I didn't know which subvoat to post this in. Even though you guys all believe the moon landings. Israel has launched their moon faring rover and the first thing it will do after it arrives on the moon in two months is plant an Israeli flag there. If it's not true that America landed man on the moon, the only flag up there will be Israel.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/february/the-israeli-flag-will-soon-fly-on-the-moon-israel-to-send-first-spacecraft-to-the-moon
All telemetry data recordings from all Apollo missions leaving low Earth orbit Apollo 8-17 are erased. That means there is no contemporary evidence we ever went there. There's no data to study. All we have are videos and pictures. The lunar orbiter takes photos so low resolution the landing sites look like pixels.
No telescope is currently powerful enough to photograph any lunar landing site. No rover was left on the moon from any Apollo mission, in fact none of the missions did anything. They brought back rocks, planted seismometers, and installed a thing that reflects lasers despite bouncing lasers off the moon being something they were doing before Apollo.
NASA finished the heat shield they need only two years ago. NASA is still building the rocket that is powerful enough to lift it. It is possible the moon landings were faked. If they were faked then Israel's will be the only flag up there. Because hubris took over the minds of Americans for 50 years, while we sent all of our money abroad.
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Native ago
It's fake, nobody can go to the moon. So don't worry. China didn't go there, Russia can't go there and Israel can't go there.
As for all those 'moon rocks' the majority have been lost and the ones that have been tested turned to either be trees or rocks originating from Earth.
oligarchsalamander ago
I'd suggest rovers and other unmanned delivery systems are real.
Native ago
Here's a question, I'd ask you, let's say before you got married you heard a rumor that your best friend banged your fiance and when you asked him if he did he answered
No worries, you trust him. Then on your wedding night you discover a video of him dogging your wife on her phone and now there is clear evidence he lied to you.
NASA clearly lied about the Moonlandings, the question you have to ask is why would you ever believe anything they have to say ever again? Why is NASA any different than your hypothetical best friend in my example?
oligarchsalamander ago
Because the reason for lying was to prevent a cold war from escalating into a hot war, and the people involved are all retired or dead now. The problem I have with the lie is it hasn't been untold yet and is hurting progress.
Native ago
You hit the nail on the head and that's exactly actually how I got into Flat Earth. If the Moon hoax was a psy-op for the Cold War all the astronoauts should be given medals because they did a great job keeping up moral. Here's the issue and the reason WHY the lie hasn't been revealed.
Russia has always maintained technological supremacy in space. Even to this day they have a monopoly in space. This isn't debatable. So WHY after 60 years have the Russians who have the best space technology in the world not gone to the moon?
As a small aside the American space shuttle and rocket launch is based off Soviet Union technology and rocketry.
The evidence, if you start looking into it, is because Russia simply CAN'T go to the moon. Why?
Operation Highjump is presented as the next curiosity. Why was the mission so secret and why was a massive military sent to Antarctica? Then why is the Antarctica treaty THE ONLY international treaty that regardless of the Cold War or political hostilities is always maintained? Why is nobody allowed to go there without military permission? Why have there never been any flights over the South Pole?
Operation Fishbowl is the next natural rabbit hole. Think logically, how insane is it that the Government of the US was blasting NUCLEAR bombs into our atmosphere, why?
All these little rabbit holes on themselves don't look like that big of a deal, however you add in other things like, why is there no picture of earth from space that isn't CGI? Which could easily shut up the Flat Earthers and you start realizing that perhaps the reason why Russia is silent and never called out America on it's Moon landings is because after WW2 the Governments finally had the technology to properly explore this earth and they realized that
We live in a fishbowl covered by a dome
We can't escape because there's a massive ice wall that surrounds us
And that we in fact live on a flat earth
oligarchsalamander ago
One of my big issues with the moon landing stuff is that sane people making rational plainly obvious points are completely drowned out by the crazies. If you go looking for people talking about the moon landings being fake, you'll come across it, but it's always always always people who provide the worst possible arguments, or believe there's aliens up there. Lets deal with the first issue first shall we? The moon landings being not real.
There are forums that promise to be "scientists, engineers", etc. debunking the moon landing hoax. But nobody on any of those platforms are debumking the questions that I have. They're debunking low hanging fruit. So you try to create an account, you can't. When people are there posting hoax questions, it's always someone asking something basic, easily debunked, outright wrong, and the person either ends up leaving with their tail between their legs or going off into crazy land for all to see. The reason is because all of it is fake.
I have seen it so many times where those perpetrating the hoax try continuously to link the moon hoax with flat earth. Because most people wouldn't accept the flat earth. It's an effort to associate the moon hoax and flat earth. Then they accuse anyone talking sense about the moon landings as being flat earthers and your post is a good example of the type of gaslighting I'm talking about.
