in the U.S.

Why the U.S.? Switzerland seemed like a great option in the beginning, but when it comes to freedom of speech, the main idea behind Voat, U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched. The First Amendment is very clear about this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Incorporating in the U.S. brings us closer to cheaper infrastructure (Silicon Valley anyone?), gives us more financial options, and will allow our community more protections.

So now what?

So now we can work towards providing a sustainable model for Voat. We can provide better donation options for those who have asked for it. We can build systems into Voat that can help offset hosting costs. We can provide merchandise goods if people want to support Voat in that way. We can hopefully start hiring soon and get out of Alpha!

To celebrate the founding we will be opening up registrations at random times during the following days as we work towards opening up permanently once again. No announcements will be posted concerning when registrations will be enabled as the duration and times this happens will be controlled by an automated process using random algorithms.

RaulRadhe ago

It is greatly appreciated for all those longs hours of hard work for every line of code that has been done to manifest this ideal platform for free speech. The internet thanks you!

liver_stream ago

I still don't understand why you don't allow advertising on the side. A box clearly marked as advertising. Advertisers don't get a say on content, and since your not 100% dependent on it, if advertisers want to advertise they can and if they don't like the content then they can cancel anytime they like. I can't see a problem with advertising as long as they have no say in content?

Potstocks ago

Congrats guys, big stuff!

bami ago

If I only could comment, but no your cloudfare "protection" is giving me 403s on everything.

I'm done with this shit site. Good luck incorporating cancer.

LawyersPlayDota ago

Great to hear. You guys have been incredible since I joined :)

TinDog ago

Test

IBGoghingham ago

Fuck PayPal, hard. What a gigantic money racket operating on the fringes of legality. Imagine if you went to the bank and you had to guess at whether you could get your money out a) a month from now or b) never.

DrBunsen ago

U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched

I do like to know what countries you researched

DickHertz ago

Congrats! This will be a good project to study since it's .NET with EF at scale.

DickHertz ago

Too bad \v\livedebates is allowed to spam politics among other subs trying to get people interested in their stupid bullshit. It would be nice not to read all their garbage and have someone tell them to cut the shit or else the sub gets deleted.

boomuh ago

Do you have a general idea of how you will set up the hiring process or what positions you will be looking to fill?

IceDeep ago

Glad to be here..

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire

getfitroxana ago

Random complaint to rain on your parade: So, I can't upvote posts that I've already read to keep track of them without having enough "participating points"... I can't hide posts I've already read to keep track of them... how the fuck am I supposed to read through a sub's posts if I can't fucking keep track of them? I don't just want to read the new stuff or the hot stuff, I want to go through the old stuff, and I would like to do it without waiting a day or two for the karma whoring to set in.

Bedlore ago

but a corporation registered in the U.S. This belongs in /v/wtf where have you guys been for the last few years? NSA gag order anyone.

QMaster ago

This is great news! Thanks for creating a space for people to discuss ideas openly!

WastedCanadian ago

You guys are doing great! I love Voat!

briibeezieee ago

Thanks Atko :)

IntrinsicFactorSucks ago

"Fighting words" are an American joke. Fuck you George W Bush and John Roberts, killing my freedom of speech.

TheShnig ago

Nice. Chattanooga, TN has municipal fiber as another inexpensive alternative. I think they and RTP benefit from far lower costs of living and real estate prices.

Voaterboy ago

Great news to hear :D

exelmans ago

Posting in historic thread.

whatwedontknow ago

First impression: Voat sucks even worse ass than Reddit.

whatwedontknow ago

You can't even reach any so-called controversial so-called subverses.

whatwedontknow ago

"Your user preferences are set to hide adult content." Yet there is no way to edit them. Stupid stinking bastards.

zondor ago

Squirting is piss.

Zatherz ago

I should not have come to this thread while eating

JoelTheSuperior ago

Yup. Still seems odd to me that that's illegal though.

Some people might be into what you find to be weird shit but so what? Let them enjoy it in peace if that's what they're into.

zondor ago

Yeah. It's not my thing but I don't care if other people are into it.

Kreinas ago

Great to hear!

Karlsson ago

6 days and counting... I'm not even subscribed to "announcements"... this is annoying.

OtakuYunoGasai_ ago

Why would someone ddos this site? I don't see a reason to dislike this place. . .

theredditadmin ago

Damn, from student project to real corporation that's every students dream and you managed achieve it. Hopefully i can achieve something big dont mess things up like reddit did

PuddleDuck ago

ICEBERG AHEAD!

equilibrium ago

Why did paypal freeze your acct. ? I fucking hate paypal.

VillaLopez ago

im sick of seeing this, so i downvoat it and im not allowed to. Fucking fuck fuck.

MrHairyBrit ago

Congratulations lads!!! Loving the site and hope to be around for the long haul :)

Anyone want some cake?

PossAbilities ago

Title: We're a corporation now.

Text: US based

Comments: Fanbois

Voat is kill, it may take a few years to die, but you just pulled the trigger.

duglock ago

Great news. Soon as hosting is reliable the sky is the limit.

clonex10100 ago

So far I'm liking what I see!!!

corentin ago

guys are you sure voat will take off ? i use it when reddit is down or when i reached the frontpage but last week voat was dead, most posts had <100 votes / were too old :/

eslamyosef ago

Finally, the free amazing community is official and open, great news and congrats :D

SandorClegane ago

Does that mean you're free from the EU's influence now when it comes to what subs to host, even if you live there?

Sites like Derpibooru and ge hentai have decided in recent times not to allow loli because the owners live in the UK, and Rule34 is recently facing a lot of hassle due to similar issues. I know UK's laws are tougher than EU's but are you susceptible to the same thing re "hate speech" laws?

Why the hell do the best people for the internet have to live in the worst places for internetting? Man, couldn't ya'll be from Finland or something. I think it's high time for someone to pool enough money to buy 3 or 4 anti-air/anti-sub cruisers, slap a server farm on there, and declare themselves a rogue nation. We got any eclectic extravagant billionaires in the area?!?

TheGreatRoh ago

So glad, I hope you guys grow bigger.

SaneGoatiSwear ago

whalesongmakesmyday ago

May his merciful shadow fall upon you.....oh yeah and keep it goin.....

Nesano ago

I love to see this place start to take off. You guys seem to be taking this seriously and I've got high hopes for your future.

SamSneed ago

Congrats. Job well done.

lifts glass

Poebat ago

Yay! Voat Inc! One step closer to get out of alpha! mahhhhhh

TheRealRipster ago

Congrats!

Please consider giving out invitations to members here. Nothing beats person to person marketing.

bareknuckledragon ago

Congratulations!

g253 ago

Congratulations! You could have easily crumbled under the pressure, and you pulled through. Well done.

taco ago

Its just a matter of how long it will take. :/ (about voat turning into reddit) the wiki model is a good idea, too bad the decision has been made.

ginx2666 ago

That's my point. Although in this case, I'd rather be wrong...

ginx2666 ago

So what you said was that anonymity and morality can't occur together. Hence my confusion.

Anonymity and lawfulness are mutually exclusive. You can't have total anonymity (and it's not anonymity at all if it's not absolute) without breaking laws, or at least raising flags. You also can't remain lawful without sacrificing anonymity.

ginx2666 ago

I meant that they absolutely are mutually exclusive.

Anonymity means you're completely hidden from government's prying eyes. All governments across the world are control freaks, and sometimes they outright outlaw anonymity, or at least do whatever they can to monitor every aspect of citizens' lives. Anonymity becomes a crime by proxy.

Of course, anonymity by itself isn't a moral concept - it's absolutely disconnected from morality. It's a neutral concept, and it can be used for good and evil.

ginx2666 ago

The very idea of anonymity and privacy is immoral? Is that what you're saying?

Not at all, but thanks for putting words in my mouth (not really thanks).

Anonymity might be unlawful.
But laws are made by people, sometimes corrupt people, and laws don't have to be just.

So...for example, political dissenters from an oppressive nation needing to get word out to the world anonymously...that's immoral to you?

It might be unlawful. It is however moral... unless they do more harm than good by that (let's say they reveal some essential, military data that results in decimation of whole contingent of soldiers, or reveal a security hole that ends being exploited by hostile parties and ends in civilian casualties).

pippanumber3 ago

I wish voat the best!

st1n ago

What are the chances for a censorship like reddit after the incorporation?

Anchy ago

i would say, very small

st1n ago

why do you think that? reddit too was once not censored, but then it got too big.

zoni ago

I'm sure Norway would be a great option.

skilliard ago

How much does it cost to host voat nowadays?

ginx2666 ago

Anonymity and lawfulness are mutually exclusive. If Iceland cooperated with anyone by publishing any data of any users for any reason, that disqualifies them as a privacy heaven. Drug trafficking? CP? Selling kinder eggs to US? Doesn't fucking matter - the idea of anonymity and privacy is not a moral concept.

garryorlarry ago

Does voat still have the page that lists the number of government requests for information and what was handed over?

RapeApe ago

Ok guys I'm having some fucken problems with Win7.

-Windows Module installer is set on manual in the services, but whenever I install something it gets initiating in the taskmanager, but then after the install it still sticks around, doing nothing and taking up CPU. So everytime I have to fucken install something, I have to then go on task manager and stop windows module installer. It's like adding a manual transmission or something for my OS

-My service host is taking up way too much CPU (more than before) and it just causes my computer to overheat all the time

-WMI Host is also an annoyance that doesn't do anything but eat my CPU (though I now it's necessary for things like speccy, but outside of that it doesn't need to write).

Fuck windows man.

taco ago

Why are you posting this here?

wakayoda ago

Congratulations :)

Karlsson ago

Well that's nice and all but does this really need to be a sticky for over 3 days?!

Reed_Solomon ago

Congrats!

SirFarticus ago

So what happens to the old Voat in Switzerland? Does the company get dissolved? I'm not really sure how transfers are done for companies and the like.

Stabzy ago

Who were they getting attacks from and why?

Gragorin ago

Thanks for all of the hard work you all have done over the past 2 years for the site and putting up with all of us interlopers.. :)

goodyear ago

Yay congrats guys! Been peering in from the outside the last week or so and am excited to finally be able to register!

glimmandenymf ago

What does this mean for content policy? Have you figured out if you're personally responsible for things that users post etc? Will voat be a "bastion of free speech" or not?

ginx2666 ago

Voat, Inc. is no longer a student side project but a corporation registered in the U.S.

Oh shit, that means you're subject to increasingly more retarded US laws. Couldn't you register and host it in a country less hell bent on censorship than US?
Like Iraq for example?

taco ago

Iraq?

Driverdc5 ago

Congrats guys

Garwald ago

Just came back to revisit voat and see where it's at. This is awesome to see congrats on turning a student side project into a corporation. Quite the accomplishment that you should be proud of!

Scubaloon ago

Please change the front colors of the website and titles. I can't see/read them!

Crusader ago

I love it, good job.

ago ago

we **love **voat!!!

ev1lb1t ago

When is the "bit checker" going to go away? One of my subs was migrating from reddit, and the bit-checker put a stop to a bot which was syncing the two subs.

atvoat ago

Try https://cash.me/ for donations... as a company you need to pay a small fee to Cash but they do a great job of making it easy to send and receive money. Give it a try.

llagerlof ago

Nice tip. Thanks.

Cantbebothered ago

So, let me get this straight: Does this mean that you're only planning on re-opening voat for registrations after you've moved your business to san francisco?

hyliandanny ago

Congratulations!

dr_hoo ago

why US?? why do you think the great reddit voat migration started? mostly because US based companies are compromised.

at least you let us know kindly and fast enough, thank you and goodbye.

KingCactus ago

Congrats. Just don't forget about us little people.

mogan ago

Congratulations! I'm so happy to see Voat Inc. the home of the Voat Goat on the rise! Upgoats all around!

Clbull ago

Would you consider a premium membership service with additional user features?

FuckRedditSJWFaggots ago

Now that you're opening yourself up to VC's in Silicon Valley... How do we know you won't end up like reddit and ban free speech that you do not like because some advertiser doesn't like some of your subs?

greymanbomber ago

So basically your going to be like Reddit now and be a business ;) I imagine that now you have to ban subreddits that go way out of line and are deemed extremely offensive and its members threaten others on Voat... Well, when those subreddits do that of course~

JustinIZHere ago

I'm pretty happy Voat exist with all the shit that has been going on with Reddit lately and the new nazi CEO fishing for them advertising bucks. Hopefully people migrate off Reddit to voat in the coming months.

413729220 ago

So I have to admit, I am on the fence about switching to Voat. I really want to, but the thing is I have become so used to RES for reddit that I just cannot use Voat without something similar. A lot of the features are built in, which is great, but the main ones that every RES user utilizes really need to be implemented first :(

To give examples of the most used RES features: View all pictures is the biggest. Account switching is another (although I can see why this might not be native due to spammers). And finally: Filters!

vanzant ago

Congratulations.

TheVillain61 ago

Sure non profit organisations can be profitable, look at mega churches in the US. Pastors with mega houses, mega bank accounts, mega private jets etc.

BananaBoater ago

Love it keep up the good work

birdkiller299 ago

long live the bastion of free speech

Jason_Gomes ago

Registration is now open!! GOGOGO!

atw ago

Why the U.S.? Switzerland seemed like a great option in the beginning, but when it comes to freedom of speech, the main idea behind Voat, U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched. The First Amendment is very clear about this:

Americans should be proud of this. One of the last countries in the world not to have enacted laws that pander to the perpetually offended.

Angela- ago

I know I'm super late to the party but that's just because I'm super cool but any word on the official Voat t-shirts...?

TheLordYourGod ago

<3 love this site already.

DioSama ago

I noped out of Reddit because of todays content policy. I'm in for a wild ride.

GrimWTF ago

Congratulations Atko on your incorporation!

Palaxar ago

Looking forward to the future, hopefully you can get things taken off and are able to find financial income to keep this fantastic site afloat.

n4ru ago

THANK YOU so much for reconsidering Switzerland and switching to the US for your hosting!

GeneralBoobington ago

and where the hell did you come from?

ilovecreamsoda ago

well done, atko. congratulations.

ripfreespeech ago

Bravo!

I feel really excited to be here. I hope you will always stick to your goal of freedom of speech but hopefully you'll be motivated by the failures of your direct competition.

Cantbebothered ago

So are you guys re opening voat for business or what?

Straatman ago

I would love a chance to work for Voat!

