True, but that doesn't negate the value of such. If one can't afford it, then it's not an option - but it's still something they should consider, assuming they want to keep their attachments to modernity in times of power outages.
Until storage gets cheaper (and smaller), it's probably the best idea. That's potentially going to change, but right now it's true.
I'm very, very interested in seeing where the Tesla PowerWall devices end up. I currently have a large room in the basement devoted exclusively to power storage and control systems. As in, there are racks and racks of batteries - expensive batteries. Even they require venting and they must be maintained.
Being able to line the walls, or fill those racks, with smaller devices that actually store more energy is something I hope to see. I'll gladly eat the additional expense.
I can currently go about 3 days with zero power generation, of any kind, and still maintain normal power consumption. If I shut a few things down, or use bare minimum (for my needs) power, that's extended to about 7 days.
As the turbines brake when the wind gets too rough and we get storms that sometimes last for days without the sun, I'd like to extend that.
It's not uncommon for the mains power to go down for a few days - sometimes longer.
I did not know this when I moved here!
My first year here, I had one outage that was 13 days and 14 nights without power! (That was when I was still in the other house, before this one was built.)
Ideally, I'd like to get to the point where I can go a full 7 days with zero power generation of any kind AND be able to use my electrical devices as I'd normally use them. Just my studio sucks down a lot of energy, and I'd like to be able to still fully use that - for those full 7 days. I'd like to be able to completely disable the system and know, beyond reasonable doubt, that I can still use my studio, my furnace, my computers, etc...
But, seven days worth of batteries takes up a huge space and is ungodly expensive. I use a solar energy dude from down in Starks (Mainely Solar, if you're curious.) He comes by and takes care of everything - including the turbines.
It has only been a couple of years that I've generated more power than I consume.
Unfortunately, it's not all stored and it's not all generated at ideal times. While I generate more than I use, it just gets pushed into the grid.
CMP doesn't pay for the power. They only give me credits, at wholesale rates, for the power that I push into the grid. I can sell those credits for cash, if I want. So far, I've just donated them to the local school system.
Which is probably more information than you needed/wanted. But, damn it, I'm gonna tell you ALL the information! All of it!
Solar and wind are not always adequate to provide full energy for the residence. As time passes, they're not able to replenish the energy taken from battery storage.
I have a full-house generator, complete with a fully licensed and inspected in-ground diesel tank, for the same reasons I have solar and wind. I like my creature comforts and energy delivery is pretty unreliable where I live. I have mains power, but it's about as reliable as a crack head.
Yes. I mind. Probably not for the reasons you'd expect.
It's a lot to type and what I have here is probably not applicable to you. More importantly, I hired a professional because this isn't my domain and I don't want to give you bad information.
Mine are own towers, each is about 45 or 50' tall. They're up almost at the top of the mountain. The automatically brake when winds exceed 29 and 34 MPH. They are self adjusting and have an emergency/repair mode that turns their blades so that it isn't much impacted by the wind. It also applies a brake.
They feed the batteries, as does the solar. There's a fancy tablet on the wall and it let's me change a few things or monitor a few things. I don't touch it. I can also check the output and history with a browser, as it's connected to a separate network.
I don't play with it. I'm unable to opine on the quality. It works.
When the batteries get low, the generator turns itself on. That happens seldom, but does happen. It also turns itself on to maintain itself. It does this all automatically.
There's a few red lights that tell me when I'm pushing power to the grid. That is supposed to stop when there's a power outage, so that I'm not putting energy into the grid. However, there's an actual physical cutoff switch outside and I'm to disable that, or the power company can, if there's an outage. Before they work on the lines, they come make sure I'm nt pushing energy into the grid and going to kill them.
Which is me saying that you should hire a professional and that I'm not qualified to offer you any assistance, nor will I accept any liability for doing so.
In the end, my only advice is hire a professional. There be amps in them there lines. There's also a variety of regulations and they appear to mostly make sense.
I've seen people get pissed about there being regulations that require me to have a switch outside my building and that grants the power company legal authority to come turn that switch off, any damned time they want.
