I think this is my biggest problem here- there’s no room to have discussions of the effects of vaccines at all. All discussions are just shut down. That’s not the scientific method of inquiry. Certainly if the science is sound there’s no problem discussing it?
It's kind of like Creationists and evolution: Sure, you could sit here and explain to them some of the most well founded theories in science. But why? They've convinced themselves there's some huge conspiracy to hide "the truth" from people. "Discussion" isn't so much an exchange of ideas to them as it is a chance to proselytize. Meanwhile, the anti-vax has an extra element to it where if you get enough morons to ignore sound medical practices, the only people to suffer are children, the Ill, and the elderly, since they tend to be part of the population that benefits most from Herd Immunity.
Many anti-vax parents were pro vaccines. I was pro vaccines until I had a child have a serious reaction. What made me vehemently anti-vaccine though was doctors that refused to acknowledge their own scientific data that said she was allergic to the vaccines and push them anyway under threat of CPS.
My daughter was fully vaccinated until she had a reaction tot he flu vaccine. She was 7 or 8 months old. At first, we didn't know what it was that caused an allergic reaction which included a sudden lack of interest in walking or moving her feet until she got her second flu vaccine and suddenly became paralyzed from the waist down completely. We, of course, went to the emergency room department and got a lot of accusatory looks. Several tests later, including drug tests, x-rays, cat scans, and more and they turned up nothing.
We then went to Shriner's where they found that she had Transverse Myelitis. In the course of all the testing, it was noted she was severely allergic to eggs and that was the most likely cause of her having a "flare up". The only eggs she had at that time was in the flu shot...she is also allergic to yeast, chickens, and cats.
In the course of conversations with multiple doctors, I have found they either deny that it is possible even with the data staring at them, tell me it is policy to require vaccinations science be damned, or doubt what I am saying even when the record reflects it.
So one of your children is fine taking all the vaccinations until an undiagnosed egg allergy possibly triggers a paralytic episode. If nothing else, it stands out as a reasonable exacerbator of some separate issue associated with said episode. Your solution to this problem is to deny all of your children vaccinations until you can perform hundreds, possibly thousands of allergy tests.
First, I had several children before her that were fine with vaccinations. However, they had a different father, which makes me believe that is why they were fine.
Second, I don't deny this one child may be an oddball and had issues to begin with which the allergy made worse and that her full siblings may be fine. However, when it comes to risking a child being permanently disabled or the flu, I will take the flu. You have to see it's an odds thing. Her full brothers have a higher risk of having the same reaction or possible underlying condition. The flu on the other hand, for them, is highly unlikely to be permanently damaging.
The additional vaccines, I did not give to them as a precautionary measure. It may be a tad too far, but given I have one disabled child to care for...I can not see myself caring for a second and third effectively. Realistically, it is really a lot to ask of one person to risk her two healthy and normal children and then when they too get ill no one is there to help with the diaper changes, the wheelchair, the carrying 120 pounds around. How would I carry 3 children at 120 to 150 pounds? It would be an impossible task.
So it isn't neuroticism, it's being practical. My government does not give home health care for children often. My daughter has been this way for 15 years. For the first 8, they gave no care at all. Shriner's did, but not the government. Our local physicians outright refused to do anything. The local physical therapists called her a waste of time. They are very callous and unforgiving here socially if you have a disabled child. She was denied entry into school because she wore diapers. She has been excluded even from church and many other social opportunities. This is a child with a perfectly fine functioning brain, but a body that is unable to function like other 15-year-olds.
If society were helpful. If I knew I would not have to carry three adult-sized children through this, I might risk it, one at a time, slowly. Given the climate and the lack of care, compassion, or assistance, forget it. If society wants herd immunity, it needs to pay for that and not let it all on the shoulders of the parents that end up with disabled children for their herd immunity.
First, I had several children before her (her half-siblings) that were fine with vaccinations and fully vaccinated. However, they had a different father, which makes me believe that is why they were fine.