2314234234 ago

My guess is they are looking more at the financial factors than anything else. No surprise that they specifically mention Silicon Valley since that is where lots of VC firms are located.

malandric ago

claps we made it. What's the links to donate? I had no idea I could help.

duc ago

but when it comes to freedom of speech, the main idea behind Voat, U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched. The First Amendment is very clear about this:

I am sorry (more like disappointed really) but this make zero sense. You are saying the first amendment is clear, but the USA's track record is much clearer. I think you dropped the ball in this one and this whole thing reads like excuses, excuses. If you want to live in California just say so, don't twist things.

Good luck with the stillborn site. Don't say nobody warned you.

laliberteandjustice ago

Thank you for creating this safe space for Reddit veterans to recuperate. I appreciate what you've done, Atko.

SuperClever ago

congratulations!! this is really exciting.

Jawzper ago

nothing says "i am threatened by you" like a DDoS attack

hoat ago

If you think Silicon Valley is cheap, you're gonna have a bad time.

Daeurth ago

Congrats on your incorporation!

Phuck_Reddit ago

I was down with the goat before it was cool. Seriously, I wish you guys nothing but the best.

GeneralBoobington ago

who the fuck are you? you ain't homeboy.

ChamberedCuttlefish ago

I seriously love you guys, this is such a helpful and kind community, I am so glad that Voat exists. Thank you guys!

NanoCat ago

Give us an address we can send cash to. That'll help with donations!

hairless_rock_ape ago

Thank you for providing a platform where free speech is encouraged and supported!

Seruun ago

Merchandise is a neat idea, how about goat plushies?

abruski ago

You should have stayed anon.

Mysterian ago

'MERICA!!!!

1smartass ago

Everyone, don't whine about advertising like Reddit tried to do for years, encourage Voat to learn how to incorporate advertising into this sort of website.

It's how magazines and newspapers primarily funded/fund themselves, so why should it be any different online?

As long as they're not intrusive, bring it on.

Pissed-Off-Panda ago

'MURICA!

This is great news all around! Congrats to you guys.

FromThatOtherSite ago

The US? Shit. Everyone make anti-American posts in this chain while you still can!

EpicGizmo ago

Internet censorship and surveillance by country

Well, here the US are listed as "Current Enemies of the Internet"

World Press Freedom Index

aristarch ago

Please don't sell for as long as possible!

RaxSnax ago

Are you serious? That's fucking bullshit.

RaxSnax ago

I, for one, would. As long as they aren't flashy "DOWNLOAD OUR APP!" kind of ads I'm 100% for it. Though I know Atko and co. are much smarter than that.

tribblepuncher ago

@Atko, @PuttItOut - First off I would like to thank you for all you've done here. I think you've done the Internet at large a service.

However, I sincerely hope that this is redundant, but I need to warn you of something. I have heard of many situations where a single person or small group had a company incorporated around their project - and as a result a bunch of businessmen stole it from them legally, because the incorporation gave them an opportunity. They didn't necessarily start with the ability to do that, but they acquired it through a variety of means, e.g. provisions in the corporation's charter, or raising a large percentage of the stock than the founder(s). The result was that the founder(s) are/were removed forcibly or pushed aside to the point of irrelevance. Apple Computer was a very famous example of that with Steve Jobs. He got lucky; after being thrown out, he clawed his way back in and took over the company over a decade later. Most people in such a position are not so fortunate, but it is better still if they never get into that position to begin with.

As such, please be careful. I don't want you to be "rewarded" for it by being thrown out on your ass. While I'd expect that most of the userbase would revolt and move on upon hearing about that, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the business people tried it anyway in hopes of making a quick buck, even if they burned voat.co to the ground in the process. You might even legally be unable to say anything for a while, making the process worse.

I have in fact even seen something similar to this close-up, and it was very, very ugly and unfortunate, but by the time it was noticed, nothing could be done. I am not trying to scare you, and I am not trying to be an alarmist. You two may have already put together something wherein your interests and control over the site are protected, or you retain a controlling percentage of the stock. I sincerely hope that you have. But I want you to know that people can and do take advantage of those in your position if proper care is not taken. That said, I wish you the best of luck, and once again, thank you.

TwentySeven ago

Congratulations and good luck in your endeavors!

Dead-Beat-Shit-Head ago

top notch .

un1ty ago

Congrats! Here's to a long and profitable future. Hope the site stays relatively uncensored.

Taliaferro ago

'merica welcomes you.

swfreak ago

Thank you atko and voat for providing a free speech platform. Reddit has unfortunately succumb to pressures for censorship and political control of the content users get to see.

Baconpotpie ago

I am happy to say I was here for it all. The countdown begins. Until then enjoy the ride.

maciozo ago

The US? Fuck off.

Scurvy_dog ago

Atko;

You do realize you now have a whole effing internet army behind you!? Enjoy, and don't worry too much. You'r bench looks comfortable, by the way. Chill, Bro.

Tantalus ago

So it's an NSA paedophile meth lab?

goronmon ago

...they're either fibbing, or they didn't research many countries.

What countries have better or comparable free speech protections?

goronmon ago

Doesn't Singapore restrict free speech?

WeiDeli14 ago

No more than the US. Edit: This entire thread is based on a lie by the owner of this site. We now know that he never incorporated as he stated he did. An elaborate scam...

wuzizname ago

Congrats Atko! Thanks for everything you've done for us and all your hard work and dedication, the internet thanks you!

RedSocks157 ago

While we have cheaper infrastructure and the 1st Amendment theoretically protects you, I think you'll find that the US is a lot less free and you are a lot more vulnerable to lawsuits...

corduroy ago

Congratulations and good luck Atko!

forgetmyname ago

Playing right into Big Brothers Hands.

  1. destroy "reddit"
  2. ddos replacement "voat"
  3. offer solution in US jurisdiction
  4. Get legal backdoors.
  5. "Keep doing what we tell you or else"

angelus_72 ago

How does one invest in the new corporation?

Tantalus ago

How about you just tell me what it is? This is voat not reddit.

lovesyouandhugsyou ago

Or they had different priorities than you imagine. There really aren't many good alternatives in terms of free speech and safe harbor protections. For example, the European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly affirmed the rights of states to legislate against hate speech, blasphemy etc., so any signatory state to ECHR will have fewer free spech protections.

arijitdas ago

Congrats Atko. It feels great to know. :) Voat will go really high.

spacetiger ago

"We did it" Voat!

sweetholymosiah ago

Really short sighted reactions from users to the US based Voat Inc. You realize anybody can look at these webpages right? How many users are being tracked through your associations with google / microsoft etc, yet you are concerned about voat being a US corporation. The important issue will be funding methods, and pressure on the owners towards profit at the expense of... ???? NSA/Privacy issues are not relevant in this sense.

rockpyle ago

Congratulations on your incorporation.

U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched.

+1 for the good 'ol USA. I've been on the interwebs in one way, shape, or form for about 27 years and the United States takes a lot of flak from people within the country and around the world. We are not a perfect nation by any means but I truly believe that when it comes to fundamental rights that all people around the world should enjoy no other nation in the world does as good a job as the United States.

Cantbebothered ago

So are you going to reopen the site for registrations, or what?

wolfsgeist ago

Atko: Congratulations! Sounds like good things (on top of the great things we already have here) are on the way!

mukt ago

If one is looking for alternatives, I have been maintaining a small list for those of reddit. Voat had been on top till this. Zeefeed (#9), is my favourite among underdogs.

Comments, further suggestions, are welcome.

Antinous ago

Congratulations on your incorporation. And a great idea on the random limited registrations.

MaximumRex ago

Best of luck!

stormking ago

GG. it was nice while it lasted.

Firetail ago

Nice work Voat Inc!

Ulu-Mulu-no-die ago

Awesome news, live long and prosper! :)

dysfunctional_vet ago

We're gonna need a bigger Voat...

Tennis ago

I can haz job?

Amalshookup ago

Congrats guys

solidcountry ago

Great news. Can't wait to see the future of Voat

jeffmcneill ago

500 is the limit, but also there are rules about being registered/qualified investors or something if you are offering to a set of people. There could be another structure such as a cooperative. But if you are going to get outside investors (aka angel/vc) then they will want standard term sheets and control, of course. Suggest avoiding that route. Grow sustainably, organically, control your own destiny.

jeffmcneill ago

I believe it is the location of the servers that is important for what freedom of speech laws apply, not necessarily the place of company incorporation. The problem with America is NSA, of course, though that problem is in many places on the planet, it is much worse in the US. Also, copyright is one of the worst in the US. Citing the constitution is great but doesn't really apply when business are registered in specific states, which have their own laws. There is a lot of complexity here, that was not really considered. However, the fact that you needed to incorporate means getting it done was the priority. You can always incorporate later somewhere else, or have the servers somewhere else. That said, I think an LLC structure could have been better for you, at the beginning.

Kickinwing ago

Congratulations, I'm honored to be a part of Voat Inc.'s "wonder years"

petrifiedforest ago

Well done, good luck & thank you for putting so much into this platform.

Tantalus ago

If you're not going to tell me what it is they were doing all I can assume is that /r/conspiracy doxxed innocent people for no reason.

darwin_prime ago

This right here.

96threpublic ago

I guess this isn't a joke huh...

DoucheBagMcGee ago

So these attacks have sent you somewhere in the tune of $8000, and have been constant against VOAT and wikileaks. Wikileaks make me think it's a state actor, but why would VOAT be lumped in with them?

pequenopete ago

We’ve also received hundreds and hundreds of emails from people willing to donate and help support Voat, asking about alternative ways to donate as they find crypto currency to be a hassle to use.

Did you get anywhere with this?

norse ago

I want to donate!!!!!!!!!!!!

NinjaPoolboy ago

With all these reports of Bitcoin "Dust" flying around I can't help not having this running in my head... https://youtu.be/80GTu16Wc4s

ratzp0li ago

Dat free speech Kreygasm

Long live Voat.

Granitosaurus ago

this didn't really work out for John Snow :(

BrianFellow ago

Plus, it inspired the song Chattanooga Choo Choo!

darkrxn ago

Probable a Goldielocks city for Google Fiber, just a guess. If so, then Google fiber was praying companies like Voat Inc would choose Chattanooga over SF. This was the reason for the deal; the city will get tech jobs, Google will be known as a "king maker." Imagine Google Fiber building the next "motor city," type thing, like Bugsy made Vegas.

Ina_Pickle ago

Don't know for certain how involved Google was in the decision making process. My family lives there, and from what they've told me it was voted on and paid for by the locals. That city is always looking for someway to improve. They got a massive VW assembly plant in recent years as well.

TinDog ago

Sweet, I'm loving it here and I want to donate but im not going to mess around with the crypto money till it gets in line with my extreme lazyness.

HomerSimpson ago

Journalist Joshua Kopstein said he believed the government considered Brown to be a threat and suggested that its witnesses may have lied to secure his conviction

I didn't know claims from people unrelated to events were considered facts now...

Dadosaurus ago

Good luck guys.

I think the most important thing for you will be to come up with a monetization system that is not based on extortion or dependent on censorship. I'd recommend you review some of the services used for social free-to-play video-games to discover some sort of agency that can process international credit-card transactions.

I think voat "cheese" so some other sort of "golden" colored currency people could purchase would be a good short term solution.

I think another thing that has worked well for sites like craigslist is to have some pair subverses. Craigslist is mostly anti-censorship, but everyone knows that apartment listings are paid. That's considered fair without anyone crying censorship. If you had a few paid subverses that were clearly marked as paid subs, that might be considered an okay compromise as compared to banner ads, and, since the sites would be totally independent if choosing to buy a post in one of the premium subs, they'd have no recourse to demand censorship concessions in the rest of the site.

Just some ideas.

good luck

gamehelp16 ago

Congratulations!

HomerSimpson ago

Correct me if I am wrong but pretty sure copyright laws apply in a lot if not most countries.

And leaked photos were because of copyright. It was likely a legal grey area. I am not a lawyer so I only know as much as I have seen.

Ina_Pickle ago

lol

oftenmakesbadposts ago

Are you a corporation of Delaware? I see a lot of big companies do this. I'm not savvy on why it's better but it might be worth looking into. BTW everybody, Wal Mart is a corporation of Delaware though it is based in Arkansas.

Sorry if my post is shit. Want to give @Atko and @putitout opportunity if needed. If some law corporate law person wants to put me in my place I welcome it.

PuttItOut ago

Yes

37degrees ago

Congratulations! This is excellent news!

kgb_operative ago

It doesn't suddenly become apolitical just because it's what you agree with.

Goldenhavoc ago

This is awesome, great job guys!

somerandomteen ago

The name's Inc. Voat, Inc.

unsweetenedsoymilk ago

I have a programmer friend who works for a banking data center Arizona. He mentioned to me some time ago that many of the banks were thinking about relocating their data centers there due to favorable conditions. Seems like Apple and Microsoft are building data centers there too. I wonder which state did Atko incorporated Voat.co in? Because the last time I checked Nevada, Delaware and one other state (I forgot which one) were the best places (financially, ease and supportive/favorable laws) to do it.

GarrioValere ago

+1 for Phoenix

Targut ago

Due to your being incorporated in the US, please add a canary warning if still possible.

SocialistJW ago

Welcome to the real world, where adulthood means having to compromise your values to get what you want sometimes.

SocialistJW ago

cackling intensifies

SocialistJW ago

They are rights and freedoms ideologues.

That is a form of politics. Sorry.

Klaue ago

How is that disingenious? and how does fisting, one of the other things getting banned, look like piss? Why should piss be illegal to begin with?

antuna ago

Thank you and congratulations! I can't wait to see Voat continue to grow as a platform and a community.

escape ago

America! FUCK YEAH

1548965? ago

Congrats mate.

Though I am concerned you chose to target registration and funding in the US. You will face similar issues as to that other site in the long run.

But I guess it's up to you guys and I wish you the best of luck with your new venture.

MaunaLoona ago

The main idea behind Voat, U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched. The First Amendment is very clear about this

That might be true on paper...

PM_ME_UR_VAGINA ago

can someone upvote me please?

Hey_Sunshine ago

If you can articulate a well thought out reason for me to upvoat you, I will. (Fyi I've not yet begun to downvoat you, and they're meaningless really)

PM_ME_UR_VAGINA ago

the reason to upvote is so I can use the site without being crippled. fuck this site. reddit will be long dead before this site ever gets any traction.

Hey_Sunshine ago

Be the change you want to see, friend.

xxlthrowaway ago

Being used to VPN companies, it's odd to see the US being anyone's first choice.

RagnarDanneskjold ago

I think many people would definitely be interested.

