So the model of brain used is people who don't have this variation? For example what about a mechanic vs a Harvard graduate? Is the mechanic's brain "flawed" because his brain works differently?
Also
Overall, the differences in volumes were very small and most likely would not have been found if the study size had not been so large, according to Hoogman.
This is talking about the "executive" area of the brain. There is a distinct difference between "works differently" and "works abnormally." We'd hardly argue that the differences in a schizophrenic's brain (or that of someone bipolar) is merely "a different" way of working since it is a failure of some of the parts which affect things. Come on now, that's not fuckin' rocket surgery. Attempting to mitigate what the differences are so that it can be shoehorned into "just works differently" shows a blatant desire to dismiss how differences affect processes. Because, you know, that kind of rationalization can be used to define brain death as "works differently."
The Harvard link you sent says itself that environmental factors play a part, for example abuse, so wouldn't it stand to reason that a child with developmental problems could be attributed to other factors than simply a "brain disorder"? It even says in the study that the effects are reduced as they develop into adulthood. Also, were these ADHD patients based on self-reporting?
Based on your conclusion that "there is a distinct difference between working abnormally and working differently", that doesn't hold much ground since these ADHD individuals also had a higher mean IQ. But you wouldn't know that unless you went through the pay wall or found it on some corner of the internet, how utterly dishonest (of them, not you).
I was one of the first people diagnosed with ADHD back in the day. I know loads about it and have lived with it in some form or intensity my entire life. The executive areas are not firing correctly. Period. Because of the plasticity of the brain, it can eventually rewire itself to something resembling "normal" but it is developmentally retarded (in the classic Latin meaning of "slow", not the "dur dur retard" kind of meaning). The studies both in this article and elsewhere are based on physiological structures, not psychology. Psychology plays a role in managing ADHD but it is not any yardstick for diagnosis or medication. It has a physical origin which can be "managed" with medical intervention. The only possible cure is time and effort due to, again, the plasticity of the brain.
Being developmentally slow is a legit condition, yo. And it requires attention by everyone involved in the child's life up to and including psychological monitoring (ADHD people have an insanely high suicide rate and/or clinical depression - another thing that most people absolutely don't want to talk about), medical intervention, and various techniques (including strict time management, meditation, habitual "rituals", etc).
It is not something you can just decide is a non-issue as it has its roots in a lack of physiological development in those areas of the brain Ask any parent with a child which truly has ADHD. They'll tell you exactly how it is and how it is not. Ask anyone with ADHD, they'll tell you how difficult it can be just going through the day, walking from one part of the house to the next and forgetting what you were trying to do because you found something else that needs to get done. These parents and children will tell you that you could beat/discipline/punish that child all day long every day and it's not going to make a difference. It takes years, sometimes an entire lifetime, to rewire yourself to overcome it.
Fine, let's put it another way: You can wish all you want, it's still a developmental issue with a physiological origin whether you like it or not. Your opinion isn't going to change how doctors treat it or who has to have treatment.
And that makes me thrilled to no end.
Literally, your opinion is completely worthless and so are you. I hope you never have children. Now do the world a favor and kill yourself. If you find it too difficult to comprehend how to do that, let me know and I'll be happy to help.
Literally, your opinion is completely worthless and so are you. I hope you never have children.
What a fantastic and mature way to end a debate. You're the clear winner. Congrats.
Fact of the matter is I've been diagnosed with everything in the book and somehow today I'm better than ever without pills or anything. But I guess your anecdotal evidence is worth more than mine. Cheers
I came here to explain my theory and beliefs and see if anybody can refute it. Talking to people you disagree with is actually a really good way to determine errors in your philosophy or strengthen it, and simultaneously facilitate the spread of information. Everyone can teach you something regardless of how stupid or smart you perceive them to be, it's just a matter of if you're willing to pay attention. We are all simultaneously teachers and students.
You dropped the discussion after I raised some valid points and devolved into name calling.
You still learned something from this experience, you're just not happy about it.
How cute, asking leading questions again. I bet you have another anecdote to tell all of us why no matter what answer we give is wrong. Let's hear it... This oughta be gud.
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totes_magotes ago
No, it's a malfunction the area of the brain that handles executive decisions (such as concentration). The OVER diagnosis is the problem.
Trash_Panda ago
Can you prove this "malfunction" exists? What is the model for a functional brain? (I.E. What is the point of reference used)
totes_magotes ago
DOES MY USERNAME SAY "GOOGLE"? Look it up yourself next time, retard. It's ultimately YOUR responsibility to educate yourself.
https://www.understood.org/en/community-events/blogs/adhd-news/2017/04/24/large-scale-mri-study-confirms-adhd-brain-differences
Trash_Panda ago
So the model of brain used is people who don't have this variation? For example what about a mechanic vs a Harvard graduate? Is the mechanic's brain "flawed" because his brain works differently?