In all of my studies, I haven't seen anything to suggest the heritability of allergies. That said, if there were some combination of your genes, and his, and just random mutation, that caused them, the others should have similar allergies. Probably not as bad, but if you absolutely need to get scratch tests to rule out the father, I'd start with what you know is bad.
Second, I don't deny this one child may be an oddball and had issues to begin with which the allergy made worse and that her full siblings may be fine.
So my intuition was on the money then? I mean, obviously I won't ask you to give us the baby's full medical history, but it seemed odd to me that we went from allergy straight to spinal cord inflammation. Usually it's "just" anaphylaxis if the allergy is bad enough.
, when it comes to risking a child being permanently disabled or the flu, I will take the flu. You have to see..
Look, I get it. The family you choose and make is one of the most, if not the most important thing in the world. I'm sure if my baby ended up paralyzed from some obscure set of issues interacting with a vaccine, I'd go ahead and panic too. Which is really something, given what I'm like. Regardless of the facts, the fear that it could happen to the others even hypothetically is very real and it wouldn't be a small burden if the worst came to pass.
So it isn't neuroticism, it's being practical.
I mean, it still is. That's not a criticism. It's an observation. Being freaked out about paralyzed children is a damn sight preferable to going ahead and vaccinating the rest indiscriminately. This also sounds like it happened a while ago. The internet wasn't as common as it is now and people didn't have the luxury and habit of just looking everything up. But I can tell you, in hindsight, unfortunately, that the others are incredibly unlikely to suffer any reaction at all save for some swelling. The only other vaccine I can think of that might cause an issue is the MMR vaccine, since that has egg too IIRC.
It did happen some years ago. My sons are 12 and 9. Their partially paralyzed sister is 15.
I was trying to get a list of vaccines that had egg in it from the doctor and well, all communications broke down. It kind of disappointed me because I was trying to find a compromise I could live with.
neu·rot·ic
n(y)o͝oˈrädik/Submit
adjectiveMEDICINE
1.
suffering from, caused by, or relating to neurosis.
synonyms: mentally ill, mentally disturbed, unstable, unbalanced, maladjusted; More
I disagree that I am mentally ill for being cautious.
I was trying to get a list of vaccines that had egg in it from the doctor and well, all communications broke down. It kind of disappointed me because I was trying to find a compromise I could live with.
I could help with that, if you want. Just need a bit of Google-fu and some patience to comb through some papers. Either way, I really hope you've already done, or are at least considering testing for egg allergies at some point. Seems you got lucky with your girl with just a reaction to the shot. Can't imagine how well it would have gone if you found out after making her eggs and toast for breakfast.
I disagree that I am mentally ill for being cautious.
Neuroticism is one of the Big Five higher-order personality traits in the study of psychology. Individuals who score high on neuroticism are more likely than average to be moody and to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness.[1] People who are neurotic respond worse to stressors and are more likely to interpret ordinary situations as threatening and minor frustrations as hopelessly difficult.
I haven't taken a formal test, but I'd probably score extremely low on that. Counter-productively so. A guy tried to run me over several times once and it barely registered emotionally.
It would have been devastating. As it is she has an epi pen because of her egg allergy. She had a reaction to a Z-Pack and went limp and stopped breathing. We had to epi-pen her for that too. She is very allergic to a lot of things, but her brother's so far have not been.
My children are on Medicaid and as such, they can not get allergy testing unless they have an autoimmune disorder like asthma or something like Transverse Myelitis. Only one has mild asthma. I can get him tested if his doctor will give a referral. He has refused to refer my son in the past for a multitude of issues. I can try though.
I'm sorry but that doesn't fit me. I have had several psychological evaluations over my life for various reasons. None of them came back with that. All said I was less emotional than most people and that it was an issue. I have had therapists quit because they said they could not help me. I gave up searching for help. About the only thing in my life that I actually care about is the care and safety of my children.