El_Pantaloonio ago

I know I would.

hexydes ago

Texas has some good options (Austin). Seattle is also home to some big tech (Microsoft, Valve). On the east coast you have Boston with MIT. Short of that, just find yourself a college with a good Comp Sci program and is business/startup friendly. San Francisco is nice and obviously the hub of tech, but it's not without its problems (cost of living, echo chamber community) so I would agree with OP, there are other places besides Silicon Valley that you can and should explore.

echinos ago

Since when has the US constitution kept US Gov't from doing unconsitutional things? I mean, yeah, it looks good and all, but yeah. It's not rigorously held to.

arcticblue ago

My opinion, look at the Raleigh-Durham area instead of Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley is expensive and utterly infested with the ultra politically correct types. Raleigh is starting to boom and should be significantly cheaper.

honorkell ago

Hooray! Awesome! Keep fighting the good fight!

LizardBreathe ago

I don't know how I feel about incorporating here, particularly the basic 1st amendment quote as justification.

I hope all goes well.

DeliciousApples ago

Wait, where am I?!?!

Cutsprocket ago

congratulations!

batcountryharlot ago

Thank you for giving us a lovely place to be free, Atko... but. But. Do not make the mistakes Reddit did. I beg you.

frankenham ago

Ah yes, the beginning of the end. Now you'll have a CEO, lawyers, legal cases and so on before ads have to be carried in to fund the site then the sponsors start dictating what can and cannot be posted otherwise they'll pull their fundings which would destroy the site so you comply and before you know it we'll be back to square one with reddit 2.0

Tantalus ago

So what exactly was the daycare center doing?

Tantalus ago

It should be opt-out ads. If you don't have adblock installed then you consent to view ads. Voat deserves the revenue.

TheVillain61 ago

Congratulations voat on becoming the latest US acquisition,

Dexter111 ago

PLEASE DON'T MOVE TO SAN FRANCISCO!

LizardBreathe ago

Prices and taxes are crazy there. Move to nowhere US for cheap everything.

SufferingAndSandwich ago

Given your talks about free speech being your primary goal: Reddit shut down a bunch of subreddits, a breach in the principle. I've heard about subverses being shut down here too, does that have something to do with previous liabilities? And will it be a recurring problem of the future?

HomerSimpson ago

The subs that have been shut down here are because of legal issues. /v/jailbait /v/truejailbait /v/thefappening. It is not really the same thing as what reddit did.

SufferingAndSandwich ago

Regarding "freedom of speech" being the concern, what legal issues were there? I do by no means support celebrity photo hacks being made public (as happened in /v/thefappening), and they are absolutely available everywhere on the net. But it's an issue where you start to wonder where freedom of speech becomes hampered by "legal issues".

HomerSimpson ago

I am not a lawyer or any kind of legal adviser so I can't really answer that.

ShipJumper ago

This will actually be a very important point and something they need to consider before selling stock to Voaters...

That being said, I'm in for Voat stock.

chakan2 ago

Sigh...well...live it up...we've got about 2 years until this place sells out too.

tylahedras ago

Congratulations on the land speed record for selling out. I've never seen it done so fast before. Did you even give it a second thought? Disgusting.

Liger_Zero ago

While I don't deny that things like this can happen, can we really take the word of this moderator as absolute truth? There doesn't appear to be any supporting outside sources or anything. Maybe its just me. I tend to be very skeptic of things I read on the internet.

mukt ago

Claim vs proof.

Broc_Lia ago

I'm deeply grateful for all the work you've put in, but I think you should reconsider being based in the US. Whatever freedoms the US constitution might guarantee, the actual freedom a US datacenter enjoys is less than stellar.

Have you decided what you're going to do when you receive your first secret court order to cooperate with the NSA?

QuestionEverything ago

Anonymity + ability to post = freedom of speech. Also, wheres the guarantees from voat? Charter please?

EllenPopoZao ago

you will rue the day you didn't make ellen popozao ceo!!!!!

bigfondue ago

Considering that Iceland was the home of the original Silk Road, and cooperated secretly with the US for the investigation, I don't think that its the haven you think it is. Also porn is illegal there. http://icelandreview.com/news/2015/08/02/iceland-porn-ban-outdated

mukt ago

150 year old law that outlaws making & distributing porn there, but not viewing it.
Also, erotica seems entirely legal, judging from the article you linked.

tylahedras ago

USA huh?

Congratulations, I guess I need to find another website.

DrWoW ago

Did you guys look into hosting in Iceland? They are pretty free speech oriented when it comes to the web.

0x5 ago

This is awesome! Thanks for all the work you've done to keep this community going even in the face of adversity.

FireFlyCGI ago

@Atko I'm glad you guys got off the ground, carry on being awesome!

bigfondue ago

A VPN site trying to sell you services isn't the best thing to cite IMO.

ideasware ago

I actually thought you meant voat.inc at first... My mistake. :-)

gerbil_in_my_pooper ago

Congratulations! You guys work so hard to keep this wonderful site running. When I have the money I will absolutely donate what I can to you!

BillCo ago

The ramparts are down! To the wall fellow voaters. Defend us against the trolls.

Browngaijin ago

Congratulations!

ceelu ago

Late to the party, but congratulations!

Opieswife ago

Thank you and congratulations.

Anchy ago

Oh look, a familiar face :p

Erm i mean nickname (i am gonna walk myself out)

Actually, i do like that grampa Anchy thing (input Jim's gif reference here) :P

master_voater ago

Off topico but who down dooted this post?

Hey_Sunshine ago

People who aren't happy with them registering Voat Inc. in the U.S.

Guide ago

WELL DONE @ATKO

I AM YOUR BIGGEST FAN

LETS MAKE LOVE.

AdlfJmal ago

Yes. Now please occupy all my free time.

123_456 ago

Congratulations, Atty!

Sento_Fernner ago

Glad to be a help.

Sento_Fernner ago

Well, if it's any consolation, I don't have you tagged as a douchecannoe. So yeah, you can go back to being the history guy.

Sento_Fernner ago

You know, I see you around, but I'll remember you with a slight confusion now.

darwin_prime ago

Why the U.S.? Switzerland seemed like a great option in the beginning, but when it comes to freedom of speech, the main idea behind Voat, U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we've researched. The First Amendment is very clear about this:

@Atko, so is Voat.inc still going to abide by the earlier statement that anything can be posted which isn't illegal in Switzerland? Are the servers in fact going to remain in Switzerland?

For everyone else, I have an uneasy feeling in my gut about this to be completely honest. We'll have to wait and see what develops from here. Thoughts?

Derbl ago

They decided to create their own secret laws and courts for that - they us the first amendment (and the rest of the bill of rights) to mop up diarhea.

Sento_Fernner ago

What.... what am I even looking at right now?

Derbl ago

Say hello to the NSA and FISA court for me!

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Voat has been in the NSA's reach for months already.

k_digi ago

Yeah but now we can help fund the NSA through revenue they gain from taxes by strong arming voat into 'submission' !

  • : D

Derbl ago

I know - they have their finger on the prostate of the entire internet...

puppypaws98 ago

Congratulations! Start selling that "copyrighted" stuffed Voat Goat asap. And stickers and mugs, and phone covers etc.....

null_error ago

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!

neptronix ago

Awesome, bros. I support you all the way. By the way, it is time to take the alpha tag off your logo. This site is far from being an alpha version. It indicates that you are not serious about this project to the casual viewer who is not aware of the back story.

OpusMioda ago

Good show, but obviously you're not from the USA. Freedom is no longer free.

tehyosh ago

Stable income that can both support the infrastructure and their life styles?

1542663? ago

Hopefully Voat will continue to be the beacon of free speech after going corporate.

coldfusion167 ago

Woohoo! Sounds good to me! Congrats on leveling up to a real company.

Rea11yN0tMe ago

Free speech has been mentioned a few times in this thread, but the 'safe harbor' provision of the DMCA is equally important and has received no attention so far. It shields the providers (Atko and PuttItOut) from being sued out of existence in civil court for a comment somebody made on Voat.

Without these protections the risk of potential copyright liability would prevent many online intermediaries from providing services such as hosting and transmitting user-generated content. Thus the safe harbors, while imperfect, have been essential to the growth of the Internet as an engine for innovation and free expression.
https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca

While other jurisdictions have now enacted similar exemptions, I believe that US law still offers the best protection for online service providers and so is another thing that tips the balance in favour of going US.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

CloudFlare

I'm so mad how people still think that Voat has sovereignty over its platform.

SocialistJW ago

I think it's funny.

weabot ago

I don't agree the decision of moving to the US but as long as Voat and its aim stay the way it is, you have my supoprt.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Probably fibbing.

They don't care about data interception when it become the norm on Voat a few months ago.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

The site's traffic has been in the US' hands for awhile now.

Why is this the last straw?

HoneyNutStallmans ago

It's been died for a month or two already.

MensAgitatMolem ago

Silicon Valley is dieing Atko, you might want to think about other places like Seattle WA, Portland OR, Austin TX.

DeckardCain ago

Congratulations on this big step! Hope to walk along this journey with you

WeiDeli14 ago

EDIT: in light of the new knowledge that has come out where first Atko says "Voat is now Voat, Inc." Two days ago is is back to being nothing but a hobby. Just as I warned him in my private message he is not ready to be responsible for the legal liabilities that hosting a site full of bigots and pedophiles entails. Watch Voat crash and burn.

WarNeverChanges ago

I'm proud to be a part of this.

PsychoDesign ago

Are we still in alpha stage?

P.S : congrats on corporation

WolfPackNigga ago

That's a nice beard, my nigga

SurvivorType ago

Brilliant! You guys rock.

ketsuban ago

The servers are still in Switzerland. Being registered as a corporation in the US is something completely different.

JoelTheSuperior ago

Yup though it seems odd to me that they wouldn't want to be registered in the same place they're keeping their servers in.

That said I've known of people registering companies in the US regardless of where their servers or operations are based just to keep taxes etc down.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

The servers are still in Switzerland

Wrong.

Mongolera ago

And even if they were, doesn't the patriot act allow us officials to ask for all information of an USA based company, even if it is stores outside of the US? As a European, I am really not happy with the way the US is operating when privacy is concerned and would have been happier if Voat would stay away from the US. Maybe this is just fed by principles and hunches, but for me the US is at the same level of shadiness and world power megalomania as China.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

And even if they were, doesn't the patriot act allow us officials to ask for all information of an USA based company, even if it is stores outside of the US?

It's not really a Patriot Act thing; nevertheless, they actually do request information.

Typically that kind of data extraction conflicts with local laws but the United States never lets local laws get in the way.

ketsuban ago

I just noticed that. My bad.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

I'll throw up a post soon dispelling all these myths.

There's so much misinformation going around...

xiggly ago

Congratulations, so nice to see this grow.

obi-1 ago

So now the NSA can read everything I post?

Oh who I'm I kidding they did before anyways.

Hai NSA bois!

HomerSimpson ago

The DDoS ended awhile ago. They just kept the protection on in case another one hit.

WarpSt0rm ago

Congratulations! Long Live Voat Inc!

treborsel ago

Thanks @Atko and @Puttitout I hope everything works out for and Voat, inc. LONG LIVE the GOAT

KL1 ago

a corporation registered in the U.S.

The Voat dream is over.
Today is such a sad sad day.

Hey_Sunshine ago

You think that the NSA can't already get into any system they want?

Caboose_Calloway ago

Remember when you and I used to rack our brains to make Voat a more sustainable place? All in vain.

I'm trying to learn programming and if I ever get to that level I'll build a decentralized community from the start. Meanwhile I'll try my luck with Hubski.

Hey_Sunshine ago

I too am trying to teach myself how to code, could we like form a study group?

Genghis_Khan ago

I'm a little late to the party but I want to congratulate you anyway. Forward progress, it's the only way.

Malek ago

Good deal. Hopefully you guys got a good Attorney to help you out.

tentonaraft ago

I salute you, @Atko and @PuttItOut. Reddit better watch out.

Atherz097 ago

We are like tiny cockroaches compared to Reddit. I doubt they have much to fear.

ulrikkold ago

Congratulations on your new company. I hope it helps you bring your project forward. Best of luck!

JuliusSeizure ago

Fuck yeah.

Maskedsaturn ago

Dammit, Julius!

JuliusSeizure ago

What up NFL bro!

readingremus ago

Congratulations!!!!

I'll help out in anyway I can.

dontdoxxmebro ago

Yes! Rock on corporate brothers. Corporations have free speech, best to do that!!!!

Malevolence ago

Well, Idunno bout what other people think, but you two are some very handsome gents! And that 'stache, tho. Love it!

Malevolence ago

I feel so freakin' privileged. And that's not even a little sarcastic! I'm excited to be a part of Voat and chiming in my own little .02 on occasion. You guys rock and I'm happy for you. :)

MC_Yggdrazil ago

Now please don't go the way of Reddit.

richard_m_lurkmoar ago

registered in the US?

well, it was fun while it lasted, I suppose

Charlemagne_III ago

So interesting how Reddit alienating people (lul) resulted in a corporation being founded.

SybilVimes ago

@Atko - I can't get over what you accomplished with your "student project" and I look forward to ways to help provide support. Great job!!

TheBuddha ago

LOL Even though they were scrubs I shall now think of you as that guy who also showed a gif of his prison daddy. I can't help it. Once my brain locks on to such things those thoughts will always pop back up.

Leering ago

This is amazing new, congratulations!

dancemonkey ago

You could argue against being a gazillion lbs as a "natural biological development" though. Munching your way through 5000+ calories a day isn't exactly "natural". Being short, tall, disabled, ginger, black, white, shades in between, gay, straight, young, old... those are all things you can't change, but one can say no to super size sodas!

Anchy ago

What a time to be alive ;)

Lml8908 ago

Congrats!

spookybm ago

So does that mean you guys have put up an IPO, I might have some funds ready to invest.

CB750F ago

Good luck guys!

Freshdough ago

Congratulations on your incorporation! Looking forward to much success in the future. Keep up the good work guys.

Citizen ago

I am not a lawyer, this is just what I would do in your situation.

I strongly recommend filling out this form: http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/

It's a one time fee of $105, and it (mostly) absolves you of liability for your user's actions. The law itself can be read here.

(c) Information Residing on Systems or Networks At Direction of Users.—

(1) In general.— A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, if the service provider—

(A)

(i) does not have actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing;

(ii) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent; or

(iii) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;

(B) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity; and

(C) upon notification of claimed infringement as described in paragraph (3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.

