Most of us know by now that many popular online forums are plagued with bots, some more advanced than others.
I propose that they are not only participating in existing debates but creating entirely new debates and re-kindling old ones, such as with the flat earth idiocy.
What if the goal of alphabet agency X is to test its advanced AI to see how well it can influence online debate, change opinions, and get people to waste their time. starting from a completely ridiculous foundation such as 'flat earth'?
iDontShift ago
sorry, but your wrong about this one.
the flat earth is real, probably ... lol.
but the evidence we have, gyroscopes for example, prove we are on a stationary plane. gyroscopes maintain their plane... on a rotating earth they should rotate every 24 hours 360 degrees. this is logical. but it doesn't happen. they don't move, at all.
then we have the suez canal.. 100 miles, completely flat, no drop. globe earth predicts 80 feet of drop. where is it? water is level, clearly, based on the reflections that appear to run the entire length of a lake, if it was curved it would not do that, it would be limited to a small spot.
GhostPantsMcGee ago
Hey, I'm not a bot and I participate in flat earthery. It isn't so much that I believe it is flat than it is a position I take to mock religious "$cientists" and try to redpill them in the ways they are or at least may be tricked by figures they view as authority. I like the term "borrowed authority" because it usually only takes a couple questions to expose people as unthinking parrots. What interests me is they take definitively unscientific claims and defend them with the same amount of zeal one might take if you tried to argue what their own name is.
For your own thought experiment: can you scientifically prove the earth is round? Before you start borrowing authority all over the place here, let me remind you of they key ingredients to real science; observable, testable, repeatable. Avid flat earthers have covered most of the expiriments that fit in this range. Their claimed results: earth is flat! Their real results: inconclusive (but often containing disproofs of round claims rather than actual roundness), but inconclusive is a terribly exciting result to a properly set up experiment, especially in an attempt to disprove reigning rhetoric using their own experiments.
I unironically think NASA is full of shit; money laundering at best, malicious deception at worst. The rise of other space agencies does very little to change my mind on this and I approach them with skepticism always. I have little faith they have done anything but copy a successful and popular money laundering scheme, and this new blink 182 nonsense is almost an open admission of aiming to do similar.
For anyone curious about idea; I recommend starting with something simple, like finding out how we know the distance from the earth to the sun (which has changed several times in my own life, each time with religious defenders asserting it a pure truth, a "scientific fact").
Anyways, I'm not on voat much, but if you don't mind waiting for an answer, drop me some questions.
IIJOSEPHXII ago
If you're doing scientific experiments - such as pharmaceutical testing - you need a control group that are given a placebo to ensure the people who are given the real drug being tested, aren't returning false results.
The control group in a psyop such as flat earth would be those people who are known to be non-shills, but are returning data that is the same as the shills. This data is then run against data returned from false flags and hoaxes to see how well those psyops have disseminated and been believed by the public.
The NSA have incredibly powerful computers running incredibly complex algorithms that can convert every word or groupings of words an individual shares on the internet, into number values and then into graphics that can tell them whether they have gotten away with a conspiracy.
They will have a picture of how flat earth is being accepted by the public and they will have a picture of how the vegas "massacre" went down with the public and they can compare the two - and this is used to manage resources when it comes to mis/disinformation agents. It can also identify undesirables - remember the general who said, "We kill people based on metadata?" Some of that is at play here too.
The best analogy I can make is the public are a shoal of fish and the corporate/government spooks are a pod of dolphins who use psyops to herd the public into a bait ball where they can pick people off and eliminate them from the population.
ardvarcus ago
I tend to believe that the flat earth campaign is just a way to test to what extent a large portion of the population can be made to believe in something that is utter nonsense and has no supporting evidence. Who is doing the testing hasn't been made public yet.
But you know, this test was unnecessary. We already have an example of a large percentage of the population being made to believe utter nonsense with no hard evidence to back it up ... man-made global warming. We have a large chunk of our supposedly educated population believing the proposition that humanity is catastrophically warming the Earth, and that this warming will destroy us. There is no serious evidence to support this silly idea, and a vast amount of evidence to the contrary, yet because it is repeated endlessly in the media by mindless talking heads, many people -- liberals, mostly -- believe it.
GhostPantsMcGee ago
I find your post deliciously ironic. I especially like how you graced reality with your fingertips in the second paragraph. Could you humor me and supply your supporting evidence for your theory without leaning on borrowed authority?
mightnotbearobot ago
If you are a Flat Earther then you have serious mental problems. Why are all the FE'ers in the USA? I wonder...
Ziggystrife ago
Flat earth is very real. Listen to this during a long car ride. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbQQBzXAQ1Q
slumbermachine ago
Funny you said all that, I use to copy from a notepad, but got lazy lately. Guess that's what I get. Occam's razor was one of my arguments.
dooob ago
Who funds Flat Earthers?
