Disproportionate retribution is when someone is attacked, and in response does a counter-attack that is considered "justice" or at least "justified". This is a cultural norm that we hold in America, and is held in many other countries.
Many cultures have a tradition of justice (being penalized for wronging others), but in America and many other countries like Israel there is a narrative that once someone is attacked, all gloves are off and they are free to do whatever they like in response to the attack. This is not justice. For example, one rocket from Gaza will land in an empty Israeli field and explode, and then this is used for justification for a counter-attack that flattens thousands of buildings and kills hundreds of Palestinians. If they are questioned, the explanation is always "Do you not want Israel to defend itself?" but it is clear this is not defense. This is disproportionate retribution. And Americans generally see this as OK.
If you think about it, these Yale SJW people with the Halloween costumes are using the exact same tactic, although they might not realize it. They frame the argument in a way such that they are being "attacked" (by the administrators allowing students to express themselves freely via their costumes) and are therefore justified in any counter-attack. So you see them yelling and screaming in response to simple questions, but it's because they're emotionally reacting and they are certain they are right. They are in a state of righteous indignation, which they feel is justified. There's no mental luxury so great as righteous fury. When you're in a state of righteous anger, there's no need to try anymore. You can just let it all fly, which is what these SJW people want to do most. They want to tell people off and speak their mind without filter or awareness of social decorum, based on the assumption (which they see as fact) that they are siding with the downtrodden. It's like White Knighting, in a way.
Even my cat uses this strategy. It doesn't take a genius to pull it off, just someone who pays attention to incentives. She doesn't like the other cats and loves to see them get in trouble. So sometimes she will play the victim and ham it up like she got attacked really bad even if it was just a tiny scrach, which leads to me getting mad at the other cats. She knows this, and she uses it like a tool. It's annoying as shit and now that I'm wise to it I've changed the incentives so that behavior isn't easy and is instead difficult and unrewarding. Which is exactly what needs to happen in American culture. It needs to be socially difficult to be a jerk, and easy to be nice. Like that video of the horse pinning its ears. Instead it's mostly the opposite in mainstream society. The people who are jerks make it all over the news, and the nice people are generally ignored because they're not attention-grabbing enough. We are all fascinated with watching train-wrecks of people spout off about stuff, and we need to stop being fascinated with it because it's merely empowering the train-wrecks and giving them an audience. Like reality shows. Like corporate news.
Everyone is doing it. It's a power game, of "who can be the biggest victim and is therefore entitled to the biggest slice of the pie" which only arises because we have such a focus as a culture on trying to help out victims, and not enough on just empowering average people. Victimhood dominates our news, justice system, political process, and military actions. Like how 9/11 justified the invasion of a country that ended up killing around a million people, even though it had nothing to do with it. We were victims and we lashed out, and the public at large supports this kind of thinking on a small scale and a large scale.
Helping out victims is of course a good thing, please don't get me wrong. Downtrodden people need help. Period. The problem arises however when the most obvious and accessible route to power in our society comes through playing the victim as thoroughly as possible. This drives people to become professional victims, as a means to sustain themselves. This is where the problem arises, because then their entire identity, self-worth, and maybe even income, is tied to this idea that they're a victim. If the stop seeing themselves as a victim, they no longer enjoy the social and financial benefits of being able to claim victimhood status. This keeps people from bettering their situation and wallowing and over-focusing on the areas in which they are victims, which creates bizarre people who group together to create bizarre social groups, which creates these bizarre situations we've been seeing in the news lately.
Everyone gets offended because our society disproportionately rewards people who get offended. And we don't reward people who try to better themselves enough, instead we just take away the extra support as they start succeeding which creates an headwind against climbing out of the victim status.
Think of all the angry customers and complaint letters that have changed things over the years. If those people were ignored instead of catered to, we might have a chance at fixing our society. Basically everyone needs to stop humoring idiots because it's profitable, and because it's socially easy. Stop catering to the lowest common denominator, the offended idiot. If victimhood gives you power and money, then everyone will cater to victimhood and we have a society with a pecking order based on who can demonstrate themselves to be the biggest victim.