(2) Designated agent.— The limitations on liability established in this subsection apply to a service provider only if the service provider has designated an agent to receive notifications of claimed infringement described in paragraph (3), by making available through its service, including on its website in a location accessible to the public, and by providing to the Copyright Office, substantially the following information:

(A) the name, address, phone number, and electronic mail address of the agent.

(B) other contact information which the Register of Copyrights may deem appropriate.

The Register of Copyrights shall maintain a current directory of agents available to the public for inspection, including through the Internet, and may require payment of a fee by service providers to cover the costs of maintaining the directory.

This (and CP) are pretty much all you need to be aware of in terms of policing content. Also, you should restrict those under 13 from making accounts, so COPA doesn't apply to you.

I'm sure you will be contacting a real lawyer at some point, but this should cover the majority of your liability.

RaxSnax ago

How would that work though? Almost all attempts to gate user age on the Internet, as far as I've seen, is permeable.

Krutonium ago

Any attempt at all is all you need.

Are you 13 years of age or older? [ X ]

Hey_Sunshine ago

You sure you're not a lawyer? I'd totally believe you were...

Citizen ago

I filed one of these, which is why I know about it.

It's illegal for a non-lawyer to give legal advice, which is why everyone has to put that stupid disclaimer. Also, if a lawyer gives you legal advice, that could open them up to malpractice liability, so they have their own version, "I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer."

TheyKeepOnRising ago

You should be a lawyer

puppy528 ago

Oh.... beards. NOT what I thought he wanted to trade with you.

rexgao ago

congrats~ 恭喜 ：）

voatforgoat ago

Really great to see such a great site and such an awesome community becoming a real 'something' (in the official and legal sense). Congrats guys!

lbruiser ago

Personally I would disable ublock origins on voat

HomerSimpson ago

Notify me when you are done. Would like to read that.

schwanstucker ago

Better than Iceland?? Just curious. I'm setting up a website that in some corners of the world could be deemed very controversial (christian, religious), and want protection, not only for me, but for the people who log on. So it's a serious question. Thanks!

Vvswiftvv17 ago

U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched.

''Murica!

http://gifsec.com/funny/america-usa-us-murica-gif/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=reddit&utm_source=news

Taka ago

America is a VERY bad place to host your website. I suspect Voat will be taken down in a matter of weeks.

darwin_prime ago

No it won't, there is too much potential for investment.

HomerSimpson ago

Why...

Nadrik ago

Calls Silicon Valley uber-left wing...suggests Austin

lolwut? 6 in one, half dozen in the other.

hexydes ago

Uh yeah, Austin might not be conservative Texas... but nor is it anywhere near San Francisco. It's actually not a bad option for a tech company (at least your close to SXSW).

MichaelTen ago

Please evolve Voat.co into a benefit corporation (B-Corp). This corporate structure exists in some states. It blends for profit and not for profit intentions.

FishWithAMustache ago

Congrats Atko and PuttItOut! Thanks so much, we all love what you're doing!

tcp ago

Just wow. The US has never had to revise the constitution because it has never really been forced to follow it. It's a good ideal (or just propaganda), but look at recent history (and contrary laws) to see why every clause of the First Amendment (and the rest of the Bill of Rights) has been countermanded. You have jumped from the frying fan into the fire. Whatever the real reason for the move, I hope it was worth it.

basotl ago

Says:

The US has never had to revise the constitution

Then cites the first change to the US Constitution:

see why every clause of the First Amendment

Your other points stand but I just wanted to point out that the US Constitution has been amended/changed 27 times.

tcp ago

Revising isn't exactly the same as amending. Most of the amendments add things without revisiting the language nor making clarifications about the previous ones nor much of the original document. Thomas Jefferson supported rewriting the constitution every 20 or so years. Also, if you haven't seen the erosion and flagrant disregard of the constitution, you aren't paying attention. The fact that many people can refer to the constitution as outdated only gives more of an excuse for lawmakers, judges, and politicians to ignore their responsibility to uphold the constitution.

HomerSimpson ago

The US has never had to revise the constitution because it has never really been forced to follow it.

[citation needed]

but look at recent history (and contrary laws) to see why every clause of the First Amendment (and the rest of the Bill of Rights) has been countermanded.

Again [citation needed]

tcp ago

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=first+amendment+patriot+act&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C22&as_vis=1

Once again, look at recent history. This is too broad an issue to list every example. I can find you the most egregious breaches if you tell me what specifically you are interested in. It also depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go. Here's one to get you started: http://www.networkworld.com/article/2224842/microsoft-subnet/you-might-be-a-terrorist-if---you-complain-about-your-tap-water.html

HomerSimpson ago

First link. Pretty sure the patriot act would be attacking more on the fourth amendment than the first.

Second link while I agree is retarded does not apply to this situation. The argument is whether or not them being in the US will fuck them as a site is it not?

tcp ago

The Patriot Act and similar laws that followed it (especially ones that tried to control the internet) were a green light for not just habeus corpus but the entire bills of rights to be suspended. "Terrorism" was now the catch-all reason to invade the privacy of ordinary citizens or do much worse to them. Even visiting Voat instead of a more docile site like Facebook might be enough to get you flagged by the government (Source). Voat is certainly subject to astroturfing because various entities including the government don't like the the variety of topics being discussed. Even the most popular subjects are subversive from their view.

Voat does not use hard-to-crack encryption, but it might be considered a proponent of it, so maybe, one day it will receive a NSL like Lavabit. That is, if they add any technology that prevents the government from simply hacking in without anyone knowing. You might just think that PayPal freezes people's account because they are shady assholes, but it not a stretch to see how they are acting as a tool of government by closing off access to "legitimate" banking for "illegitimate" sites like Voat. One day, it may be enough to shut down a site like Voat for the simple fact that it relies on cryptocurrency. Atko is trying to legitimize his company and receive funding, but, in the process, he will develop tendencies for compliance that go beyond banning questionable subverses. Kim Dotcom was branded a criminal because he not only let his users do whatever they wanted but supposedly encouraged users to upload illegal content because it got the most hits. Of course, when he got raided it was extralegal but that is just a detail when you have the power to destroy sites that you don't want to exist. It only exists in its current form because it has been infiltrated by the NZ government, it uses weak encryption, and it has ways to actively police illegal content.

So what does Voat have to fear? Plenty (if they don't plan on caving / compliance), but my initial statement was that were was no reason to believe that free speech is protected in the US, at least, not the free speech that matters. It makes you question Atko's thought process. Does he have the courage to actually make this site different from reddit? It will take some serious balls considering you can see what happens to renegades if you look at the story of internet activist Aaron Swartz. He was a prodigy, literally rewrote reddit, and was an equal shareholder / co-founder, but he was treated as a pariah by his so-called partners at reddit. He was crucified for pulling a mini-Snowden and releasing some harmless academic articles, which he believed should be free knowledge.

I could go on, but I am still making sense of what Atko said. So far, I have trouble accepting that free speech laws were the actual reason for incorporating. Also, I am not sure how Atko can still conscientiously be asking for donations when he has already stated that this will not be a donation-driven site but a privately funded venture.

HomerSimpson ago

. You might just think that PayPal freezes people's account because they are shady assholes, but it not a stretch to see how they are acting as a tool of government by closing off access to "legitimate" banking for "illegitimate" sites like Voat.

That is getting to tin foil hat territory.

encouraged users to upload illegal content because it got the most hits.

Well considering he is encouraging people to upload illegal content why shouldn't he be branded as a criminal ? Also Atko hasn't been doing that however it is still early on so things obviously can change.

. Of course, when he got raided it was extralegal but that is just a detail when you have the power to destroy sites that you don't want to exist.

If I remember correctly please correct me if I am wrong but he was held responsible from the laws of the country he was in. No the US's laws.

So far, I have trouble accepting that free speech laws were the actual reason for incorporating

He could easily just be confused considering he isn't from or been to the United States.

Also, I am not sure how Atko can still conscientiously be asking for donations when he has already stated that this will not be a donation-driven site but a privately funded venture.

I want a source on that one.

Off topic but on Aaron Swartz. Did he sell his stocks before his death? And if not were they given to his family instead?

tcp ago

Well, I am not trying to prove that PayPal is conspiring with the government, but it is a shady company, and you have to wonder why. If big businesses had to use their service (which they have the advantage of not needing), they would never put up with the stuff Paypal pulls. Paypal screws the little guy. It wants to prevent the possibility of class action law suits. It had no reason to freeze the funds of Voat or many of the other users it's screwed over. Paypal is not a service provider so much as it is the top cartel of online trade.

If you look at the Kim Dotcom case, it's just a clusterfuck. The FBI improperly raided his NZ home, took equipment back to the US with them, and they follow jurisdictional rules and let NZ authorities (their puppets) handle the investigation. Yet, other file sharing and streaming services have carried on as usual even though everyone knows most of the content are illegal music, TV shows, and movies. Also, it was US copyright law and alleged money laundering that they wanted to extradite him to the US for, but if you notice he hasn't gone anywhere in the 3 years since the raid.

This was posted on the maintenance page of Voat a while back:

Latest Update: Voat will be intermittent at best over the next few days. The traffic we are experiencing is unrelenting and we still have many things yet to do.

We have begun discussions with more than one venture capitalist firm who have expressed their support for Voat and the community.

These investors share and support the principles in which we hold, that a free community is neccessary. They support us and our mission.

To everyone who donated so far: thank you for your support. Your donations mean a lot and we will never forget the people who supported us when we needed it the most.

When you are no longer a community site, you should stop taking donations. They want to be a business, so they should sell services, merchandise, or whatever else they need to survive as a business. It doesn't make sense to donate to a business even if it is struggling. It would be a different story if they didn't go that route.

HomerSimpson ago

If you look at the Kim Dotcom case, it's just a clusterfuck. The FBI improperly raided his NZ home, took equipment back to the US with them, and they follow jurisdictional rules and let NZ authorities (their puppets) handle the investigation. Yet, other file sharing and streaming services have carried on as usual even though everyone knows most of the content are illegal music, TV shows, and movies. Also, it was US copyright law and alleged money laundering that they wanted to extradite him to the US for, but if you notice he hasn't gone anywhere in the 3 years since the raid.

I remember reading more than that. But I don't have the time to go dig it up so I will take your word for it.

When you are no longer a community site, you should stop taking donations. They want to be a business, so they should tell services, merchandises, or whatever else they need to survive as a business. It doesn't make sense to donate to a business even if it is struggling. It would be a different story if they didn't go that route.

Yep I don't disagree. I think they either need to stop accepting(or move away from) and go onto merchandise. They mention it in the OP about selling shit but they in no way mention about moving away from donations.

glugglug ago

I think you are confused. The 1st amendment has been null and void for the past 15 years.

Sento_Fernner ago

Same scrubs as in most jails (in the USA), strangely enough.

voat-simulator ago

Who would have thought that simultaneous reforms of our prison and healthcare systems would be so synergistic!

TheBuddha ago

I shall forever think of you as the guy who shared his newspaper court photograph with us. If I had a picture of me in court, I would share it too.

NotALawyer ago

I think this will come back and bite you in the ass in less than a year.

Good luck, I wish you all the success in the world.

Rea11yN0tMe ago

Late to the party, but also all the best from me! I'm looking forward to contribute (in a small way) to a growing free speech platform.

TahTahBur ago

the penis or the badge? @lockeproposai

konem ago

Veni, vidi, voti.

Dantethebald ago

Incorporating in the U.S. brings us closer to cheaper infrastructure (Silicon Valley anyone?)

You might be interested in looking into the Dallas/Fort Worth area!

TheBuddha ago

Wait, what? You read the ToS? Hmm... I do not think I have ever done that except for hosting companies or in performance of work duties. I have written some, with the aid of legal council, but not even I would read my own ToS. I almost want to check and see if you are correct but that kind of sort of goes against my nature. Fortunately, I am an ass but not enough to be kicked out of any community so far.

BustyChicksFTW ago

I'll buy a Voat Goat plushie. I'll also buy Voat's alternative to Reddit gold coins. (Totally serious about the plushie)

Big_Willy_Wallace ago

So...Instead of fighting the attacks, you decided to incorporate within the country ordering the attacks...........RIP Voat.

anonagent ago

False equilivence.

mukt ago

How?

SocialistJW ago

Did you honestly ever think this was going to go any other way?

Big_Willy_Wallace ago

I feel so stupid for ever having hope in the first place. It has been pretty clear that Atko and Puttitout are a couple of asshats. They did this for themselves, not for Voat, and failed to think through the possible repercussions. I also suppose that since they don't live in the US, they don't understand how our Constitution is used for toilet paper in Washington, and that free speech is anything but protected here. Akko and Puttitout are guilty of two things: thinking selfishly of their own desires to run a website out of Silicon Valley, and more importantly, stupidity and ignorance of how tenaciously the American political cults can enforce their ideals without changing the Constitution.

SocialistJW ago

It's okay, man. You're young. You can still have dreams. You still have many mistakes left to make. Someday you'll look back at all this and laugh and laugh and

AreWeHuman ago

All doors are now open for this to become the next reddit. Corporations will be flocking towards this site paying for shills and ads. Might as well be going back to reddit...

SocialistJW ago

Might as well be going back to reddit...

You can quit Voat without going back to reddit. There is life beyond internet boards.

mukt ago

Voat unlikely to rise enough to become a reddit, given what just happened.

TheBuddha ago

Why are you in a jail uniform??? How did you get internet access?

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Why are you in a jail uniform???

He's browsing Reddit.

Guerilla ago

He escaped.

frankenmine ago

Please provide licensefully officiated merchandise goods of Voat as soon as ASAP.

AmaIek2000 ago

" Why the U.S.? Switzerland seemed like a great option in the beginning, but when it comes to freedom of speech, the main idea behind Voat, U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched. The First Amendment is very clear about this."

So clearly I was right the whole fucking time lol.

Did you guys see all the scrutiny I was put through? And called a liar and a troll.

So ultimately, it looks as if I was right.

I was even asked by a Swiss user " what country would be a better host for Voat?"

To which I clearly replied " The USA, because we have true freedom o speech, not some Swiss watered down version of it".

So looks like I wasn't lying. Switzerland " anti-racism" laws were infringing upon free speech...and you all fucking attacked me and said I was an idiot for claiming this.

Looks like I was just educated on Swiss law... Wonder what else I'm right about?

@atko smart move man, you did the right move. Thanks.

HomerSimpson ago

I mean just because you were right didn't mean you had to spam everything. And people who live in the US should know it would be than other countries. Like shit we allow all hate speech.

BloodPool ago

Thank you both for all of the hard work you guys are doing and have done. Seriously.

