I didn't know which subvoat to post this in. Even though you guys all believe the moon landings. Israel has launched their moon faring rover and the first thing it will do after it arrives on the moon in two months is plant an Israeli flag there. If it's not true that America landed man on the moon, the only flag up there will be Israel.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/february/the-israeli-flag-will-soon-fly-on-the-moon-israel-to-send-first-spacecraft-to-the-moon
All telemetry data recordings from all Apollo missions leaving low Earth orbit Apollo 8-17 are erased. That means there is no contemporary evidence we ever went there. There's no data to study. All we have are videos and pictures. The lunar orbiter takes photos so low resolution the landing sites look like pixels.
No telescope is currently powerful enough to photograph any lunar landing site. No rover was left on the moon from any Apollo mission, in fact none of the missions did anything. They brought back rocks, planted seismometers, and installed a thing that reflects lasers despite bouncing lasers off the moon being something they were doing before Apollo.
NASA finished the heat shield they need only two years ago. NASA is still building the rocket that is powerful enough to lift it. It is possible the moon landings were faked. If they were faked then Israel's will be the only flag up there. Because hubris took over the minds of Americans for 50 years, while we sent all of our money abroad.
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Native ago
It's fake, nobody can go to the moon. So don't worry. China didn't go there, Russia can't go there and Israel can't go there.
As for all those 'moon rocks' the majority have been lost and the ones that have been tested turned to either be trees or rocks originating from Earth.
oligarchsalamander ago
I'd suggest rovers and other unmanned delivery systems are real.
Native ago
Here's a question, I'd ask you, let's say before you got married you heard a rumor that your best friend banged your fiance and when you asked him if he did he answered
No worries, you trust him. Then on your wedding night you discover a video of him dogging your wife on her phone and now there is clear evidence he lied to you.
NASA clearly lied about the Moonlandings, the question you have to ask is why would you ever believe anything they have to say ever again? Why is NASA any different than your hypothetical best friend in my example?
oligarchsalamander ago
Because the reason for lying was to prevent a cold war from escalating into a hot war, and the people involved are all retired or dead now. The problem I have with the lie is it hasn't been untold yet and is hurting progress.
Native ago
You hit the nail on the head and that's exactly actually how I got into Flat Earth. If the Moon hoax was a psy-op for the Cold War all the astronoauts should be given medals because they did a great job keeping up moral. Here's the issue and the reason WHY the lie hasn't been revealed.
Russia has always maintained technological supremacy in space. Even to this day they have a monopoly in space. This isn't debatable. So WHY after 60 years have the Russians who have the best space technology in the world not gone to the moon?
As a small aside the American space shuttle and rocket launch is based off Soviet Union technology and rocketry.
The evidence, if you start looking into it, is because Russia simply CAN'T go to the moon. Why?
Operation Highjump is presented as the next curiosity. Why was the mission so secret and why was a massive military sent to Antarctica? Then why is the Antarctica treaty THE ONLY international treaty that regardless of the Cold War or political hostilities is always maintained? Why is nobody allowed to go there without military permission? Why have there never been any flights over the South Pole?
Operation Fishbowl is the next natural rabbit hole. Think logically, how insane is it that the Government of the US was blasting NUCLEAR bombs into our atmosphere, why?
All these little rabbit holes on themselves don't look like that big of a deal, however you add in other things like, why is there no picture of earth from space that isn't CGI? Which could easily shut up the Flat Earthers and you start realizing that perhaps the reason why Russia is silent and never called out America on it's Moon landings is because after WW2 the Governments finally had the technology to properly explore this earth and they realized that
We live in a fishbowl covered by a dome
We can't escape because there's a massive ice wall that surrounds us
And that we in fact live on a flat earth
oligarchsalamander ago
One of my big issues with the moon landing stuff is that sane people making rational plainly obvious points are completely drowned out by the crazies. If you go looking for people talking about the moon landings being fake, you'll come across it, but it's always always always people who provide the worst possible arguments, or believe there's aliens up there. Lets deal with the first issue first shall we? The moon landings being not real.
There are forums that promise to be "scientists, engineers", etc. debunking the moon landing hoax. But nobody on any of those platforms are debumking the questions that I have. They're debunking low hanging fruit. So you try to create an account, you can't. When people are there posting hoax questions, it's always someone asking something basic, easily debunked, outright wrong, and the person either ends up leaving with their tail between their legs or going off into crazy land for all to see. The reason is because all of it is fake.
