Morbo ago

Hold up there. There's just one big problem with your claims:

Glutamate is common and abundant throughout nature. It is a component of your body and your foods.

Foods rich in free glutamate, such as tomatoes, cheese and mushrooms are often used in cooking for their flavorful qualities. Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a glutamate (the salt of glutamic acid with sodium), one of the most abundant amino acids in nature and an important component of protein. Glutamate in food imparts a unique taste (called umami). Umami, often described as ‘meaty,’ ‘broth-like,’ or ‘savory’ in English, is known as ‘Xian-Wei’ in Chinese and may correspond to the ‘Osmazome’ concept captured by French scholars in the XIX century. Glutamate has been a component of flavor enhancing seasonings since ancient Rome as ‘Garum’ and in Japan for more than 1200 years.

Glutamate is a naturally occurring amino acid and is necessary for human life. It is often found naturally as monosodium glutamate and we even have taste receptors for it suggesting this is of vital importance to the body. MSG and other glutamates are not synthetic only and their presence in processed foods is due to its important flavoring role. The umami flavor sense is why we like chicken so much. We also like chicken broth and sauces like Worcestershire because of the glutamates imparting so much umami. We are naturally programmed to enjoy it and crave it.

As for balding, DHT (dihydrogen testosterone) was implicated as the major culprit in male pattern baldness. Never once until your post had I heard there was concern that glutamates were linked to balding (source?). If there is a correlation, it most likely isn't a causitive link but instead associated with something else in individuals with high DHT levels. Same goes with migraines. People have claimed migraines with MSG intake, but only when they knew the food contained MSG. Tomatoes contain substantial amounts of MSG as do cheeses and mushrooms. Why have I never heard one complaint of migraines when people eat mushroom pizza? That pizza would contain at least three source of MSG but no one ever seems to get migraines from them. Perhaps if these migraine-prone people knew how much MSG was in mushroom pizza they would then "react" to it and have migraines. It seems the link between MSG and migraines is whether or not people know its there and what their perception of MSG is. If they think it's bad and they know it's there, then psychosomatically they will react to it. If they don't know it's there then they are fine. Power or suggestion and all that jazz.

Source: https://glutamate.org/nutrition/a-natural-part-of-our-food/

(I'm sure this link will be discounted as "Big MSG" pushing propaganda, but your tongue receptors and associated brain response may disagree).

The_Duke_of_Dabs ago

Mono-

Glutamate is fine. Its the mono thats bad.

Morbo ago

What? The mono- in monosodium glutamate just means their is one sodium ion attached to a glutamate ion. The body makes no distinction between free glutamate (glutamic acid) and compounded glutamates (like MSG). The is approximately 30% less sodium in MSG compared to NaCl (table salt) for the given taste threshold. MSG actually gives you less sodium per serving intake than regular table salt. How is that bad?

The_Duke_of_Dabs ago

Morbo, I'm not a scientist. I'm a Chef, and from my cursory understanding, "MSG" in large amounts; can and will, cause balding. I wish I could find an article from some site that you'd deem appropriate; but unfortunately I don't want to waste my time.

Having worked in the food service industry for over 20 years; based on my anecdotal testimony, MSG causes headaches and baldness, IF IT IS OVER CONSUMED. I'm sure if you wanted you could find it our yourself.

I never said MSG is bad. I said the over consumption of it was.

Roughpatch ago

That mean the congresswoman presley eats doritoes in bed? It a shame for women to be bald on purpose. She sick? Why would a women choose to be bald?

TrialsAndTribulation ago

The worst flaming I ever received on plebbit is when I said my wife gets migraines after eating MSG. They would not relent even after I said this wasn't conjecture and supposition, it was based on empirical observation, and the duration and intensity of her migraines were directed proportional to the amount of MSG she ate. (Yes, we conducted tests to see which foods caused migraines to know to avoid them.) God, I fucking hate the faggots at plebbit. I didn't know about the balding, though, although I kind of got a look at my future when I was young and saw my dad and all my uncles going bald. It was like trying to stop the tide, I thought.

Roughpatch ago

Baldness passes through from the mothers genes.

TrialsAndTribulation ago

Huh, so it is. My uncles on my mom's side of the family all had thinning hair and male pattern baldness.

Morbo ago

Male pattern baldness is strongly linked to excess DHT (dihydrogen testosterone) production. When Rogaine (minoxidil) was developed, it was meant to be a DHT blocker that would protect hair follicles from damage caused by DHT uptake. If you have a familial history of male pattern baldness, then your issue is with genetics and DHT not MSG.

BTW, your body will naturally produce MSG/glutamate if you do not take in sufficient amounts from the foods you eat such as tomatoes, cheeses, mushrooms, chicken and beef for example. MSG/glutamate/glutamic acid are found in these foods with tomatoes being the highest source of naturally occurring glutamates. There is no distinction in the body between free glutamate (glutamic acid) and glutamate salts (monosodium glutamate). A pizza with cheese and mushrooms should cause a migraine in your wife since it has high MSG levels from the tomatoes, cheese and mushrooms. Does she get migraines when eating pizza? Maybe you should test this one out, but don't tell her about the high levels of MSG until after she has eaten it and waited a while. Don't want the perception of high MSG levels to be the real trigger to her migraines.

TrialsAndTribulation ago

Yup, definitely genetics. I've been pretty lucky with the genetic hand I was dealt, and if baldness is the worst thing in my genes, I'm better off than most people.

Don't want the perception of high MSG levels to be the real trigger to her migraines.

I actually considered that and took it into account when we were experimenting with her diet to prevent a placebo effect. (She's very suggestible and I think I could induce a migraine if I told her moonlight causes migraines in some people. I wouldn't, though, obviously.) I hadn't heard of glutamic acid, so I think we're going to have to experiment to see what her threshold is. Thanks for the information.

Morbo ago

Good luck in your experiments. I know that my experiences with family members who had glutamate sensitivities and migraines only did so when they knew there was MSG present. After some experiments of my own, I found that they had no idea MSG was added to foods I prepared for them, then there would be no migraines. It's amazing how we can will ourselves sick if we are so inclined. Hopefully you discover your wife is sensitive to suggestion rather than the necessary nutrient of glutamate. BTW, glutamic acid and glutamate are the same thing. The difference in names are just descriptions of whether or not the glutamate is free (acid) or bonded (molecular compound). The body makes no distinction in these different types as with pretty much all other amino acid complexes. The sodium part of MSG is just a convenient carrier to keep free glutamic acid stable and consistent in composition. MSG actually bring 30% less sodium to your diet than regular NaCl table salt. Interesting tidbits.

TrialsAndTribulation ago

I learned that even though many prepared foods say "no added MSG", it tends to hide in things like autolyzed yeast extract and things listed in the ingredients as "other flavors".

Interesting tidbits.

Indeed. Good, useful information.