When you touch a hot pan you withdraw your hand because of the physical pain it inflicts. If you reach back out to touch it while hot, one could conclude you are not very bright or crazy. I am just hypersensitive to possible issues and would rather avoid more issues. The fact that I took her back for a second round, because I was not thinking it was the flu shot, should speak to this.
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GoatyMcGoatface ago
Why are vaccinations in general beyond reproach? Why is someone automatically "a dangerous idiot" for being suspect of them?
a11en ago
I think this is my biggest problem here- there’s no room to have discussions of the effects of vaccines at all. All discussions are just shut down. That’s not the scientific method of inquiry. Certainly if the science is sound there’s no problem discussing it?
Dortex ago
It's kind of like Creationists and evolution: Sure, you could sit here and explain to them some of the most well founded theories in science. But why? They've convinced themselves there's some huge conspiracy to hide "the truth" from people. "Discussion" isn't so much an exchange of ideas to them as it is a chance to proselytize. Meanwhile, the anti-vax has an extra element to it where if you get enough morons to ignore sound medical practices, the only people to suffer are children, the Ill, and the elderly, since they tend to be part of the population that benefits most from Herd Immunity.
Voat_a_Goat_Mamma ago
Many anti-vax parents were pro vaccines. I was pro vaccines until I had a child have a serious reaction. What made me vehemently anti-vaccine though was doctors that refused to acknowledge their own scientific data that said she was allergic to the vaccines and push them anyway under threat of CPS.
Dortex ago
You managed to stay on a topic for more than two sentences, unlike the others. Tell me more about this incident of yours.
Voat_a_Goat_Mamma ago
My daughter was fully vaccinated until she had a reaction tot he flu vaccine. She was 7 or 8 months old. At first, we didn't know what it was that caused an allergic reaction which included a sudden lack of interest in walking or moving her feet until she got her second flu vaccine and suddenly became paralyzed from the waist down completely. We, of course, went to the emergency room department and got a lot of accusatory looks. Several tests later, including drug tests, x-rays, cat scans, and more and they turned up nothing.
We then went to Shriner's where they found that she had Transverse Myelitis. In the course of all the testing, it was noted she was severely allergic to eggs and that was the most likely cause of her having a "flare up". The only eggs she had at that time was in the flu shot...she is also allergic to yeast, chickens, and cats.
In the course of conversations with multiple doctors, I have found they either deny that it is possible even with the data staring at them, tell me it is policy to require vaccinations science be damned, or doubt what I am saying even when the record reflects it.
Dortex ago
So one of your children is fine taking all the vaccinations until an undiagnosed egg allergy possibly triggers a paralytic episode. If nothing else, it stands out as a reasonable exacerbator of some separate issue associated with said episode. Your solution to this problem is to deny all of your children vaccinations until you can perform hundreds, possibly thousands of allergy tests.
I'm sensing an unhelpful level of neuroticism.
Voat_a_Goat_Mamma ago
First, I had several children before her that were fine with vaccinations. However, they had a different father, which makes me believe that is why they were fine.
Second, I don't deny this one child may be an oddball and had issues to begin with which the allergy made worse and that her full siblings may be fine. However, when it comes to risking a child being permanently disabled or the flu, I will take the flu. You have to see it's an odds thing. Her full brothers have a higher risk of having the same reaction or possible underlying condition. The flu on the other hand, for them, is highly unlikely to be permanently damaging.
The additional vaccines, I did not give to them as a precautionary measure. It may be a tad too far, but given I have one disabled child to care for...I can not see myself caring for a second and third effectively. Realistically, it is really a lot to ask of one person to risk her two healthy and normal children and then when they too get ill no one is there to help with the diaper changes, the wheelchair, the carrying 120 pounds around. How would I carry 3 children at 120 to 150 pounds? It would be an impossible task.