I have seen it so many times where those perpetrating the hoax try continuously to link the moon hoax with flat earth. Because most people wouldn't accept the flat earth. It's an effort to associate the moon hoax and flat earth. Then they accuse anyone talking sense about the moon landings as being flat earthers and your post is a good example of the type of gaslighting I'm talking about.
Native ago
Yeah, I get you on the conspiracy crazies. Luckily for me I stumbled upon the best and well researched arguments on the Moonlanding hoax [here] I promise you that all your questions will be answered because it's basically a small book and the author takes apart every aspect of the landings, gets into history of the participants and other common sense things. He doesn't even touch the low hanging fruit at all.
It's not an effort, it's a by-product of it. I believed in the moon hoax for years before I even heard about the Flat Earth though I will admit that the Flat Earth is much easier to believe if you realize that the Moon Landings didn't happen. However, just because there is a close link in logic between the flat earthers and the moon hoaxers doesn't make one or the other more wrong. Simply, one group asked more questions and used the moon landing as a spring board.
Another thing that you need to consider is the possibility that these people are literally paid to make Flat Earthers and Moon Landing deniers look insane. I don't know if your account is an alt or you really have only been on this site for 2 months. However, there are legit accounts and subs on here like v/AnonAll that are paid to intentionally post stories day in and day out to disrupt this website. There was even a user on here several months ago that admitted they were paid to come here, gain the trust of the community and then shit post certain opinions and stories.
The Moonlanding Hoax and the Flat Earth aren't anything compared to the real shit that is happening to the world right now. Just look at politics and how many people were assasinated by Hillary Clinton. No, Voat isn't that small to go un-noticed and the crazies aren't usually crazy. And no the Flat Earth movement aren't all shills, the proof of that is Youtube changing their algorythm intentionally and specifically so Flat Earth doesn't show up in the feeds
What else do you need for proof that this stuff is on target? IF we were crazy why try to silence us?
oligarchsalamander ago
I'm not trying to silence you, I'm saying that if we're talking about the moon landings and someone else walks in and says "flat earth" it looks like a diversion. There is no reason for flat earth to be invoked in order to debunk moon landings.
Native ago
And as someone who has leaned towards Flat Earth after debunking the Moon Landing it makes sense to me to invoke the FE because that's where my logical perspective led me. I understand it may not be the best rhetoric for people who are struggling with conspiracies in the beginning, however, once you realize the Moon Landing didn't happen suddenly you 'just get it' and the other theories start making sense one after the other.
Fateswebb ago
Sorry dude but there are some extremely obvious and glaring issues with the flat Earth scenario. Just like with the moon landings. I find it extremely hard to believe someone with enough logic to see through the moon landing hoax, doesn't have enough logic to see the extremely obvious everyday things that prove the earth isn't flat. Everyday things like the sunrise and sunset easily prove the flat Earth theory wrong. As with much other obvious things that are just remedial logic. It's even more obvious that the Earth is not flat than it is that the moon landings we're a hoax.
Native ago
That’s because you’ve never looked into the FE model. It makes sense and checks out. One big thing that doesn’t make sense on a globe model is why you can see the full moon during the day. You’ve never wondered about that?
Fateswebb ago
Yeah not true dude. Not true. I have and it's clearly not logical and easily proven false.
Native ago
Even mainstream scientists admit that they can’t prove neither the geocentric nor the heliocentric models. Both of the math and science checks out in both models, we just chose to accept the heliocentric one and not the FE one.
Fateswebb ago
Dude whatever. 🙄 That shit has nothing to do with flat Earth. And again that just basic logic.. the world doesn't revolve around the earth duh. The planets revolve around the sun. It's due to gravity man... Either way you're getting off subject. So do explain if the earth is flat why can you observe the sun sinking into the horizon? And rising out of the horizon for sunrise? And why can you not just see it get smaller while it circles around ... Which is what would happen in the flat Earth model.
Native ago
Gravity is fake. And been proven to be fake for a very long time
It's perspective.
Fateswebb ago
🙄 in other words you don't explain it.
Native ago
The laws of perspective explains it perfectly.
Fateswebb ago
Nope because if the earth were flat then we would see the sun circle around heck it probably would not even completely disappear. Then there's the flight patterns completely blows the lid off the theory.
