Really? I thought that was the whole idea of a nation-state with an official religion. (And why the conditions in the above video are allowed to happen.)
From the same article: "Israel is defined in several of its laws as a "Jewish and democratic state". However, the term "Jewish" is a polyseme that can describe the Jewish people as both an ethnic or a religious group. The debate about the meaning of the term "Jewish" and its legal and social applications is one of the most profound issues with which Israeli society deals."
If you look up Israel's official religion, you'll find that it legally doesn't have one.
It's really fucked up. Because in one hand, there's freedom of and from religion, there are laws in place that will not allow religion to censor media, laws that forbid discrimination... But at the same time, there are laws that forbid raising pigs on Israeli land, and laws that limit a store's activity on the sabbath (or risk a fine).
Very hot issue, like gay rights used to be in the states.
Well I really hope things go in favor of separation. Love or hate Israel, they're going to be they key to stability in the region for many more years to come and I would love to see them become more of the nation we need them to be.
As an atheist, I find it insulting that I can't get married in my own country. Citizen enough to serve, pay taxes, vote.. But apparently not enough to get married. This is because there isn't a complete separation of church (and without an official religion, doesn't really matter what church) and state. You have to belong to one of the few religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druzeism and the Bahá'í Faith) Israel recognizes to get married. Which is total BS.
Israeli internet defense or whatever those groups are called don't help either. If a non Israeli like me were to criticize this policy I'd just get labeled anti-Israel and my comments would be buried. IMO Israel doesn't have time to wait for civil rights to progress naturally like in other countries, your government needs the world spotlight on it and some more pressure asap (while ignoring border politics if that's even possible).
That said, the only helpful thing I can think of for you is to find the most moderate religious leader you can to get married. One of my old pastors told me he straight up didn't believe in God or Jesus and that the metaphors in the scriptures were why he was a religious leader. Maybe there's a branch of one of the five who are moderate enough? (Still really shitty that you have to resort to this 'tho.)
I'd rather not, I would assume there's some punishment involved for fraud or whatever, and maybe it's probably hard to convert to Christianity in Israel (haven't really looked into that). What most people do is travel abroad, get married there and come back with a marriage certificate. The state recognizes previous marriages, so that's what everyone is doing right now.
As for being called anti-Israel, don't worry about it. I get called an Israeli shill, a member of the JIDF, and pretty much anything else (though, surprisingly not so much on Voat!). I just stopped paying attention. If you make enough good points and back them with evidence, I don't see a reason why most people would downvote you. Evidence being not your own interpretation, but either a rephrasing or (preferably) a direct quote from a reliable source. I try to be critical of everything, regardless of my personal beliefs. If I find a news story that confirms what I believe, I would still check it out to make sure it's not biased, as should everyone.
Speaking as an insider, I think there's enough pressure already. The parliament (the body of government that makes the rules) is very divided at 61% to 59%, this limits a lot of rules from being passed (left or right oriented). The government is almost at a halt right now. Some are expecting new elections next year or so. It's pretty clear from these numbers that there is a huge percentage of Israelis who want change and are not happy with the previous and current government (59%), hopefully next election the opposition would get enough votes to get elected.
I really really hope they do! Not to brag too much, but religious separation is pretty excellent. My brother had an atheist wedding last week and there was a Game of Thrones reference in their vows :)
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wootnessmonsters ago
Shame that the citizen of Israel don't realize what they have become.
sp00kygh0st ago
The Jewish religion doesn't care about gentiles
Calorie-Kin ago
You're putting Jews and Israelis in the same category. Not all Jews are Israelis, and not all Israelis are Jews.
Reddiggoat ago
Really? I thought that was the whole idea of a nation-state with an official religion. (And why the conditions in the above video are allowed to happen.)
Calorie-Kin ago
But Israel doesn't have an official religion. It has a majority religion, but anyone's free to believe what they want.
When I was in uni, I lived with two Arabs and a Russian. One was a Muslim, one was a Christian, and the other was an atheist (I think?).
Reddiggoat ago
Israel is the only modern state officially embracing Judaism as its official religion, yet it has a republican form of government. It also "recognizes" 4 others but it seems like Judaism is the official state religion. I have nothing against Judaism, but tying any faith to a government allows for atrocities like this to happen in god's name.
Calorie-Kin ago
It's actually a hot issue in Israel right now.
From the same article: "Israel is defined in several of its laws as a "Jewish and democratic state". However, the term "Jewish" is a polyseme that can describe the Jewish people as both an ethnic or a religious group. The debate about the meaning of the term "Jewish" and its legal and social applications is one of the most profound issues with which Israeli society deals."
If you look up Israel's official religion, you'll find that it legally doesn't have one.
It's really fucked up. Because in one hand, there's freedom of and from religion, there are laws in place that will not allow religion to censor media, laws that forbid discrimination... But at the same time, there are laws that forbid raising pigs on Israeli land, and laws that limit a store's activity on the sabbath (or risk a fine).
Very hot issue, like gay rights used to be in the states.
Reddiggoat ago
Well I really hope things go in favor of separation. Love or hate Israel, they're going to be they key to stability in the region for many more years to come and I would love to see them become more of the nation we need them to be.
Calorie-Kin ago
Amen.
As an atheist, I find it insulting that I can't get married in my own country. Citizen enough to serve, pay taxes, vote.. But apparently not enough to get married. This is because there isn't a complete separation of church (and without an official religion, doesn't really matter what church) and state. You have to belong to one of the few religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druzeism and the Bahá'í Faith) Israel recognizes to get married. Which is total BS.
Reddiggoat ago
Israeli internet defense or whatever those groups are called don't help either. If a non Israeli like me were to criticize this policy I'd just get labeled anti-Israel and my comments would be buried. IMO Israel doesn't have time to wait for civil rights to progress naturally like in other countries, your government needs the world spotlight on it and some more pressure asap (while ignoring border politics if that's even possible).
That said, the only helpful thing I can think of for you is to find the most moderate religious leader you can to get married. One of my old pastors told me he straight up didn't believe in God or Jesus and that the metaphors in the scriptures were why he was a religious leader. Maybe there's a branch of one of the five who are moderate enough? (Still really shitty that you have to resort to this 'tho.)
Calorie-Kin ago
I'd rather not, I would assume there's some punishment involved for fraud or whatever, and maybe it's probably hard to convert to Christianity in Israel (haven't really looked into that). What most people do is travel abroad, get married there and come back with a marriage certificate. The state recognizes previous marriages, so that's what everyone is doing right now.
As for being called anti-Israel, don't worry about it. I get called an Israeli shill, a member of the JIDF, and pretty much anything else (though, surprisingly not so much on Voat!). I just stopped paying attention. If you make enough good points and back them with evidence, I don't see a reason why most people would downvote you. Evidence being not your own interpretation, but either a rephrasing or (preferably) a direct quote from a reliable source. I try to be critical of everything, regardless of my personal beliefs. If I find a news story that confirms what I believe, I would still check it out to make sure it's not biased, as should everyone.
Speaking as an insider, I think there's enough pressure already. The parliament (the body of government that makes the rules) is very divided at 61% to 59%, this limits a lot of rules from being passed (left or right oriented). The government is almost at a halt right now. Some are expecting new elections next year or so. It's pretty clear from these numbers that there is a huge percentage of Israelis who want change and are not happy with the previous and current government (59%), hopefully next election the opposition would get enough votes to get elected.
Reddiggoat ago
I really really hope they do! Not to brag too much, but religious separation is pretty excellent. My brother had an atheist wedding last week and there was a Game of Thrones reference in their vows :)