So it isn't neuroticism, it's being practical. My government does not give home health care for children often. My daughter has been this way for 15 years. For the first 8, they gave no care at all. Shriner's did, but not the government. Our local physicians outright refused to do anything. The local physical therapists called her a waste of time. They are very callous and unforgiving here socially if you have a disabled child. She was denied entry into school because she wore diapers. She has been excluded even from church and many other social opportunities. This is a child with a perfectly fine functioning brain, but a body that is unable to function like other 15-year-olds.
If society were helpful. If I knew I would not have to carry three adult-sized children through this, I might risk it, one at a time, slowly. Given the climate and the lack of care, compassion, or assistance, forget it. If society wants herd immunity, it needs to pay for that and not let it all on the shoulders of the parents that end up with disabled children for their herd immunity.
Dortex ago
In all of my studies, I haven't seen anything to suggest the heritability of allergies. That said, if there were some combination of your genes, and his, and just random mutation, that caused them, the others should have similar allergies. Probably not as bad, but if you absolutely need to get scratch tests to rule out the father, I'd start with what you know is bad.
So my intuition was on the money then? I mean, obviously I won't ask you to give us the baby's full medical history, but it seemed odd to me that we went from allergy straight to spinal cord inflammation. Usually it's "just" anaphylaxis if the allergy is bad enough.
Look, I get it. The family you choose and make is one of the most, if not the most important thing in the world. I'm sure if my baby ended up paralyzed from some obscure set of issues interacting with a vaccine, I'd go ahead and panic too. Which is really something, given what I'm like. Regardless of the facts, the fear that it could happen to the others even hypothetically is very real and it wouldn't be a small burden if the worst came to pass.
I mean, it still is. That's not a criticism. It's an observation. Being freaked out about paralyzed children is a damn sight preferable to going ahead and vaccinating the rest indiscriminately. This also sounds like it happened a while ago. The internet wasn't as common as it is now and people didn't have the luxury and habit of just looking everything up. But I can tell you, in hindsight, unfortunately, that the others are incredibly unlikely to suffer any reaction at all save for some swelling. The only other vaccine I can think of that might cause an issue is the MMR vaccine, since that has egg too IIRC.
Voat_a_Goat_Mamma ago
It did happen some years ago. My sons are 12 and 9. Their partially paralyzed sister is 15.
I was trying to get a list of vaccines that had egg in it from the doctor and well, all communications broke down. It kind of disappointed me because I was trying to find a compromise I could live with.
I disagree that I am mentally ill for being cautious.
Dortex ago
I could help with that, if you want. Just need a bit of Google-fu and some patience to comb through some papers. Either way, I really hope you've already done, or are at least considering testing for egg allergies at some point. Seems you got lucky with your girl with just a reaction to the shot. Can't imagine how well it would have gone if you found out after making her eggs and toast for breakfast.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism
I haven't taken a formal test, but I'd probably score extremely low on that. Counter-productively so. A guy tried to run me over several times once and it barely registered emotionally.
Voat_a_Goat_Mamma ago
I would really appreciate any help honestly.
It would have been devastating. As it is she has an epi pen because of her egg allergy. She had a reaction to a Z-Pack and went limp and stopped breathing. We had to epi-pen her for that too. She is very allergic to a lot of things, but her brother's so far have not been.
My children are on Medicaid and as such, they can not get allergy testing unless they have an autoimmune disorder like asthma or something like Transverse Myelitis. Only one has mild asthma. I can get him tested if his doctor will give a referral. He has refused to refer my son in the past for a multitude of issues. I can try though.
I'm sorry but that doesn't fit me. I have had several psychological evaluations over my life for various reasons. None of them came back with that. All said I was less emotional than most people and that it was an issue. I have had therapists quit because they said they could not help me. I gave up searching for help. About the only thing in my life that I actually care about is the care and safety of my children.
When you touch a hot pan you withdraw your hand because of the physical pain it inflicts. If you reach back out to touch it while hot, one could conclude you are not very bright or crazy. I am just hypersensitive to possible issues and would rather avoid more issues. The fact that I took her back for a second round, because I was not thinking it was the flu shot, should speak to this.