Native ago
You haven't studied this and I don't feel like you grasp the size of the earth in relation to the size of the moon and sun. Like I said the math checks out if the sun is small enough and close enough to the earth to be a 'spotlight' like you mentioned with the photo that I attached. As for Flight patters....
Flying wouldn't even work if the world was spinning 1,000mph Flight West to East would be impossible
Fateswebb ago
Dude I'm trying here but you're a special kinda of dumb..
If the flat Earth model we're true then every single flight we take today, would instead of being straight from one palace to another it would be a curved line not straight. And you say I haven't studied the theory, you haven't studied basic science dude. You're talking complete crap now. We couldn't fly 😂 you have a very minimal concept of scientific principals and so flat Earth has conned you because you're just not smart enough to see through it.
So answer me this when we fly from let's say California to New York (if the earth is flat) why don't we just fly straight there? And since we fly in a curve how does the pilot make it appear that we're not banking or tilted at all? And also why doesn't the pilot just fly straight there? All pilots are in on this conspiracy? Do they mention it to then when they get their pilots license? Oh by the way the Earth's really clat so you have to fly at a curve but don't let the people know?
Fucking impossible dude.
Native ago
Again, you simply haven't looked into this stuff. Flights and shipping lanes are based on the Azimuthal map which has been used for navigation for a thousand plus years. The same map that the UN has as their logo.
Again, people have looked into this and the flight paths on the globe earth are the ones that don't make sense and work perfectly on a flat plane mode
Think about this logically, if the earth was spinning 1,000mph why even fly anywhere from California to NY? All you would have to do is get in a helicopter go straight up in the air a few feet and wait till the globe spins below you and then land back down in the location you wanted. Fact is this doesn't happen, why? The Globalists give us a bunch of bullshit answers, the logic should be easy to understand though if it worked like we are told.
Fateswebb ago
Haha you're nuts man. Oh just jump in the air the earth is spinning and you will come down thousands of miles away. Why fly. 😂🙄
Complete lunacy dude. You love to say I haven't looked into it, that's what all the flat earthers say. Fact is I look into EVERYTHING have done so for decades. And it's absolutely ludicris, illogical, and defies proven science.
But skip all that. What do you think why? Who put the moon. And sun up there? Why do they lie about it? Yeah those thousands of people that would have eventually realized what's going on and are now part of the cover-up, why do they do it? Where does all the energy for the sun come from? What holds it in the sky? Where did the dome come from and what's under it? And why are all the other planets round or are they all just fake? And your claim about the flight patterns makes no sense on a larger scale since planes would literally run out of gas.... And again... You refuse to answer WHY CAN WE NOT SEE THE SUN AS IT SWINGS AROUND TO COME BACK TOMORROW MORNING? ITS FLAT RIGHT? THEN WE WOULS STILL SEE THE DAMN SUN....... FUCKING DUHHHHB
Native ago
God did. And (((they))) lie because God created this world and we can't escape. If people realized this then it would completely change the psychological dynamic of this earth. People would realize, why the hell are we constantly fighting each other?
How did a universe come from nothing? How is the atmosphere held on earth in a vaccuum?
Because it's too far away. Jesus how dense do you have to be. The sun circles the earth which is 25,000 miles at the equator and in the summer in the north pole you CAN see it 24/7 and you CAN see the moon in the daytime. I would know cause I lived there. So I actually have seen the sun at night.
Fateswebb ago
Hahaha native, did you see this? Flat earthers paid 20000 dollars to other flat earthers to setup a scientific experiment to prove the earth is flat.
what happened?
They ended up proving the earth is round instead. https://youtu.be/RMjDAzUFxX0
Fateswebb ago
😂 okay man, some invisible dude in the sky made the earth flat and we're all just too dumb to realize it's not round. 🙄 I thought we were having a serious conversation and you invoke god. Meaning at this point you can say whatever you want and just say because my invisible friend made it that way.. mind control much?
Native ago
It takes more faith to believe in a Big Bang and Evolution than it does to believe in God.
Fateswebb ago
Not true dude. Evolution is proven in so many ways, and you don't have to believe in a big bang, who said you have to claim to know anything at all that isn't proven? How about god is illogical and religion is a form of mind control, however to claim you know it was some big bang is just buying into the opposite type of mind control. Accept that you just don't know, and only claim things that you have ample evidence to prove. There is none for a god, there is however plenty of proof of evolution which is as proven as anything else. Definitely more than religion or flat Earth theories.