Atherz097 ago

I don't know why, but this post has me smiling now. Good job for Voat!

Now it's time to see if this business lasts after the closing of doors for weeks and its larger competition still on the loose.

TheBuddha ago

Tomorrow's sticky will be, "Penis sucking badge now available."

WolfPackNigga ago

lmfao, exactly what I'm thinking, these guys are idolising him so much it's fucking ridiculous. They would suck his cock if he would give it to them..

psy-q ago

You should have registered as a non-profit or a foundation, that's the only way to incorporate a credible community (look at the Apache Foundation, Software in the Public Interest, Mozilla Foundation...) That would have set Voat apart from just any corporate-controlled "community" like e.g. Twitter.

gatordontplaythatsht ago

@atko Thank you for protecting our rights and making voat possible.

HomerSimpson ago

Which means they also won't get hit by bullshit laws from other stupid countries(hate speech for examples.)

What laws in the US are you worried about fucking Voat up...

HomerSimpson ago

Well glad to hear it @Atko thanks for doing what you do. Sorry for the trouble my group has caused you guys already and hope we all can have a wonderful friendship together for a long long time.

Now sorry to be a pest but is there any news about better mod tools/permissions for communities? For large subverses it is really a pain to moderate.

AreWeHuman ago

US company, eh? Well, hello NSA.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Voat has been tunneling its traffic through the USA unencrypted already for months.

dchem ago

Ballsy. We're behind you on this. Keep doing a great job and we'll keep supporting you!

Arkhound ago

And not every company here in the bay is an SJW nutjob. You're overgeneralizing.

ginx2666 ago

Of course not all companies there are SJW nutjobs.

Just the most important ones.

YayForBacon ago

Congrats guys!

sakuramboo ago

Nice subverse. I guess you have a huge hate on for Valve.

BRITTEACH ago

Welcome to the U.S. I assume your registered your company in the state of Delaware since its laws have have traditionally favored businesses.

I haven't been a member for very long but I do visit the site at least once a day, sometimes more. It's a great community with alot of bright people. I hope it stays that way.

Wishing you every success.

monkeytoe101 ago

I worry about Voat being incorporated in US. I hope it works out for the best though.

Skeletor ago

Voat Inc. in the states? Oh sweet baby Yisssss

Welcome.

Kelpi ago

Congratulations on this big step.

rpachigo ago

Good luck

Antropomorphic ago

Well let's be taught something with this. US law is real or not? (I hope it is)

WAVAW ago

Congrats!

Numzane ago

Well done guys!

asmodea ago

Does that mean you're moving to the US?

umpaloompa ago

Congrats on your incorporation!

If you're planning in the near future to hire employees please make sure they are at least accustomed to how Voat works and how the community is like. Heck, if you want you can hire directly from here.

Good luck and keep the boat floating. :)

Lurch ago

Congrats, and thank you for all the hard work you've put in to Voat. Years from now, when we look back at this period of surveillance and censorship, Voat will be counted as being on the right side of history.

sastromo ago

congrats!!

RR5td5 ago

So that's the way the cookie crumbles (:

MyNameIsBlap ago

Thank you. I'm proud of you.

Tsugumori ago

Money.

donotreply ago

Congrats... and I hope your studies and doing well. Must be hard to be in school and have this as a "side project"!

goatboy ago

You should make a voat constitution that users could vote to approve.

RielDtok_ ago

Thank you for all you've done. I'm worried about incorporating in the US because of the secret court orders and impending death of net neutrality, but I understand that it isn't so easy to set up in Panama, Singapore, etc.

rosary505 ago

Voat goat plushies when?

Forinauta ago

Voat Inc.

Congratulations, lets get this thing going!

Kamandi ago

Congrats to Voat, Inc! Keep doing what you're doing and don't do what the "other guys" are doing. I wish you success!

sgtkeel ago

This will be a part of history. Internet, freedom of speech, censorship - Voat has been a part of it these last few weeks. Congrats on becoming incorporated!

Sylos ago

Congratulations. I've been more active here on your site than any other forum I've been on. Thanks for the neat site.

patman21 ago

This registration thing is going to be interesting. Glad I got in before the mess!

Best of luck on the future of this company. I look forward to visiting it more often.

SterlingItachiArcher ago

Our time on Voat has come to an early end it seems.

Know of any alternatives? Diaspora?

sweetholymosiah ago

Free speech is still a thing in the states. Maybe not privacy, but this is a public board!

VoatEdo ago

Nice. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Arkhound ago

And the ideologues running this one are their own, so it doesn't really matter. Don't get snooty because you don't like an area, at that point you're just as bad as the people you despise.

Broc_Lia ago

We've already seen multiple companies torpedo clients they didn't like for not being left wing/PC enough. What makes you think voat is immune?

Arkhound ago

You mean that one guy from Github? Or a few website hosters? There are always more.

Broc_Lia ago

Github, Paypal, Paytreon, Voat's old hosting company. Granted that last one was in Germany, but that culture is only going to get worse on the west coast.

Arkhound ago

Yeah, it only seems that way because like 90% of companies are on the U.S. West Coast.

SpacemanMitch ago

Another great leap forward for Voat! sniff They grow up so fast...

tdee3000 ago

When you make your first $ Billion, don't forget about us, the little folk. Good Luck !!!

SterlingItachiArcher ago

The old adage rings true once again,

The pursuit of money trumps all.

PuttItOut ago

Yours is better than mine. Let's trade.

AlphaTaco ago

/v/hotwife

Sento_Fernner ago

But that mustache though. That is a beautiful specimen right there.

BloodPool ago

Can I join the beard club too, @puttitout? http://i.imgur.com/HyfSYKK.jpg

PuttItOut ago

You can be the President with that thing!

BloodPool ago

Such a great club already!

Arkhound ago

Expensive to live, not have storage. Left/Right wingedness has no effect on something like this. SJW advocacy is moot (hue). SF bay area is really the best place to host for pricing/reliability in the U.S.

glugglug ago

No. Even Silicon Valley based companies do not have data centers there, as it would be too expensive.

Best pricing is in the middle of nowhere, in areas with hydroelectric power, like Colorado.

vomitus_maximus ago

Congratulations!

Astromachine ago

Congrats guys!

Arkhound ago

All hail the goat!

Cynabuns ago

Thank you and congratulations!

Exuberant_Murica ago

My niggas!

FPHrefugee ago

YAY!!! I think that this is awesome. Also I bet you never expected this to blow up the way it did huh? A small thing now this huge thing. You've given hope and freedom to a lot of people. I'm really happy for you and for us. Atko , you rock

Atko ago

Here we are: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/247139. Not kidding :)

SillyDillySaurus ago

Do you have any Irish relatives @Atko? Because you like you could be Irish.

escape ago

I think you guys are handsome.

polkadotgirl ago

Atko is cute.

m4tthew ago

Finally. Admins who can take a joke. You have passed the test. We like you now.

phatbrasil ago

I mean, we liked them before but now we like them more!

Rigel ago

I don't get this. You guys aren't fat.

g-j-a ago

What a pair of distinguished looking fellows.

Vvswiftvv17 ago

The hipster is strong with the one on the right.

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/Hipster-Barista

You guys rock though.

YikYak ago

Day in and day out you demonstrate to me why voat is going to work.

Real class acts, both of you. ( not sarcasm)

Exuberant_Murica ago

LOL!! Classic! Good move Atko! GREAT MOVE!

fuckredditcensorship ago

You guys' laugh-with-them attitude in that thread made me happy.

honorkell ago

"Disarming charm." Not a bad trait to master.

l-emmerdeur ago

MERCUH!

OmenemO ago

Nice job. Keep up the great work. Would be nice if you opened up a certain amount of invites to current members to handout coughsellcough as they see fit.

Firinmahlazer ago

Congratulations! Can't wait to see where this all goes!

selpai ago

Ummm... Is this a joke?

bigfondue ago

Why? Did you think that two guys are going to sacrifice all their money and free time to run a website for you? This also makes them personally not liable for lawsuits if one should occur.

selpai ago

Right, but why are they now based in the US? They quote this vague notion of the 1st amendment, like it ensures privacy or means a damn thing in this day and age. This is classic bait and switch. They're based in the US now, but they'll remain ethical and protect your privacy and right to uninhibited discourse. They promise.

Reddit started out with good intentions too, and look what happened to it.

goronmon ago

Is there one clear 'best' place to host sites like Voat? I've always seen it as picking the least bad of a bunch of bad options. Most countries actually don't have the same free speech protections as the US, so you are already starting off from a short list. Include things like cost and other legal issues (privacy, illegal content laws) and the list gets even shorter.

lovesyouandhugsyou ago

The 1st amendment protection that exists in the US is much better than elsewhere. Europe is a quagmire of legislation against things like hate speech, holocaust denial, blasphemy etc., and the Human Rights Court supports this kind of prior restraint unlike the US Supreme Court.

As for privacy, which is really unrelated, it's a public discussion board with no expectation of secrecy. And your username has a high probability of being discoverable by the NSAs/GCHQs of the world no matter where the server resides or the company is incorporated, especially when it's tunnelling traffic through Cloudflare.

bigcakes ago

Congratulations, excited for some Voat merchandise!

ChillyHellion ago

Sounds like a good decision in the long run, and probably takes a lot of uncertainty out of the equation. Thank you for all of your work @Atko and @PuttitOut. I'm glad you're at the helm.

BigBlue725 ago

I want you guys to hire me. I have some solid ideas.. I am a 28 year old butcher for A&P. I have a college degree. Being in this dying trade pays 70k/yr. Using my degree starts at 35k. I have a newborn son and fiance. I am worried sick every day about my job and furthermore the well being of my young family. I owe 73k to Sallie Mae for going to college, my biggest regret. I not only sympathize but can represent the worries and concerns of a very critical generation in our nation. For years, I have been trying very hard to start working for a workers union, as I feel the rise of strong unions could solve many of our country's problems with corporate and political corruption.

One of my ideas is that you guys need to cater more to the laziness of the average person. Upvoting and adding comments on a mobile device is a 3 step process. We need to get that down to one.

We could also use a tab that states the mission of the site for all visitors to see. A promise to the users that we only require enough money to let the site runners and moderators live comfortably and keep the servers healthy. No selling out, as little ads as possible; freedom of speech is the absolute top priority. Any greedy play on content should and will be exposed and eliminated.

Hey_Sunshine ago

as a person want to keep college debit to a bare minimum, which classes do you feel were most important to your understanding of computer programming?

RedditDead2005-2015 ago

We didn't hear from you in awhile. I just figured you got a heart attack after seeing your July hosting bill. ;) So, U.S. laws allow Voaters more freedom to express themselves than any other country including Swiss laws. Please say that again for Voaters outside of the U.S. ;)

PM_ME_YOUR_ELBOW ago

Sweet

1536249? ago

Avoid all US and UK based services

Yeah, for storing secret information. For posting public posts that will be public anyway, for whatever "privacy" means in the context of Voat, it could incorporate in and operate from wherever.

Rea11yN0tMe ago

The US is one of the few countries without 'hate speech' laws. That and the "safe harbor" provision of the DMCA makes the US an eminently suitable location to host a public discussion forum.

Safe harbor: https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca

Hate speech: See my comment here

Also a reply to @macho @rodrigo7555 and @nonethewiser access to venture capital is of course also an important concern.

Edit: Added emphasis to 'public'.

Spip ago

For posting public posts that will be public anyway

They are not public, in the sense that my account doesn't link to my real identity.

ChillyHellion ago

That's a good point. If the NSA wants my post history, it's as easy as typing in a URL. The only thing private is my inbox, and that's a relatively small portion of Voat's infrastructure.

Tsugumori ago

The question is if they could use your IP to track it back to you.

ChillyHellion ago

That's a good point. I wonder if they would actually need access to Voat's data to attempt that.

Dargok ago

Well, since they are now a US based company, the government can force them to hand over any data they want. So whether or not they need access to any of Voat's data is moot as obtaining it is not an issue.

king_of_the_universe ago

They can also force them to not say anything about this, additionally to not even say that they can't say. (Claim based on a blog post recently linked on Voat, Inc. or reddit where the poster could eventually speak out.)

wmq ago

But they can regularly issue warrant canary - a document stating they were not subject to secret federal measures. If they were, they could just not update the document. Scroll to "What is a warrant canary?" here: https://www.privacytools.io

king_of_the_universe ago

That's ingenious, and so simple. Except it needs to be done all the time. But for a business/venture/organization, that's like flicking your pinkie.

And they can't do anything against that? I mean, it sounds like such a hole is easily pluggable: They just need to create some law saying that people can be forced to continue their warrant canaries for the sake of satisfying a secret subpoena.

ChillyHellion ago

If it's something they could do without the data, then having access to it would be redundant. I'm just trying to pin down how much being U.S. based matters to U.S. data collection.

Dargok ago

Fair enough. I'd just rather not make it even a tiny bit easier for them to have whatever they want.

ChillyHellion ago

Yeah, that's a good point. Being in the U.S. comes at a privacy cost. Hopefully the benefits to stability and economics outweigh the cost.

kjelle ago

We will build this community together and together we will remain strong, thanks to Atko!

Apocrathia ago

Hooray for open registrations again!

flat_hedgehog ago

I love you Atko! Congratulations!

Have you looked into how the website will be run financially? I'm realistic - there will need to be ads and I've whitelisted Voat already. Have you looked into targeted ads by subverse?

2314234234 ago

Could also be 100% donation based.

davesoon ago

Whoo! I can't wait for Voat to beat that other site soon!

SocialistJW ago

Lets hold our breath!

RedSocks157 ago

Congratulations! It's good that you've incorporated, it will prevent you from getting sued directly correct?

ZozV ago

This is good news! It will only get better from here.

countviolencia ago

Cool stuff. Wish you the best of luck. Really hoping that voat picks up in terms of users and content

CamillaBok ago

Great job and congrats! Today would be my "cake day" at the other place and instead I get a present here. It's awesome to know Voat will continue and grow :-)

Klaue ago

I think the only real way to make voat censorship resistant is by making a tor hidden service or even better a freesite out of it, but let's be honest, nobody would use it then, esp. because it would make it slow as fuck

2314234234 ago

There is no version of voat/reddit on tor?

Klaue ago

Not as a hidden service. At least not as far as I know

SenatorYeezus ago

Wonderful news, both the expansion and the account openings. The account bit is especially important to me because at least three strangers over the internet have told me that they would like to join Voat.

digitalentity1497 ago

I wish the very best for Voat. May this mark the beginning of smooth sailing.