Which is amusing - 'cause if they don't turn that switch off them I'm possibly putting energy into the line and going to kill one of their workers. No, no they can't "just trust me" and not check the switch. They can even lock it out - and do. They turn it off and put a big ol' lock through it. No, I don't have a key. I'm not allowed a key. I shouldn't be allowed a key.
So, yeah... Hire a professional, lest you kill yourself or someone else.
2500 is a helluva lot cheaper than whatever you will have to pay to go off grid! It’s not even remotely close.
Thanks, @thebuddha, for bringing my attention here. I had just gotten bored talking to that lunatic anyway. Although I’m also about to go afk for a bit.
LOL Yeah, I'm also not sure why people think it is very affordable or will even break even.
Nope. For my whole house to get full energy supplies from my own sources was obscenely expensive. I'm never even going to come close to breaking even. Because I use so much energy, my batteries alone occupy a giant room in my basement and that room alone cost more than a car, with the controls added. By the time the solar panels come close to breaking even, it'll be time to replace them. Never mind the cost of the fancy mounting that tracks the sun and let's me flip the panels for winter storms.
The masts the turbines are on? Yeah, those were a small fortune, by the time installation was added. A guy comes and maintains this stuff, twice a year. They go up there with a fancy cherry picker that is on a fancy ATV, once a year.
Can you do solar and wind on the cheap? Sure... However, I kinda like my modern conveniences. Their solar panel from Harbor Freight isn't even going to power my stand mixer. Adding a turbine from the same source might enable me to run a decent guitar amp. I go through a whole lot of energy. I don't have wind and solar because it's cheap, I have it because the grid is woefully unreliable. It's a small fortune to get proper equipment and adequate energy for my needs.
I can do off-griding solar for $2100. Hawaii electricity is so expensive that I have become a master of not using it. I wanted some wind though for extra generation for nighttime since we have trades here.
I’m guessing you don’t do much water heating or cooking or active cooling with your electricity. If you can swing it, then by all means, but I can’t comprehend having a safe system with storage set up for 2100!
Air conditioner is unaffordable for the average pineapple nigger family. If get too hot at home, we go beach or go wander around Walmart (I'm serious, brah). Water heater has a switch and is only on a few hours a day. Cooking is gas.
Because latitude we get very nice peak generation hours and there is less need for a large amount of panels. Most people here have problems with too much generation.
Local solar installers have a popular $900 homestead starter kit. Solar is just waaay cheap to get into here.
Very cool! If that’s how you’re handling things, then I can see how you could make it happen, so long as you don’t always ‘need’ power and keep consumption pretty low.
I will look into this a bit more. How many KWh does that $900 kit get you?
People are telling me they are meeting monthly need of 2-3kwH with the starter kit. It's meant to give you enough power to charge phones, tools and string a few lights.
For comparison, our 1200 sq ft home uses 11-13kwh per month and this is typical for my neighborhood. I think it would be significantly lower if I had a direct current refrigerator.
The current doesn’t matter. I presume you mean the kind of fridge that I would typically expect to find in a motorhome (which can also run off propane).
r. I presume you mean the kind of fridge that I would typically expect to find in a motorhome (which can also run off propane).
Yes. For most people here, their fridge is their most power hungry appliance. These types of fridges play very nice with off grid solar and though they cost a lot more to ship out here, they allow modest solar setups to not need a night time generator for the fridge.
Propane is not particularly expensive. Main problem is most properties aren't suitable for large above ground tanks so people stuck with regular filling of small portable tanks.
My property is on an incline though so I could maybe do some watermills with my 200 inches of rain a year.
Yah, I recommend a professional and not Voat. I'd seriously not even ask anyone on Voat for opinions or advice, except maybe @HeyGeorge and he's probably going to decline helping because of things like wanting to keep his professional license and not get sued.
TheBuddha ago
Yes.
You're welcome.
WORF_MOTORBOATS_TROI ago
Yeah well not everybody is flush with blueberry cash
TheBuddha ago
True, but that doesn't negate the value of such. If one can't afford it, then it's not an option - but it's still something they should consider, assuming they want to keep their attachments to modernity in times of power outages.
Until storage gets cheaper (and smaller), it's probably the best idea. That's potentially going to change, but right now it's true.