Also
totes_magotes ago
This is talking about the "executive" area of the brain. There is a distinct difference between "works differently" and "works abnormally." We'd hardly argue that the differences in a schizophrenic's brain (or that of someone bipolar) is merely "a different" way of working since it is a failure of some of the parts which affect things. Come on now, that's not fuckin' rocket surgery. Attempting to mitigate what the differences are so that it can be shoehorned into "just works differently" shows a blatant desire to dismiss how differences affect processes. Because, you know, that kind of rationalization can be used to define brain death as "works differently."
https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/executive-function/
Trash_Panda ago
The Harvard link you sent says itself that environmental factors play a part, for example abuse, so wouldn't it stand to reason that a child with developmental problems could be attributed to other factors than simply a "brain disorder"? It even says in the study that the effects are reduced as they develop into adulthood. Also, were these ADHD patients based on self-reporting?
Based on your conclusion that "there is a distinct difference between working abnormally and working differently", that doesn't hold much ground since these ADHD individuals also had a higher mean IQ. But you wouldn't know that unless you went through the pay wall or found it on some corner of the internet, how utterly dishonest (of them, not you).
I just think you should read both sides before accepting this kind of stuff as gospel http://andrewgelman.com/2017/04/25/33768/
totes_magotes ago
I was one of the first people diagnosed with ADHD back in the day. I know loads about it and have lived with it in some form or intensity my entire life. The executive areas are not firing correctly. Period. Because of the plasticity of the brain, it can eventually rewire itself to something resembling "normal" but it is developmentally retarded (in the classic Latin meaning of "slow", not the "dur dur retard" kind of meaning). The studies both in this article and elsewhere are based on physiological structures, not psychology. Psychology plays a role in managing ADHD but it is not any yardstick for diagnosis or medication. It has a physical origin which can be "managed" with medical intervention. The only possible cure is time and effort due to, again, the plasticity of the brain.
Being developmentally slow is a legit condition, yo. And it requires attention by everyone involved in the child's life up to and including psychological monitoring (ADHD people have an insanely high suicide rate and/or clinical depression - another thing that most people absolutely don't want to talk about), medical intervention, and various techniques (including strict time management, meditation, habitual "rituals", etc).
It is not something you can just decide is a non-issue as it has its roots in a lack of physiological development in those areas of the brain Ask any parent with a child which truly has ADHD. They'll tell you exactly how it is and how it is not. Ask anyone with ADHD, they'll tell you how difficult it can be just going through the day, walking from one part of the house to the next and forgetting what you were trying to do because you found something else that needs to get done. These parents and children will tell you that you could beat/discipline/punish that child all day long every day and it's not going to make a difference. It takes years, sometimes an entire lifetime, to rewire yourself to overcome it.
Trash_Panda ago
That's great but your tirade isn't really relevant to anything I just said. Anecdotal evidence isn't very useful to me.
totes_magotes ago
Fine, let's put it another way: You can wish all you want, it's still a developmental issue with a physiological origin whether you like it or not. Your opinion isn't going to change how doctors treat it or who has to have treatment.
And that makes me thrilled to no end.
Literally, your opinion is completely worthless and so are you. I hope you never have children. Now do the world a favor and kill yourself. If you find it too difficult to comprehend how to do that, let me know and I'll be happy to help.
Trash_Panda ago
What a fantastic and mature way to end a debate. You're the clear winner. Congrats.
Fact of the matter is I've been diagnosed with everything in the book and somehow today I'm better than ever without pills or anything. But I guess your anecdotal evidence is worth more than mine. Cheers
totes_magotes ago
Cry some more. You only came here to tell everyone how wrong they are if they believe anything about ADHD. You're worthless and pathetic.
Trash_Panda ago
I came here to explain my theory and beliefs and see if anybody can refute it. Talking to people you disagree with is actually a really good way to determine errors in your philosophy or strengthen it, and simultaneously facilitate the spread of information. Everyone can teach you something regardless of how stupid or smart you perceive them to be, it's just a matter of if you're willing to pay attention. We are all simultaneously teachers and students.
You dropped the discussion after I raised some valid points and devolved into name calling.
You still learned something from this experience, you're just not happy about it.
totes_magotes ago
Cry and whine all you want, faggot. You got nothing I want to read.
Trash_Panda ago
Why does high IQ correlate with "mental illness"?
totes_magotes ago
How cute, asking leading questions again. I bet you have another anecdote to tell all of us why no matter what answer we give is wrong. Let's hear it... This oughta be gud.
Trash_Panda ago
No, I'm curious what your theory is. Also this deep in the comment thread there is no "us" other than me and you lol.