Atko ago

Right now I and Puttitout own 100% of the company. We will be very transparent about any ownership changes and we'll do everything we can to keep complete control. We both like to write code and we'd love to quit our dayjobs and work full time on Voat. We'll see how this goes :)

jeffmcneill ago

Whatever marketing approach you take, keep it as simple and reversible as possible. The easiest would be advertising/no-ads membership approach with Google Adsense as the platform. Reddit Gold is also a nice community-related option. One thing for sure is that Reddit advertising is a disaster. The tools and approach are horrible, and take a lot of resources to create.

For those of us who would like to advertise on Voat, using Adsense (or Bing) would make it user-friendly for the small business, and of course you can block any ad or advertiser with that platform.

flyawayhigh ago

When you sell stock, you get a one-time infusion of cash -- then it's over -- except that you wind up with "fiduciary duties" to the "minority interest." Keep all of the stock and find a regular revenue stream. :)

hexydes ago

What? That's not true at all. You can have multiple funding rounds where you issue new shares made out of thin air. That's how a company like Uber can be valued at $100m, then $1b, then $10b, then $50b...

Perhaps you were thinking of an IPO? Even then, you can always buy back your stock and take the company private, though that's obviously not super common.

flyawayhigh ago

Here's how stocks work. There are three main categories

  1. Authorized

  2. Outstanding

  3. Treasury

A corporate charter creates a number of authorized stock shares.

The original owners take shares of stock to represent their ownership in the company.

If after the initial distribution is done, the company wants to raise cash, the company may decide to make an offering of authorized stock publicly or privately. Here, other people buy the stock, and more cash is raised. Once authorized stock is sold, it becomes issued and outstanding.

The freshly issued stock can no longer raise funds for the company. It's over.

Now, the stock is in this place called the secondary market which may trade the stock for gains or losses to its owners -- not to the company. This stock now counts as a percentage of ownership in the company, but no longer raises money for the company.

Here's where what you said comes in. The company can do it again. More authorized stock can be issued and sold, producing a one-time infusion of cash, and a dilution of ownership interests. This can be done until the company runs out of authorized stock. Then, if the board decides to raise even more money, more stock can be authorized under certain conditions. Then, it can be sold. (Here is a place where that fiduciary duty shows up.)

So now we have authorized stock and issued, outstanding stock. No more money to raise. By now, the company should be making money through operations. As we know with Reddit, this is easier said than done.

Since you mentioned it, a company can buy back its stock. When this is done, it costs the company money and becomes treasury stock.

Anyway, the point is stock sales aren't going to keep Voat going, whether they are done once or many times.

That's not true at all.

So, in fact, what I said was very true at all. All you did was break it up into smaller pieces. :)

Lusp ago

What is your dayjob?

BloodPool ago

@atko, I'm fairly certain Voat, Inc will do very well. You two are the bees knees.

BraneS2 ago

This happened faster than I would have expected. Great News.

SongAboutYourPost ago

I want to grow with the site. Thank you for making it a fixture instead of an event.

NickStricklin ago

Congrats Voat, Inc.!

radubtape ago

Let the (randomly-scheduled) flooding begins. Cheers to @Atko and the whole team.

xicorea ago

With all due respect and relief that Voat is more likely to continue, my gut feeling is that being registred in the US has more to do with cheaper infrasctructure and financial options than freedom of speech. But that's just my gut feeling.

PuttItOut ago

It's the other way around actually but as a package deal it still made the most sense.

Broc_Lia ago

While I'd tend to agree that the US constitution and culture are very pro freedom of speech, the legal reality for datacenters is the opposite. Have you and atko planned what you're going to do when you receive your first sealed order to cooperate with the NSA?

RaxSnax ago

Guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. While I certainly don't like the NSA and what they do, I feel like using the Internet and technology these days and assuming you'll find a place where at least one person won't be monitoring you is naive.

Broc_Lia ago

Your public activity will be monitored wherever you go, your private data won't be unless the server where it's stored is located in a five-eyes country or is run by a company located there.

sweetholymosiah ago

NSA spying is not relevant because we are all basically anonymous here. It's a public board!

Broc_Lia ago

We're not anonymous to the admins, nor are our PMs.

LazarusLong ago

Release the full text of the order as a stickied post on the front page.

Tantalus ago

The NSA can't order them to do anything if they aren't in the US.

Broc_Lia ago

They absolutely can if they're registered in the US. Doubly so if their servers are physically based there.

Tantalus ago

What are they going to do? They can't arrest them.

Broc_Lia ago

Kick their company off the register, freeze their accounts, confiscate their servers... I guess the codebase would still be up on github, but they'd be starting from scratch.

Edit: Also, extradite them and place them under arrest.

mukt ago

Are you ok with the possibility voat's servers getting seized as 'evidence' by some US agency?
And voat's financials and ... well they can find more. That is why they are spying in the first place.

Tantalus ago

Voat being a public message board, there is nothing they could get from seizing the servers that they wouldn't be able to get anyway.

mukt ago

IP addresses of users.
Even if they are hashed, NSA needs to reverse engineer just one key.

Krutonium ago

That's not how hashing works...

mukt ago

What did I miss?

Krutonium ago

Hashing is one-way, there is no key...

mukt ago

Some more details please.

Tantalus ago

Like they couldn't get that info already through easier means?

mukt ago

It is different when IP address is connected with your voat posts.AND, there is additional data available from other means like facebook or your bank account or your porn viewing habits.

Consider this: one may be targeted for political posts on voat, but since they get his IP and hence link him/her to something else, they target that person using that something else.

Knowing an IP address means nothing in itself, it is the internet habits coming from that IP that are of use.

Wmb102er ago

Take their money.

Klaue ago

Voat, GmbH!
yeah, I find it really sad that swiss laws are sometimes lacking a bit. I mean, it took an oversight to get certain types of porn of consenting adults legal and it was nearly reversed again when they found out. Fuck that.

GoodOldJR ago

Amazing news! Congratulations on becoming incorporated and being able to pay the bills. Can't wait to see the site continue to grow.

Gone_Private ago

I wanna buy a piece

30GoingOn13 ago

So glad to see the site moving forward in such a positive fashion! I'm excited for some new folks and hope we'll still run smoothly with the influx of traffic.

1535963? ago

This is a crucial moment. This is another step along a path that I dearly hope will be long and empowering. I do not believe, however, that this is merely another attempt at what should have by now succeeded. This is a step towards something truly great.

Br0k3nsn0fl6k32 ago

Congratulations on your forward progress. Personally very pleased with the site; would love some merchandise from The Goat Shop.

bolgz ago

Well, congratulations for you guys.

However, I feel that this is the same path taken as the other websites before...let's make the most of it while it last !

darwin_prime ago

However, I feel that this is the same path taken as the other websites before...

Agreed, It's concerning that almost no one seems to be thinking of this. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here. I say it's got about four or five years before the open-discussion, respect, and content fall away. Let's hope it will be a fun ride.

goronmon ago

Honestly, I don't mind having to rotate to a different site every 5 years. If it was every few months it would be frustrating.

darwin_prime ago

Alright, that's a pretty fair point. Nothing remains constant except change, I suppose.

sLnTsRvC ago

Congrats dude! Looking forward to seeing how great we can make this site.

Wafflebutt ago

Thank you for all your hard work to keep this site afloat! It's a fun place to be, even for old fogey's like me. :)

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Congradulations! I hope to see Voat blossom into a beautiful network!

axolotl__peyotl ago

I, for one, welcome our new corporate overgoats.

Cybernetic ago

This is such exciting news! Definitely a necessary step to keep the site moving forward. Thanks for all the hard work you've put in.

Just sent some bitcoin to help pay for hosting, etc.

gryphongod ago

Congrats you guys! Cheers!

warpdesign ago

Awesome, and congrats! Can't wait to be able to better support this site.

And USA was #1, yay us! (seriously though, that is a bit of a terrifying thought)

1535889? ago

Yay, congrats @atko and @puttitout :) This is going to be a fun ride!

drunkywood ago

The real take away - "U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched. "

Congrats on the level up, gents

Slug ago

Fantastic! :D

Congratulations, Atko!

Calza ago

Take my money!

jacobness ago

Best of luck! I see only great things in the future, guys.

fuckredditcensorship ago

Awesome news guys! I'm so happy to be here in the early days and be a part of watching this community (and I'm sure your focus in life haha) grow and turn into something amazing.

When you do start hiring, be sure to announce it. I'll jump on that opportunity.

markh110 ago

Guys, this is incredible :) Here's to your future, and to hoping the next few years are the most kick-ass they can be, no matter where they take you!

GoAskErin ago

So how's the corporation going to work? Structurally, other otherwise, what'cha got going on? Where do you want to go with this, and how do you want to grow?

Oknatora ago

Congrats and welcome to Freedom.

TheVillain61 ago

Implying that the US is a bastion of freedom and nowhere else is?

Oknatora ago

No. Just making a joke.

kenya ago

Congrats! If you need some software people for work who can be bribed frby pizza I'm your guy!

chubnubbin ago

The best part of this news is registrations being brought back.

cpebach ago

Congrats to you both...I am hopeful that you will thread the needle...grow the sight steadily and create a more robust site, while avoiding the same mistakes that Digg and Reddit made. Let's roll the bones!

sleepfight_me ago

This is great! Congratulations and way to hang in there and fight the good fight. Can't wait to see where we go from here!

Traditional_Values ago

Sweet. It's nice to see hard work is paying off. With that being said, I'm going to mail a dickbutt picture to the alien headquarters.

Kleyno ago

So, pot luck registrations, huh?

This'll be an interesting few weeks.

TheBlackerMath ago

Its like a game of craps with rotating tables. The dealer Controls everything and no one knows where the table will be, how long they will take bets, and when the wheel stops. it's gonna be awesome.

Redeyedjedi ago

Thanks for the great forum, and the hardwork that went into it.

My question now, is did you see the post about selling shares to users? Have you considrred this option? Because while donating to voat is one thing, i would put down a lot more money, and effort in promoting your site if it were possible to own even just a fractionbof a percent of it.

No_Regretzky ago

This all makes sense and can work but then Voat will be bound to shareholders. Voat won't only need to make money for themselves and to make the site work, they will need to accountable to their shareholders.

This can be good and bad:

Good: the shareholders with have more power and there is a better incentive to make this site popular Bad: The shareholders will be users but we can't control who those people are. Big companies can easily buy shares and control this site. Some users will buy shares as an investment and will see this as a money making opportunity and won't have the same values that some people would like this site to go.

just warning you on what may happen if part of the site does "go public"

DontTipTheVoatBaby ago

Valid points. As much as I would like to be a Voat shareholder, I wouldn't want Voat to have to consider the opinions and investments of countless people (with vastly different definitions of "success" for this site) when making any/all decisions. I can't help but think it would taint the free speech nature upon which it was founded. Hehehe...I said "taint".

No_Regretzky ago

I think the perfect balance would be selling add space to users. Voat user could use that add space to either promote a subverse, a link, their website, their company, a product, just say thanks to a user, proposal or even just leave it blank. This way the ads space would be from indie users and will not have any control on the content (they could pay more to have it appear on a specific subverse.

I just don't know if they could make enough money on those ads and of course Voat would need someone to mod those ads before they go up so that the ads space isn't just full of dick pics.

herzo ago

I'm in!

localbum ago

That's an amazingly good idea.

MadJack ago

I am also interested.

mudcatca ago

I'm for this as well!

Atko ago

Hi, yes, I saw the post and I am definitely for offering a portion of Voat shares to the users. We're still discussing this option and personally I think this would be a very good move, provided we cap the number of shares a single user could purchase in the first round so that everyone could get an equal chance. We'll see.

Smash3 ago

How and when will we find out how to invest. I'm interested

thgn ago

perhaps some form of an ESOP? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_ownership

No_Regretzky ago

Personally, I don't like the Shareholders because you lose some of the control of the site. I think the perfect balance would be selling add space to users. Voat user could use that add space to either promote a subverse, a link, their website, their company, a product, just say thanks to a user, wedding proposal or even just leave it blank. This way the ads space would be from indie users and will not have any control on the content (they could pay more to have it appear on a specific subverse.

That being said, Voat would need someone to mod those ads before they go up so that the ads space isn't just full of dick pics.

stateoftrance ago

Perhaps allocate shares for purchase based on metrics that represents brand loyalty, sign up date, etc.

dysfunctional_vet ago

I'd like to invest as well.

Can we do partial or small IPOs, because I'd love to have stock in Voat Inc, but don't have a whole lot of cash to drop at once.

ketsuban ago

Fantastic. Keep us updated! Lets test out this whole... American capitalism thing.

frenchtoasters ago

I think that if the users were able to buy some kind of influential portion, just enough to be something like a board member. Would be a GREAT idea!!!!!! That would show dedication to the userbase and build a real community.

valerietheblonde ago

I think this would be a good move.

Bioreactor ago

Would it be possible to cap the total percent any one person or corporation could have?

revfelix ago

I've already donated, (still waiting on the badge), but I would definitely be all about investing.

glugglug ago

Do not do this. Publicly traded companies are legally beholden to shareholders. Which will inevitably end up being large corporations through illegal market manipulation, and will turn it into yet another censored SJW shill echo chamber.

woobie ago

This makes me very happy! :)

CamillaBok ago

Socialism FTW!

Gone_Private ago

I would be very interested in obtaining shares.

Brah ago

I warn against selling shares. What is to prevent a competitor from buying Voat out completely? Those who own most of Voat may control and censor it as they please, right?

GenellanBound ago

You hold a majority of the shares and sell a fraction less than half.

Then no one can override your control.

Lindeed ago

Yeah, but if he have no shares left to sell then it might be very hard for him to get funds in future, so i would say selling no more than ~35%. That way you still have 14% if you'll find investor. Which we hope won't happend because look at the R site. I hope we can donate enough for site and @Atko needs.

ForgotMyName ago

Business 101 here folks. :)

Redeyedjedi ago

Awesome. That's great to hear. Thanks for the reply. And everything else. You're doing an amazing job.

wild_injun ago

Great news on an otherwise mundane monday. This makes me happy!

Thank You!

Impuredeath ago

Success with the beginning of your journey.

distortedlines ago

I am extremely happy for you guys, I love this site and I hope it continues to grow.

danunit ago

Nice work! Would be cool to buy some Voat merch :D

gbj1301 ago

You are welcome to move to Iceland when IMMI comes into law here :)

InternetUser ago

Interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.