I'm very, very interested in seeing where the Tesla PowerWall devices end up. I currently have a large room in the basement devoted exclusively to power storage and control systems. As in, there are racks and racks of batteries - expensive batteries. Even they require venting and they must be maintained.
Being able to line the walls, or fill those racks, with smaller devices that actually store more energy is something I hope to see. I'll gladly eat the additional expense.
I can currently go about 3 days with zero power generation, of any kind, and still maintain normal power consumption. If I shut a few things down, or use bare minimum (for my needs) power, that's extended to about 7 days.
As the turbines brake when the wind gets too rough and we get storms that sometimes last for days without the sun, I'd like to extend that.
It's not uncommon for the mains power to go down for a few days - sometimes longer.
I did not know this when I moved here!
My first year here, I had one outage that was 13 days and 14 nights without power! (That was when I was still in the other house, before this one was built.)
Ideally, I'd like to get to the point where I can go a full 7 days with zero power generation of any kind AND be able to use my electrical devices as I'd normally use them. Just my studio sucks down a lot of energy, and I'd like to be able to still fully use that - for those full 7 days. I'd like to be able to completely disable the system and know, beyond reasonable doubt, that I can still use my studio, my furnace, my computers, etc...
But, seven days worth of batteries takes up a huge space and is ungodly expensive. I use a solar energy dude from down in Starks (Mainely Solar, if you're curious.) He comes by and takes care of everything - including the turbines.
It has only been a couple of years that I've generated more power than I consume.
Unfortunately, it's not all stored and it's not all generated at ideal times. While I generate more than I use, it just gets pushed into the grid.
CMP doesn't pay for the power. They only give me credits, at wholesale rates, for the power that I push into the grid. I can sell those credits for cash, if I want. So far, I've just donated them to the local school system.
Which is probably more information than you needed/wanted. But, damn it, I'm gonna tell you ALL the information! All of it!
Good morning!
Atticus_Lowry ago
Why tho?
TheBuddha ago
Solar and wind are not always adequate to provide full energy for the residence. As time passes, they're not able to replenish the energy taken from battery storage.
I have a full-house generator, complete with a fully licensed and inspected in-ground diesel tank, for the same reasons I have solar and wind. I like my creature comforts and energy delivery is pretty unreliable where I live. I have mains power, but it's about as reliable as a crack head.
Le_Squish ago
I want to add wind. Do you mind describing your wind set up?
TheBuddha ago
Yes. I mind. Probably not for the reasons you'd expect.
It's a lot to type and what I have here is probably not applicable to you. More importantly, I hired a professional because this isn't my domain and I don't want to give you bad information.
Mine are own towers, each is about 45 or 50' tall. They're up almost at the top of the mountain. The automatically brake when winds exceed 29 and 34 MPH. They are self adjusting and have an emergency/repair mode that turns their blades so that it isn't much impacted by the wind. It also applies a brake.
They feed the batteries, as does the solar. There's a fancy tablet on the wall and it let's me change a few things or monitor a few things. I don't touch it. I can also check the output and history with a browser, as it's connected to a separate network.
I don't play with it. I'm unable to opine on the quality. It works.
When the batteries get low, the generator turns itself on. That happens seldom, but does happen. It also turns itself on to maintain itself. It does this all automatically.
There's a few red lights that tell me when I'm pushing power to the grid. That is supposed to stop when there's a power outage, so that I'm not putting energy into the grid. However, there's an actual physical cutoff switch outside and I'm to disable that, or the power company can, if there's an outage. Before they work on the lines, they come make sure I'm nt pushing energy into the grid and going to kill them.
Which is me saying that you should hire a professional and that I'm not qualified to offer you any assistance, nor will I accept any liability for doing so.
Le_Squish ago
Thank you for trying. What you have told me is still useful.
TheBuddha ago
In the end, my only advice is hire a professional. There be amps in them there lines. There's also a variety of regulations and they appear to mostly make sense.
I've seen people get pissed about there being regulations that require me to have a switch outside my building and that grants the power company legal authority to come turn that switch off, any damned time they want.