Native ago
Yeah, I get you on the conspiracy crazies. Luckily for me I stumbled upon the best and well researched arguments on the Moonlanding hoax [here] I promise you that all your questions will be answered because it's basically a small book and the author takes apart every aspect of the landings, gets into history of the participants and other common sense things. He doesn't even touch the low hanging fruit at all.
It's not an effort, it's a by-product of it. I believed in the moon hoax for years before I even heard about the Flat Earth though I will admit that the Flat Earth is much easier to believe if you realize that the Moon Landings didn't happen. However, just because there is a close link in logic between the flat earthers and the moon hoaxers doesn't make one or the other more wrong. Simply, one group asked more questions and used the moon landing as a spring board.
Another thing that you need to consider is the possibility that these people are literally paid to make Flat Earthers and Moon Landing deniers look insane. I don't know if your account is an alt or you really have only been on this site for 2 months. However, there are legit accounts and subs on here like v/AnonAll that are paid to intentionally post stories day in and day out to disrupt this website. There was even a user on here several months ago that admitted they were paid to come here, gain the trust of the community and then shit post certain opinions and stories.
The Moonlanding Hoax and the Flat Earth aren't anything compared to the real shit that is happening to the world right now. Just look at politics and how many people were assasinated by Hillary Clinton. No, Voat isn't that small to go un-noticed and the crazies aren't usually crazy. And no the Flat Earth movement aren't all shills, the proof of that is Youtube changing their algorythm intentionally and specifically so Flat Earth doesn't show up in the feeds
What else do you need for proof that this stuff is on target? IF we were crazy why try to silence us?
oligarchsalamander ago
I'm not trying to silence you, I'm saying that if we're talking about the moon landings and someone else walks in and says "flat earth" it looks like a diversion. There is no reason for flat earth to be invoked in order to debunk moon landings.
Native ago
And as someone who has leaned towards Flat Earth after debunking the Moon Landing it makes sense to me to invoke the FE because that's where my logical perspective led me. I understand it may not be the best rhetoric for people who are struggling with conspiracies in the beginning, however, once you realize the Moon Landing didn't happen suddenly you 'just get it' and the other theories start making sense one after the other.
oligarchsalamander ago
I just want to re-iterate, first of all, that I don't want you to be silenced. I have a lot of admiration for people willing to put themselves out there with so much blowback in the world for sharing the wrong opinions.
My view of the moon landings being fake does not extend to flat earth. The earth is fully capable of being a sphere while simultaneously the moon landings were fake. The earth being flat would necessitate the moon landings being fake but not the other way around. The technology to land on the moon is coming, well, either it is or it isn't. But if it isn't the excuses they use are going to start getting harder.
A return to the moon would be harder to fake today than it was in 1969. We have better special effects, but there would be no excuse for loss of data as there once was. Even the data returned on astronaut's smart watch not being perfectly faked would expose the fraud.
Native ago
And the reason why the Fe is gaining traction is every year nasa keeps promising to go to the moon and they keep failing even die hard boomers are asking why. Once you start asking these questions you begin to question ISS and the existence of satellites and if those don’t exist the question is why. The ISS and satellites not existing was hard for me to fathom
oligarchsalamander ago
I haven't reached that stage, I'm pretty convinced satellites and the ISS are real, why wouldn't they be we're talking about low earth orbit. NASA has been caught, to my satisfaction, faking a number of things they could otherwise probably actually do and I can't figure out why they're so ok with it.
Native ago
Because space is fake and gay and doesn’t exist.
Decades of programming we were all taught the Heliocentric model, the Big Bang and moon landing. The hypnosis is so strong they don’t have to take much effort.
Case in point this is NASAs official dark side of the moon
Does that even look remotely real to you?
Why is the moon dark when the sun is supposed to be shining on it
There’s just more and more questions to all this once you start looking. And I’m not 100% on Flat Earth what I can tell you is that “dark side” nasa gif is fake and nobody can tell me why their cgi moon is dark when it should be lit up.
I don’t have the answers, it’s clear though that the people who are supposed to know everything, don’t.
oligarchsalamander ago
I'm not really willing to jump on the "solar system doesn't exist" bandwagon, all I'm saying is NASA lies and probably didn't land on the moon 50 years ago. Until more than 6% of the population wraps their head around this that's where I'll focus my energy.
Even if you were correct imagine trying to explain that the solar system doesn't exist to someone who hasn't even gotten over the moon landing yet. That's what ends up happening every time one of you pops up. Because every time someone starts talking about the fake moon landings someone shows up and says either there are aliens on the moon, or the moon doesn't even exist, or whatever, then suddenly nobody is listening anymore.
I'm damn close to being convinced all of you are part of a gaslighting campaign.
Native ago
Lol yeah I thought exactly the same thing. Thanks for the Convo and being open enough to listen