Majatek ago

It's been a long time coming, and there's a long road ahead. I'm glad to be part of this, and I look forward to Voat's future!

jaschac ago

U.S. law by far beats every other candidate country we’ve researched.

Well, that's a mildly terrifying thought. :\

But the important take-away from this: Congratulations on the milestone! Looking forward to seeing Voat grow. :)

LazarusLong ago

The us constitution itself is a thing of beauty.

The problem we're having right now is lawmakers and police completely disregarding it.

Ina_Pickle ago

I thought the same exact thing. lol

With the way things are going here, if we are truly still the freest country in the world, then God help us all.

But maybe I am so used to our ways, that I take them for granted.

Stanley_Yelnats_IV ago

It's unfortunately true. As much as free speech has been under attack in the US lately, almost everywhere else is much worse. To the best of my knowledge, the US is in fact the only developed country that doesn't ban "hate speech;" in other words, it's the only place left where you can't be thrown in jail for offending someone.

CosmicSans ago

Most countries do not have a free speech guarantee in their constitution or analogous governing document.

Rea11yN0tMe ago

The US is one of the rare western countries that has no 'hate speech' laws on the book. And thanks to the constitution, that is not going to change either:

Traditionally, however, if the speech did not fall within one of the above categorical exceptions, it was protected speech. In 1969, the Supreme Court protected a Ku Klux Klan member’s racist and hate-filled speech and created the ‘imminent danger’ test to permit hate speech. The court ruled in Brandenburg v. Ohio that; "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States

Compare that to the other countries in the Wikipedia article and what passes as freedom to speak your mind there.

Edit: 'Freeze peach', as American as apple pie!

l-emmerdeur ago

It isn't, though. The 1st Amendment is holy here. So holy that the govt does insane things like saying corporations are people entitled to free speech and destroying elections as a consequence merely under the broad protections of the 1st amendment.

Everything else may be debatable, but the 1st isn't.

rwbj ago

Why? While there is certainly a private sector attack on free speech happening in the US, it's one of the few constitutional rights the government continues to support almost without exception. One of the most recent rulings was Snyder v Phelps related to the Westboro Baptist Church. The supreme court upheld the right of a church members to picket about 1000 feet from a military funeral with signs stating things like "God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11", "Thank God for IEDs”, “Thank God for Dead Soldiers,” “Priests Rape Boys,” “God Hates Fags”, and so on. They were sued for among other things the intentional infliction of emotional distress. The supreme court voted 8-1 in favor of the picketers. I suppose the fact it had to make it to the supreme court is disconcerting, but for now at least it wasn't even close to an issue.

Walther ago

There is a catch though. There was no money to be made there, so the ruling was probably fair and nobody was pressured to do anything. When it comes to sites like voat that make it easy for people to find real news, leaks etc. there are many parties who want to control the outcome and suddenly that 8-1 ruling turns into a 1-8 ruling. That is what i'm scared of, but i can also understand that Atko took the best option available.

sergeant_skip ago

I'm really curious who wrote the dissenting opinion, but too lazy to look it up myself.

MisterWings ago

It is because the second they do start trying to curb it they will get removed from office by vote or by force if they start messing with votes. Americans as a whole still have that rebellious streak that first caused the founding of the country in the first place and curbing the freedom to be critical of the government is outright tyrany. Also we have guns owned by the public and many of them are former members of the military who are also hardliners on the Constitution so the government would have one hell of a problem on it's hands if they did try anything stupid. Especially since that is the one right that keeps people docile even though there is attacks of the other 9 happening all the time.

TheBuddha ago

Ha! I had guessed (and almost typed) that Alito would be the lone voice of dissent. I figured I would follow your link to see. Sure enough, Alito and his dissent... I did not bother to read it. Wow, I really hate Alito. At least he acted exactly as I expected him to. It allows me to hate him and feel good about it.

Note that I do not, by any means, support WBC. I abhor their actions beyond belief. However, I strongly support their right to say what ever they want. I would not go out of my way to commit a crime but, if they happened to be where I was, I would happily pay the fine and do the weekend in jail just and feel good about it - after punching one of them in the face multiple times.

I am not a very good Buddhist but, in my defense, I am not a monk. Phillip Phelps really needs a good crack in the jaw. General Principle (and his army of ants) has determined this to be true. I support their right to say whatever they want. I support my freedom to crack them in the jaw. (Note: Rights and freedoms are not even remotely the same. I am free to kill you. I do not have a right to kill you.)

sleepycarrot ago

You've redefined freedom to triviality. According to your definition, you're free to do anything, no?

TheBuddha ago

Sorry for the delay but, yes. You are, in fact, free to do anything. You are not at liberty to do so. To stop freedoms one must physically be restrained. Rights, on the other hand, are an entirely different bowl of wax. I have no right to kill you but I am perfectly free to do so. I did not define anything, I used the existing definition.

antiplebbitor ago

Clearly you're from the Shao-lin school, eh?

eldorann ago

People are free to kill anyone they wish unless they themselves are killed first.

InnocentBystander ago

it's one of the few constitutional rights the government continues to support

I guess that's the fear. While they have done well with speech, they have wiped their ass with other rights (eg. privacy). How long until free speech helps terrorists? They also have a history of manipulating and suppressing information despite any laws to protect it.

I don't really have any better options. But I feel that while this may be the 'best' option, it's not really a good one.

Gordam ago

There's also the possibility where the government could surreptitiously censor stuff, but if pointed out they can refer to upholding WBC's hateful asses as "proof" they're upholding free speech even in extreme cases.

Amadameus ago

They continue to support free speech because, with a spider crawling places like Reddit and scoring users based on keywords, it's such a convenient way to flag people as troublemakers.

Speak out enough, and you'll get yourself on a list somewhere.

HinkMyDinkD00d ago

They haven't really done well with speech though. Ever heard of free speech zones?

Bathroom_Humor ago

For reals. The U.S. isn't constantly going around shutting down sites like this, but I don't think it is the ultimate in freedom of speech or expression... If they find SOME reason (doesn't need to be a good one) to apply pressure to Atko and co, they will do it until they get what they want. Federal Seizure without warning can happen. I just hope it never will!

JoelTheSuperior ago

Precisely this. Never happened to me but having spoken to server hosting companies before apparently it was pretty common for the FBI to turn up and demand to have a server handed over to them with no timeframe or anything for its return given.

zaiguy ago

It's true. Laws are just pieces of paper for today's governments. They know we don't have the resources to seek redress in the court system and they own the firepower.

There are no free countries, just varying degrees of oppression.

BobbyTables ago

They need to establish a Warrant Canary NOW! I'll echo what some others have noted. I think there are far better choices than the U.S. to run a site like Voat right now. Canada, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Sweden or even Hong Kong would have been better choices. U.S. law enforcement atmosphere is antithetical to what I understood to be the spirit of Voat. I hope I'm wrong, but this seems to be a poor decision at this point.

tame ago

The company is incorporated in the U.S. The servers don't have to be hosted there.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

The data is tunneled unencrypted through the US, and a US company holds Voat's SSL keys.

It doesn't matter where the company is incorporated or where the servers "are". We don't even need to talk about those topics to conclude that Voat is already fucked.

glugglug ago

For reals. The U.S. isn't constantly going around shutting down sites like this

You haven't been paying attention the past few years...

1536659? ago

The reason the Federal government doesn't shut down sites is because the vast majority of sites comply with the orders to give the government backdoors. Only the companies that don't are the ones that get shut down, and the CEOs end up in prison for unrelated crimes that the government just mysteriously gets evidence for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveillance_requests

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit#Suspension_and_gag_order

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/20/why-did-lavabit-shut-down-snowden-email

They'll come for Voat, either legally or with a forged cert that lets them sniff the traffic via one of their Internet backbone wiretaps. They'll know the IP addresses of every poster that criticizes the US government, just like Reddit.

MaestroOfMirages ago

If this isn't proof of corruption at the highest levels of government EVERYTHING I don't know what is.

darkrxn ago

Two users downvoated you? I cant even

bigfondue ago

What would they gain from a backdoor? 99% of the discussion on the site is in public, and I assume the NSA has some ssl exploits up their sleeves to intercept PMs. I really don't think they need it.

1544873? ago

For the association of your username to your real name

Freakazoid ago

Voat needs to set up a canary for when they're inevitably gag ordered.

1682015? ago

Only five days later, and they did. /v/announcements

Freakazoid ago

I'm impressed.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

They'll come for Voat

They don't have to come for Voat. They only need to come to CloudFlare who was given Voat's SSL keys. It doesn't matter where Voat's servers are; all traffic is being tunneled through CloudFlare.

They'll know the IP addresses of every poster that criticizes the US government, just like Reddit.

No thanks, I'll use Tor :)

id ago

It really is overrated and pretty breakable. Thats all I'm saying.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Tor is not broken; it's how you use it that can make it effective or ineffective.

Twist ago

its suppeerrr not foolproof.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

It's how you use it.

1542556? ago

No thanks, I'll use Tor :)

Don't slip up! Ever.

magnetismen ago

I've been thinking about moving to Tor for a while, what do you mean with "don't slip up, ever"?

Upvoats_McGoats ago

It means that in order to trace your username to your real name it only takes one slip up. Once that happens, using Tor means nothing.

magnetismen ago

Ok, so if I were to start using TOR and use that whenever connecting to, say, Skype, my mail, Voat etc. I would be anonymous until the moment I slip up and use one of them without my TOR browser? Would I need to create new accounts for everything when using TOR?

Upvoats_McGoats ago

Well, here's the thing - you can't use any of those if you wish to remain anonymous. Your Skype account isn't anonymous nor is your mail. To actually stay off the government radar you have to do a LOT that very few people are willing to do. There was an encrypted email service that got forced to shut down because they were doing such a good job of keeping the government out. The guy announced the service was shutting down literally sitting next to his lawyer because of how little he could actually say about why. It was obvious, though, that they gave him an option to either let them in the back door or face the full force of the government's lawyers and goons.

Basically, it's easier to stay off the government's radar by moving your whole damn life to another country than it is maintain everything you need within the US.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Basically, it's easier to stay off the government's radar by moving your whole damn life to another country than it is maintain everything you need within the US.

For your personal matters, this is not generally a problem in the United States. Passwords to your own data or personal systems are protected by the right against self-incrimination.

It's when you are running a business or service that you can run into trouble, because demanding access under penalty of legal sanction does not violate the 5th amendment right against self-incrimination. Though forcing backdoors and/or broad surveillance is definitely anti-constitutional, as described after this, they would have a much harder time defending their actions in court due to the right against self-incrimation:

...and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Upvoats_McGoats ago

The NSA simply doesn't work within the confines of constitutionality.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

Violating the right against self incrimination is a much bigger deal.

wmq ago

Here's a good guide on staying private (not anonymous, apparently it's almost impossible) on the Internet: https://www.privacytools.io

golisten2lennywhite2 ago

Nice links you got there ;)

matt ago

Yep. Atko will eventually bend over or they will find a way to fuck him. They are crafty. Last one I paid attention to was "insider trading" that led to a nice vacation in the Fed Penn

FPSFairy ago

You don't think they wouldn't get information they wanted just because a site's servers aren't in the US, do you?

I mean, sure, it makes it easier, but keep in mind we're talking about a group that's given ludicrous amounts of money for the purpose of being the biggest assholes on the internet.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

You don't think they wouldn't get information they wanted just because a site's servers aren't in the US, do you?

This question doesn't even need to be asked because it doesn't matter that Voat's servers are "in" Switzerland. Voat tunnels its traffic unencrypted through the United States and its SSL keys are held by a company in the US.

Ramenator ago

The traffic is usually reencrypted using self signed certs on the internal side of the firewall.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

I actually didn't know if CF re-used SSL keys when communicating back to the website. Thanks.

When I say "tunnels its traffic unencrypted" I am specifically referring to the fact that the traffic is decrypted inside the United States. It doesn't matter whether the traffic is unencrypted for 1 inch or for 1,000 miles: we've clearly seen that the FBI gets away with acting as the judicial branch and also with reaching way beyond the limits of the Constitution.[1] [2] CloudFlare is so large that there is no way a government agency doesn't have its paws inside CF. They can just forget going directly after specific services; people just give up their SSL keys to CF.

1537005? ago

In Switzerland or any other non-EU country there's at least a chance that the NSA would be limited to metadata analysis of incoming and outgoing traffic only. In the US the only thing stopping them from waltzing into the data centers and performing classified maintenance is the relative unpopularity of Voat.

Though I'm sure he's well aware, Atko could be reminded that a defense that is based in the US constitution only works if you are permitted to make the basic discoveries needed to challenge the US government in court. That evidence is always classified, and thus a judge will immediately dismiss your case for being groundless, and for involving state secrets.

We've seen the rise of grassroots political organization on Reddit, and then saw it suddenly castrated. I suspect that that zenith coincided with the point at which it became worthwhile for the government and corporations to begin interfering with the site. It can happen to Voat.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

In Switzerland or any other non-EU country there's at least a chance that the NSA would be limited to metadata analysis of incoming and outgoing traffic only. In the US the only thing stopping them from waltzing into the data centers and performing classified maintenance is the relative unpopularity of Voat.

It doesn't matter what the laws of Switzerland or of any other country are. The laws and behaviors of the United States are all we need to talk about in order to understand that Voat's data is already at risk and there will be no recourse.

immediately dismiss your case for being groundless

They would actually dismiss it on a lack of standing: the fact that a party is not able to demonstrate that it was harmed.

ScienceCat ago

The Feds only seize sites suspected to be hosting pirated files or breaking copyright as far as I know. I've never heard of them seizing a social media site. I don't think Voat has to be worried about any of that as long as they maintain a hands-off approach with their userbase.

flimflamedthezimzam ago

Why would you seize a social media site? That's like burning your informant for being a snitch.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

The Feds only seize sites suspected to be hosting pirated files or breaking copyright as far as I know.

This is just sad. USG at its finest.

It's true, by the way. No need for conviction, reason, or any possible recourse.

matt ago

They don't seize them. The worry is that if they want access to the info they apply pressure until you give the info up. Then nondisclosure agreement your ass.

ScienceCat ago

What info? You don't even need an email address to register on Voat. Voat has zero personal info on its users. Any info that could be retrieved about people on here is all public, no legal threats to the owner are necessary.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

IP addresses.

We're talking about very identifiable information being linked to people's thoughts and comments.

There is no need for legal threats because they have already accomplished compromising Voat's traffic.

Klaue ago

The thing is, name a better one. Germany, where you have to absolutely prove your visitors are 18+ to serve any sort of adult content? GB where female orgasm is illegal? etc.
Only place would probably be Sealand and I don't know if they can be trusted with something like this.