Which is amusing - 'cause if they don't turn that switch off them I'm possibly putting energy into the line and going to kill one of their workers. No, no they can't "just trust me" and not check the switch. They can even lock it out - and do. They turn it off and put a big ol' lock through it. No, I don't have a key. I'm not allowed a key. I shouldn't be allowed a key.
So, yeah... Hire a professional, lest you kill yourself or someone else.
Le_Squish ago
I'm going off grind since it will cost $2500 to run a connection to my property.
heygeorge ago
2500 is a helluva lot cheaper than whatever you will have to pay to go off grid! It’s not even remotely close.
Thanks, @thebuddha, for bringing my attention here. I had just gotten bored talking to that lunatic anyway. Although I’m also about to go afk for a bit.
TheBuddha ago
LOL Yeah, I'm also not sure why people think it is very affordable or will even break even.
Nope. For my whole house to get full energy supplies from my own sources was obscenely expensive. I'm never even going to come close to breaking even. Because I use so much energy, my batteries alone occupy a giant room in my basement and that room alone cost more than a car, with the controls added. By the time the solar panels come close to breaking even, it'll be time to replace them. Never mind the cost of the fancy mounting that tracks the sun and let's me flip the panels for winter storms.
The masts the turbines are on? Yeah, those were a small fortune, by the time installation was added. A guy comes and maintains this stuff, twice a year. They go up there with a fancy cherry picker that is on a fancy ATV, once a year.
Can you do solar and wind on the cheap? Sure... However, I kinda like my modern conveniences. Their solar panel from Harbor Freight isn't even going to power my stand mixer. Adding a turbine from the same source might enable me to run a decent guitar amp. I go through a whole lot of energy. I don't have wind and solar because it's cheap, I have it because the grid is woefully unreliable. It's a small fortune to get proper equipment and adequate energy for my needs.
Le_Squish ago
I can do off-griding solar for $2100. Hawaii electricity is so expensive that I have become a master of not using it. I wanted some wind though for extra generation for nighttime since we have trades here.
heygeorge ago
I’m guessing you don’t do much water heating or cooking or active cooling with your electricity. If you can swing it, then by all means, but I can’t comprehend having a safe system with storage set up for 2100!
Le_Squish ago
Air conditioner is unaffordable for the average pineapple nigger family. If get too hot at home, we go beach or go wander around Walmart (I'm serious, brah). Water heater has a switch and is only on a few hours a day. Cooking is gas.
Because latitude we get very nice peak generation hours and there is less need for a large amount of panels. Most people here have problems with too much generation.
Local solar installers have a popular $900 homestead starter kit. Solar is just waaay cheap to get into here.
heygeorge ago
Very cool! If that’s how you’re handling things, then I can see how you could make it happen, so long as you don’t always ‘need’ power and keep consumption pretty low.
I will look into this a bit more. How many KWh does that $900 kit get you?
Le_Squish ago
People are telling me they are meeting monthly need of 2-3kwH with the starter kit. It's meant to give you enough power to charge phones, tools and string a few lights.
For comparison, our 1200 sq ft home uses 11-13kwh per month and this is typical for my neighborhood. I think it would be significantly lower if I had a direct current refrigerator.
heygeorge ago
The current doesn’t matter. I presume you mean the kind of fridge that I would typically expect to find in a motorhome (which can also run off propane).
Is propane also expensive there?
Le_Squish ago
Yes. For most people here, their fridge is their most power hungry appliance. These types of fridges play very nice with off grid solar and though they cost a lot more to ship out here, they allow modest solar setups to not need a night time generator for the fridge.
Propane is not particularly expensive. Main problem is most properties aren't suitable for large above ground tanks so people stuck with regular filling of small portable tanks.
My property is on an incline though so I could maybe do some watermills with my 200 inches of rain a year.
TheBuddha ago
Yah, I recommend a professional and not Voat. I'd seriously not even ask anyone on Voat for opinions or advice, except maybe @HeyGeorge and he's probably going to decline helping because of things like wanting to keep his professional license and not get sued.
WORF_MOTORBOATS_TROI ago
Tl;dr - no.
Atticus_Lowry ago
Why tho?
WORF_MOTORBOATS_TROI ago
Purchase price + maintenance >>>>Usefulness