This is totally broken. The only way to fix it is to change the incentives, which means calling out people on their BS! The fear of doing this is exactly why it continues to grow. Crocodile tears run the world. Everyone is terrified to say the emperor has no clothes because of how much power these people have, and how over-sensitive they are, and how much society at large sides with these victims out of misguided well intentions.
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entropyosaurus ago
i don't think this is right
magnora ago
You don't think the logic is right, or you don't think this is how modern culture operates?
entropyosaurus ago
I just can't think of an example of someone getting into a powerful position (as measured by wealth or the ability to make significant decisions and delegate orders) through playing a victim. Can you? I think power in US culture is more precisely obtained through greed and selfishness.
magnora ago
Oh yes, there are many examples. Ellen Pao who ran reddit became wealthy and famous through lawsuits of victimhood.
You must understand, I'm not saying being a victim is a route to the top, I am saying being a victim is a route to go from lower class to middle/upper class. So many lawsuits are won by a minority group or woman demonstrating how they were victimized because of their minority status. We even have a whole category of crimes, called hate crimes, that increase penalties for people who attack people who can demonstrate their victimhood belongs to a certain category. Things like child custody, divorce settlements, and other court cases are determined by proper demonstration of victimhood.
No one is going to become the next Bill Gates by playing victim, but even Bill Gates uses this tactic. He's solicited billions by running this Gates Foundation organization which focuses entirely on the idea of helping victims (from poor countries, usually). This is how they gain power, by claiming they're doing something humanitarian. Same reason the US government invades all these middle eastern countries, they say its for "humanitarian reasons" even though it's obviously and aggressive invasion. The Susan G Komen cancer foundation keeps 95% of the money that gets donated to them, they're using the exact same tactic. Empowering themselves by pretending to help victims, or be victims. This is the victim support culture.
entropyosaurus ago
I think this speaks more to Pao's rise to power than her 2012 discrimination lawsuit:
As to the philanthropy of the Bill Gates of the world, I don't think they're playing up victimhood so much as trying to mitigate the negative images of their obvious greed. Pretending to help victims to improve one's own image is not the same as being a victim, or playing the victim. That's "compassion."
Bill Gates was a billionaire many times over and had lots of power before he started his foundation.
As to the victim lawsuits question, we live in a very litigious society, and yes that's a way to attempt to milk or game the system. But sometimes lawsuits are justified. I wouldn't say "so many" lawsuits by minorities are won, and that so many of them can just retire because of the settlements or judgments in their favor. Are courts and laws too much a part of US society and culture? Perhaps/probably.
And one last point. Creating the category of hate crimes isn't about enabling victims but trying to end racism in our society. Victims of hate crimes don't personally benefit from the criminal prosecution, it's just that the perpetrators are punished more because society deems racism to be more dangerous than, say, drunken brawls.
magnora ago
Gates gets donations now and can launder money through the foundation. He makes tons in speaking fees. This is not humanitarian, he's just using that as a reason to gain more power. If he helps some people in the process, great. But he's also getting his fingers in a lot of pies in the process.
People get the categorization of "hate crime" if they're able to convince the jury that is possible. This requires playing up victimhood.
You make good points, but you're talking with too broad a brush to ignore the potential of this existing
entropyosaurus ago
Prosecutor's make the decision to classify something as a hate crime based on evidence of intent. Then they have to prove that to the jury. There's no 'playing up victimhood' because, by definition, there was a victim of the crime.
And rich people who donate to the Gates Foundation are not giving him more power but trying to latch on to the positive image that the foundation creates. Bill Gates doesn't need any more money to further his power or to live bigger. And I don't know anything about the money laundering claims, but I wouldn't put it past em.
magnora ago
If they choose to go for a hate crime charge, they have to play up the hatecrime aspect of it in order to ensure they get the jury to vote the right way.
Bill gates wanted to get in to things like vaccines and population control, and the foundation gives him a good way to do that where he might not be able to otherwise.
entropyosaurus ago
Well ya, they'd have to play up the intent if it exists, like if the perpetrator kept a journal about how much he hates black people, then beat up some random black person for no other reason.
It's possible, I don't know about his beliefs prior to making billions. But from what I understand, he was just a cut-throat nerdy wannabe computer guy who saw an opportunity to monopolize an OS system he didn't write and grabbed it.