Also sad is that Atko probably has to transfer ownership, because as far as I remember, swiss law states that it doesn't matter where the server is, if the guy owning it is swiss, swiss laws apply to it and therefore him

heroicdanger ago

The female orgasm us not illegal in the UK. That's a misremembering of a joke about a story talking about a proposal and its interpretation

Confusion ago

Ireland? There is a reason that all the IT companies and corporation HQs are in Ireland;

  • Cheap Taxes
  • Close to EU market without being physically in them
  • Government don't have the power, influence or need to need to examine data that comes in and out of country
  • Part of EU with strict privacy laws
  • Irish Government get final say about what happens... and they generally like to keep the companies happy even if it means stopping the US government.
  • They don't care about racism and sexism on the internet so threats won't do anything.

Ireland might be good. Conservative and progressive in the right places so there aren't any radicals.

Kookus ago

You don't have to have a better answer to know that the current one is inadequate.

pagantree ago

I dont think he needs to give up control of the company, nor ownership. If he creates a Trust that owns and controls an LLC in the united states that owns and controls Voat, Inc (the corporation), and all are controlled by him. I would go with a Trust, and you need that LLC between your Trust and the corporation for tax purposes and to limit liability. The one degree of separation (LLC) would essentially make you immune to any liability.

Klaue ago

Yeah, that's actually what I meant, but doesn't change much as that would surely come up in NSFW subverses anyway

Stoeicijn ago

As far as I know the act of having a female orgasm is not illegal in GB. Producing porn depicting a female orgasm is not illegal either afaik, unless the female in question is a squirter. Producing porn depicting female ejaculation is illegal, god knows why. Please do correct me if I'm wrong as I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

CrashingAnalyst ago

god knows why

They wrote the law to ban the production of dubious consent or violent pornography - they didn't want people making rape porn essentially.

But then as with all things in the wrangling that happened during the bills writing it banned pretty much everything fun. As far as I know nobody has been prosecuted by it however.

JoelTheSuperior ago

Correct - there's plenty of silly laws in the UK that people have fortunately not ever been prosecuted over but for a new company you probably want to form in the safest place possible.

Le_Squish ago

Or we could do something crazy and figure out to have community owned servers.

k0bra ago

Wait, GB meaning Great Britain? It's illegal for porn to show a female orgasm??

wow.

antiplebbitor ago

formerly-great Britain

FIFY

Obi_juan ago

British men simply aren't that used to seeing them. Wouldn't want to shock their sensibilities now would we?

EDIT: I kid I kid. I love the UK.

RaxSnax ago

Savage

Alybad ago

Yeah. Not just that though, a whole lot of stuff. Here's a list

KungFuJesus ago

GB where female orgasm is illegal

Illegal for porn production companies to produce and sell. Your point still stands, just making a correction.

Saerain ago

Additional correction: not orgasm for fuck's sake, but "squirting" porn, because it's watersports.

Klaue ago

Yeah of course! Outlawing female orgasm everywhere would be quite disturbing, I mean even more than it's already

CowboyRob ago

So they're into hyperrealism?

Atko ago

The world is a weird place now... Also, I am not Swiss even though I am currently living in Switzerland. I am Swedish :)

SandorClegane ago

haha, I keep seeing news sites reporting that lately. Ya might as well make it official at this point!

(Don't forget to join the guard! They have some great uniforms!)

Klaue ago

Ah. My patriotism took a blow right now! ;)

Vorontsov ago

Jasså? Fyfan de visste man inte. Nice going! Is there any laws in Netherlands / Scandinavian Countries prohibiting you from hosting it there?

ForgotMyName ago

He's afraid Ikea won't let him eat cheap meatballs anymore if someone says something bad about them on the site. Gotta register outside of Sweden to protect the meatball supply.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Them meatballs are so damn tasty though.

ForgotMyName ago

Hell yeah they are. I can't blame him.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Couldn't blame anyone. I would kill for those balls.

ForgotMyName ago

I can honestly say they're probably some of the best savory balls I've ever had in my mouth.

GuenMakunikoru ago

To quote sweden's most famous chef on the topic of meatballs: "A bork a bork bork bork.."

Wonderboy ago

Great news. Thanks for the update. A few of us, myself included, were getting a little (prematurely) edgy. Keep up the good work and I look forward to watching the place take off.

sakuramboo ago

This is great news! Congrats /u/Atko!

Does this mean there will Voat Goat Hats? I'll buy one!

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

I'll buy whatever Atko makes. Unless it's shitty.

Atko ago

Heh, thanks but I don't think I can create good stuff. I think we'll invite you guys to create designs and whatever is upvoted the most, we'll put it up for sale.

zillzill401 ago

Like a craft sale where the users make crafts and the site profits?

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Still gonna buy it.

flyawayhigh ago

So now we can work towards providing a sustainable model for Voat.

I say we should throw on some syndicated ads immediately. I know people hate ads, but we are probably talking about an easy four-figures per month immediately. Syndicated ads create no significant conflict-of-interest. The only relationship is with the syndication company. There have been many start ups lately and we see them at many major sites -- so they must be doing well. Google's dominant market share on internet advertising will not last. :)

darwin_prime ago

Nah, personally I'd much rather pay a subscription than view ads. I absolutely hate advertising, and find that it eventually becomes poison. Advertising revenue begins to take over eventually, are we already forgetting what evolved over at Reddit?

No_Regretzky ago

It is sad to say but any website like Digg and Reddit, will fall the same way if they can't find a better way to make money. The reality of things is, these sites need a lot of money to run properly. To gain the money they need to stay big, they need to compromise Freedom of Speech to get some sort of advertising. Unless we find a better way to monetize a site (subscription will never work because they won't get the volume they need) at one point they will run out of money and need ads to make it live.

darwin_prime ago

I know, this is the actual truth of the matter. :/ I just wish so bad that there could be some way to keep sites like this sincere and honest. I'm too idealistic for my own good at times.

No_Regretzky ago

I think ads can work if they sell ads space to users. This way it will be more indie advertising and they won't request the site to modify their culture. That said, not sure if ads from small business will be enough to support a big site.

darwin_prime ago

That said, not sure if ads from small business will be enough to support a big site.

That is the question, but I guess it's worth trying. I'd rather try advertising from actual users first rather than the way it's usually done.

you-dumbass ago

They work pretty well for Rooster Teeth and Team Four Star

mountainvoat ago

So as far as what is permitted and what's prohibited, is the standard now what's legal/illegal in the US? (as opposed to Switzerland)

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Um, no CP. Don't think doxxes are legal either.

mukt ago

CP is legal in Switzerland?

anonagent ago

Doxing is perfectly legal.

taxation_is_slavery ago

Doxxing is legal.

Tsugumori ago

Libel could theoretically come up, too. It's really hard to prove, though.

Ludacris_Ginger ago

Congratulations. I've only been on Voat for a short time, but I'm looking forward to what you guys will create along with the help of the user base.

brbpierogies ago

Congratulations! And thank you.

lloydwitty ago

A big round of applause for the little guys. Here's to the future!

TahTahBur ago

To the Future!

Cletis ago

What does the original painting depict?

tehyosh ago

The Pilgrims board the Mayflower to sail to the New World. The Pilgrims founded the colony of Plymouth, in what is now Massachusetts, in 1620.

http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/art-151087/The-Pilgrims-board-the-Mayflower-to-sail-to-the-New

Google reverse image search FTW

Broc_Lia ago

Wait, reddit is the new world and voat is the establishment?

Cletis ago

I can't use my brain like that, what do you expect of me? Jeez

1535518? ago

Some people are going to be seriously pissed about it being registered in the U.S but it's your website.

Punk_As_Pingu ago

Not being American was the only thing that this site had going for it in my opinion (even though it was filling up with yankee rednecks at an alarming rate.)

Sorry guys but, fuck this place. Enjoy your cesspool.

ChronicYonik ago

Why?

The US has some of the best and least restrictive free speech laws in the world. There is less restriction on free speech in the US than any country in Europe.

WolfPackNigga ago

This site is filled with Atko Cocksuckers anyway. If he would give it to them in the ass, they would gladly take it and ask for more.

OmicronPersei8 ago

I liked the Pirate Bay's idea of hosting their servers in a literal cloud.

tcp ago

Imagine Atko's surprise when he finds out the US has secret courts that will use the wadded up scraps of the constitution to gag him while they pull all the records of "extremist" users directly from his servers. Actually, I figure Atko will be gone by then because the move is ill-advised unless he is looking to sell out ASAP.

nonethewiser ago

The kid wants investor money. Best way to get that is to incorporate in the US.

WolfPackNigga ago

dat Silicon Valley, my nigga

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

The kid? I thought he was a squid!

neon_squirrel ago

He's both, actually. Like Octodad, or Zoidberg, maybe?

sprdpr ago

goat, kid, get it?

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

I know. I was trying to a funny.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

Tru dat. It's his money, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it.

MCVoat ago

What if he has a structured settlement but he needs cash now?

MCVoat ago

Why would people be pissed?

taco ago

If you host content/incorporated in US, then you have to bend to DCMA requests, MPAA... NSA... there are many many groups (not all government either) that have interest in castrating a place like voat.

CowWithBeef ago

Gag orders make it hard to know exactly what the government has done to reduce liberty on the website.

Gigan ago

NSA.

OPNAV6110 ago

Being in the USA makes it legally more difficult for the NSA. 4th amendment still applies.

junk ago

So? There is no sensitive information stored here. It's all public so if even it was incorporated somewhere in Africa they could find the exact same information as in the US.

kyoot ago

Switzerland is considered a 'frustrating alpine democracy' by the NSA. According to Wikileaks/Snowden that is.

bigfondue ago

Considering that they have unfettered power outside the US, but are at least in theory bound by US law domestically I think this point is irrelevant. We have the most permissive free speech laws in the world. Where else is completely legal to discuss illegal things? In Europe, if someone were to post something denying the Holocaust, voat would have to take it down. I don't agree with Holocaust denyers, but somewhere where certain speech is deemed illegal is not the place for a bastion of free speech.

Dryad ago

US also abolished freedom of speech years ago. If you just look at the laws it's still around, but you simply don't have the right to speak your mind anymore, it's a good way to get put on a list.

HoneyNutStallmans ago

NSA.

They have had access to Voat for quite some time already.

JunOS ago

Information or data being looked into is better than it being completely censored imo.

Double edged sword, unfortunately. >.<

gnarvin ago

Because the NSA only keeps tabs on American companies and people, duh.

Dargok ago

Outside of the US, NSA can't have the government compel you to hand over data. Yes, the NSA monitors everyone from everywhere, but why make it easier for them?

MaleGoddess ago

But I really don't think they would need a warrant to read your post history on voat.

Dargok ago

The post history of an account, no. But, they need information outside of what is public on Voat to tie the profile to who I am. That is where the need for a warrant comes from.

Just_A_Voat ago

Thats awesome. Congrats for you guys.

mountainvoat ago

Atko: thanks for what you've done here.

I hope you realize how important Voat is to the idea of free and open discussion.

edit: and congratulations on your incorporation!

Sacrix ago

Voat, Inc. is no longer a student side project but a corporation registered in the U.S.

Thanks to things like the Patriot Act, Voat is subject to horribly backwards laws that would force it to give up certain information under gag orders.

Choosing the US, of all places... Yeah, the hugbox here may like it, but I certainly don't, and this is effective now the end of my membership here. Bye.

NotAnOctopus ago

I noticed you only reference these backwards laws vaguely because you probably learned about them on reddit. Other countries almost certainly have ones that are just as bad, you just haven't heard about them because they don't have the same protections that allow us to openly talk about them.

Dresser ago

You are ending your membership because they established themselves in the U.S ? Something tells me you never actually left Reddit

babajee ago

I hope they stay strong! Many companies start with free speech... but after becoming larger corporations only remember the smell of the dollar!

AmaIek2000 ago

Incorporated status just gives him liability protection. Anybody can incorporate a business for around 1000$ or less.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

It's gonna be a fun ride from here on out.

toxicass ago

Yup, I completely support your right to allow us to discuss things that need discussion. As long as preying on children is reported and stamped out.

SongAboutYourPost ago

Song About Your Quote: https://soundcloud.com/songsaboutyourpost/its-gonna-be-a-fun-ride-from-here-on-out

That was a lot of fun! head over to /v/SongAboutYourPost to see all the crap and feel free to summon good ol' /u/SongAboutYourPost whenever.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

That would be a dank-ass ringtone.

SongAboutYourPost ago

tone that shit up, arotaes!

bangorbuck ago

buckle up!

GeneralBoobington ago

i'm not going to watch anything on youtube for more than 3 minutes.

GeneralBoobington ago

Hello, again.

SongAboutYourPost ago

that'd be a good song.

Smiler ago

Remember where you heard it first!

SongAboutYourPost ago

I jus got pwnx0rzed!

btw, I was thinking banjo. Whatever.

pwn ago

I play the bagpipes, not the banjo :(

1080p ago

Close enough?

SongAboutYourPost ago

this is what I came up with: https://soundcloud.com/songsaboutyourpost/its-gonna-be-a-fun-ride-from-here-on-out

check out the sub (/v/SongAboutYourPost) and/or summon ole /u/SongAboutYourPost for nightly songification.

eraptic ago

Ahhh my stomping around, fucking shit up song!! Best video clip too

beerok ago

I was thinking this.

pickelz4 ago

It's not Voat it's Voat, Inc. now!

king_of_the_universe ago

I'm upvoatinc this.

thetracker3 ago

I thought I would be leaving behind the terribly amazing puns of reddit. Thankfully I was wrong.

Klaue ago

Voatinc sounds like a nice robot name, maybe someone should redesign the voat goat into the Voat, Inc Goatbot

Pyractic ago

Aw dude I love this idea. A robot. With a little robot goat, or a robot with a little goat.

Klaue ago

So Gohtic

ecoponderosa ago

we are Voatinc with our keyboards

to seek the free and open in the cybersphere

we are here

huge gratitude to Atko and his friends and supporters

SlothDemon ago

GoatBot should be the name for Automoderator on this site.

Derbl ago

Sounds like the accented english for what we do here all day...

Donbuster ago

Sanic and his evil enemy Dr Voatbotinc

Atherz097 ago

Isn't the Reddit logo some robot thing?

Sciencegirl ago

I thought it was a robot too, then I looked again guess it does resemble an alien more.

Klaxon ago

It is an alien named Snoo.

Arotaes_Forgehammer ago

It could ride in a Goatmobile.