Native ago
By Definition you have to have FAITH that something comes from nothing aka the big bang. You have to have FAITH that life was created from nothing aka Evolution. There is zero evidence that could ever happen.
Fateswebb ago
Bullshit. Here we go again with I have to do something. And trying to sling shit at me and make it stick. What if the shit was always here why does there have to be a beginning? Cannot conceive it otherwise? Then invent an invisible Man in the sky and suck his cock all you want. That doesn't mean I have to believe that, OR THE OPPOSITE. What if either I choose to believe it was always there? No bang? No god? Or even more perplexing to your logic, what if I just say, I don't know but what I do know is this religion bullshit is fake. I could give a fuck if there's a big bang. I could care if we're on some dandilion that a Disney elephant talks to. There is just as much proof as that as there is a dude in the sky. But what you're not getting is I don't have to give a shit either way. I can take the evidence I DO HAVE, just go with that, and not give a shit about what I have no evidence to prove. In other words I don't have to have faith at all. I can take the premise that without logical evidence I don't know and I don't fucking care.
It's only when you claim to know that the mind control begins.
That's where religion came from. Back in the day nobody knew shit. Then people started studying the stars, and because the stars actually show patterns and when they looked at the sky and the seasons, they could start to predict things like weather etc. So all the people we're like why are we here. And the astronomers knowing more than the average dude said.... Because of the stars and could predict things. Then they made religion based on the stars. To explain to the low life's why they existed. That doesn't mean I have to buy into that bullshit. Almost all religions are plagurized from others or it would appear that way but the real reason it appears that way is all of them are based on the same stars and the same yearly cycles of the world.
The summer solstice and winter equinox.
Funny the flat earthers have a hard time explaining why these things occur, because you have to abandon what's proven and say it's a dude in the sky.
But the proof is in your own statements.
You say over and over at first I don't know the flat Earth model... It's all explained..
Then when I call bullshit you fall back to the exact same excuse the round earth people do. It was god. It was a great bang.
Why not just say I don't know because that's not something I have any proof of?
Well because that destroys the whole narrative. It makes no sense at all unless god made a snow globe.
So what youre saying then is without any proof you have faith a dude in the sky made a snow globe.
Gotta say that's really not less crazy than most religion but it's based on about as much fact as any.
Native ago
That would be scientifically impossible.
And you don't think that NASA and the Fan Boy Star Wars and Star Trek and all the other space propaganda isn't a religion? Nothing has changed. And it's a false assumption to believe the ancients knew less. They arguably knew more about this world and nature than we do today. If you take a serious dive in every mainstream scientific belief, it's ALL bullshit. ALL OF IT. There is zero proof to any of it, even they admit it.
Fateswebb ago
Lololol now you go back to what's scientifically possible you gotta be kidding me. You're pushing a snow globe theory made by a man in the sky and if I say what if that's not true and provide a more reasonable by far explanation you switch back on the science. Sorry dude your ignoring much more unscientific shot you don't get to turn science back on. And how is it scientifically impossible. Don't have any answer besides faith. And that's just one of my what ifs. So again. Mind control is stong with you.
Now sure all the space propaganda is bullshit, and you could even go as far as saying it's such an obsession it's like religion.
And yeah mainstream science is mostly bullshit and it's easy to prove. But invoking god isn't a way to prove it bullshit. And sure the Sumerians seem to have known a lot. But also the Sumerians basically destroy any proof of religion so usually that is not discussed when trying to prove religion.all of it is mere speculation and if anything proof that religion is a bunch of BS.
Native ago
I'll throw you an Olive Branch here is what George Ellis said, he is the biggest guy in physics and cosmology and worked with Stephen Hawking:
Fateswebb ago
Stephen Hawking's was a fucking hoax dude... An unbrlieveable hoax.bif you believe that dude blinked scientific theories then I believe there is no hope for you comeing back from the abyss.
Native ago
Of course Hawkins is a hoax.
The Flat Earth model is based on earth being the center of the universe and the sun moving around it. That’s why it’s important.
Fateswebb ago
Yep and there was no light at 17 foot but was light at 23. Oops our experiment to prove the earth is flat proved it was round instead. Oh wow...