The true answer is probably that neither was a hero but comparing the two perhaps highlights the misplaced hero worship accorded McCain.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-04-29/news/mn-60230_1_16th-infantry
McVeigh won seven medals and a service ribbon, including the Bronze Star.
"His selfless actions were key to the flawless execution of the mission, the liberation of Kuwait and the ultimate defeat of the Iraqi Army," reads McVeigh's Bronze Star certificate. "Sgt. McVeigh's flawless devotion to duty truly exemplifies the finest traditions of the military service and reflects great credit upon him, the 1st Infantry Division (Mechanized), and the United States Army."
McCain won a number of medals as well but his Silver Star was not gained through combat but through getting tortured.
https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/23680
TheEmpress ago
Whatever Songbird did in the military was nullified by his dirt in the Senate. I celebrated the night I heard he died.
As far as McVeigh goes, after reading about Ruby Ridge, I can see why he felt as he did.
B3bomber ago
McVeigh was a test subject in the MKULTRA program. I wonder why this is not mentioned/glossed over/forgotten.
TheEmpress ago
I'm not aware of MKULTRA existing beyond the early 70s.
B3bomber ago
You really think they stopped doing that? I have a bridge to sell you.
TheEmpress ago
That's not evidence of anything.
1Iron_Curtain ago
I'd say when things are taken into consideration McVeigh was more Iron than McCain. I think one has to be careful about critiquing McCain for supplying information while being tortured, because its not as easy to remain silent, especially when you have someone like the Vietnamese torturing you.
That said, when you are the military you need to consider the Espirtu De Corps and the Iron Will of the Commander. McCain was violating this and should have been stood up for the military virtue of courage in this case. I sort of see McCain as the pampered son of a Navy Admiral.
Sort of like one of those liberal Trust Fund kids who sits around and plays video games all day. I guess McCain tried to make it up by torturing those were abided by the rules of war and were practitioners of the military virtue of courage(Assad fighting the Muslim Brotherhood and an assortment of Wahhabists).
I guess what is worse, blowing up the Murray Building in Oklahoma City or aiding in the new destruction of an important industrial and commercial city in the Middle-East. Personally, I don't think you can say there is a lesser of two evils(innocent people killed in both cases). McCain typifies the problem with conservatives in North America(too globalist, too interventionist, and not America-first).
McVeigh typifies the problem with the far-right at times. They misplace their radicalism, too conspiratorial, and too prone to seeing violence as the solution. Of course, when taken into full account McVeigh was not exactly radical, unlike McCain, who was really good at cloaking it, and was all about using the system and trying to keep some facade of the status quo to splinter the system and to blow us up internally and over-expand our sphere of power. I guess in his mind McCain thought he was a good patriot.
McVeigh thought he was going after the feds and at that time under Clinton the feds had some issues, and McVeigh believed essentially that groups like the FBI were going after anyone they considered "extremist"(look at Waco) and that second amendment rights need to be invoked to protect oneself from unfair government intrusion.
I think that is a fine stance, but using violence to make a point that having access to and the right to possess and utilize the means to protect oneself from unfair infringement is kind of a contradiction in its very nature. McVeigh had better ideas than McCain of course, but at the end of the day the unfortunate case is that McCain will be seen as a war hero not because of what he did in war but rather what he did afterwards. Its also a media thing. The media was using McVeigh as a reason to frame the far-right as bad when McVeigh really had nothing to do with the traditional far-right in any sense.
The media of course won't shine light on McCain's crimes, because he was being a patriot, but whenever they want to lambast a certain idea or movement they will always find a Red Herring to go after.
That is McVeigh in a wrap for me. McVeigh "represents" middle America in large part because of his views, which I am surprised the left has not tried to exploit more so.
I think they know because firstly McVeigh had good points/ideas, he was tough as steel(talking about being a war hero), and he does not exactly represent the far-right at all(everyone gets that).
KosherHiveKicker ago
McVeigh no contest.
McVeigh took on America's enemy's both foreign and domestic.
McCain's domestic impact upon America, and Americans has been far more destructive then anything attributed to McVeigh.
Joe_McCarthy ago
I'm not keen on the Oklahoma City bombing. Blowing up a daycare center the way he did was undesirable. That's putting aside any more nuanced views I may have with regards to terror tactics as strategy to acquire desired political ends.
But it's irrelevant anyway. We're not discussing the politics of the two men here but their respective war records.
KosherHiveKicker ago
Did McCain applaud, and support The FBI's intentional, prolonged torture, and murder of American children at the Waco Branch Davidian Compound?
derram ago
https://archive.fo/tzOcJ :
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Joe_McCarthy ago
Fwiw McVeigh was described by Gore Vidal here as a hero of the Gulf War in 2001:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2001/09/mcveigh200109