Why?
slumbermachine ago
God, because truth will lead you there.
varialus ago
TIL Voat is a surprisingly successful Alphabet AI experiment, lol!
fuspezza ago
Ever since we were in kindergartens we have been sure the earth is a sphere. Does that mean flat earth people never went to kindergarten. If asked by a teacher to draw a PLANEt and you draw it flat like a plane you get rediculled for being stupid. Some people can’t pick up even the easiest programs.
slumbermachine ago
Who controls education? What does almost every elementary classroom have? (a globe)
greycloud ago
so you think v/pizzagate is ran by bots?
tibstibs ago
If you want to debunk the hilarious flat earth bullshit, just go to a high vantage point. You can see the curvature for yourself.
slumbermachine ago
I've flown as high as 38,000 ft and never saw any curve.
jesus_is_lord ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_PpYbm0kqQ
jesus_is_lord ago
no you can't see the curvature because the curvature doesn't exist, the light houses are a certain proof of that,
tibstibs ago
I've seen it myself, you cannot unsee it for me.
slumbermachine ago
Yeah, I bet you saw a curve. The mind can trick you easily when you've been programmed with stupidity.
jesus_is_lord ago
now measure it and prove it to me
tibstibs ago
Your ignorance does not concern me.
jesus_is_lord ago
ok shill
JonReeeeed ago
there are definitely ai bots running from google to target opposing political perspectives. this is why im getting sick of using the internet. it seems obvious that ive chatted with bots a few times...
there are "troll" bots just doing the probability thing sending messages then someone chimes in "haha look youre being trolled" and usually attempts some form of public humiliation.
start talking to people in real life again
snappypickle ago
shill much?
look, it really doesnt matter whether flat or globe right now—
We know the photos are faked, we know the video is faked, we know live broadcasts are using distortion filters and rendering 3D images in real time. We also know that much of their photography is "composite" photography.
and any moron who's been in the air above 10 stories knows there is no observable curve. and any professional photographer who isn't an amime asian fag pedo, will admit that almost all public broadcasting video is using a fish-eye lens.
jesus_is_lord ago
he won't because there are none
Oh_Well_ian ago
This is very similar to my take on Sandy Hook. It was/is a massive psyop by federal, local, and state agencies, the MSM and social media platforms, and assisted by AI. The 'official story' was intentionally full of holes and contradictions, to test the ability of all entities working together to push a false narrative. Social media and AI were not prevalent on 9/11 and the false flag played out mostly in government and traditional media. A test was needed, and Sandy Hook was it. These false flag psyops have one thing in common >> they are intentionally scripted with conflicting evidence and theories that divide the public and prevent a consensus from forming. In other words, it's a chaos factory that pumps out disinformation.
jesus_is_lord ago
@metism why don't you show us a genuine unedited photo of the entire earth taken from "space"?
metism ago
Now I'm convinced you are a bot. Either that or a human programmed to spout nonsense.
jesus_is_lord ago
what does it matter if it's one line or 2, answer my question tool
metism ago
"You called me a name and now I must preserve my dignity by responding to you"
lol.
Like I said, you can't formulate a coherent sentence without insults.
How does it feel to be a bot?
(this conversation is over, by the way. That's a rhetorical question.)
jesus_is_lord ago
i know it is over, cause you don't know anything about anything, or you are just shilling
B000ne ago
All the junkies around here believe in flat earth. I found it odd but you think it could be a combination of drugs and mind control?
Yates ago
It seems to have originated from accounts aligned with the Cult of Siduri. An anthropology prof from LA was at the center of that but he went dark last time I checked and his essays on FE were wiped. There's a hashtag from way back and some weird YT vids also check /xpol/ for an old thread on it if it still exists. I think it's a psyop and that acceptance and promotion of it signals to the handler that the subject has been triggered and ready for commands.
Cc1914 ago
That's my theory .. drugs and mind control
javierNelson ago
I just thought it was shit posts
ardvarcus ago
Yeah, but is seems a little too persistent and widespread to be just shit posts. It looks like a deliberate campaign to embed the flat-earth idea in the general population.
Bill_Murrays_Sandals ago
Pretty sure it started on /pol/ as an elaborate ruse that spiraled out of control.
dooob ago
Except the FE fags are well funded and organized.
slumbermachine ago
No the FE people are just smarter then you and have done their research and homework.
jesus_is_lord ago
where does the water curve?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA89iDq7PzE
Ywis ago
If there's any truth to that then the internet is just an exercise in population control now.
KILLtheRATS ago
DO NOT WASTE TIME ON FLAT EARTHER SHIT. ITS MEANT TO WASTE TIME...... as i am doing right now...
ardvarcus ago
Flat earth theory is an interesting phenomenon. It is an outgrowth of the general lack of believe in the Western mind. It could never have arisen if Westerners were grounded in a solid system of belief, but for decades we have been taught that there is no truth, that one thing is just as valid as another, that there are no absolutes, that everything is relative, that God doesn't exist, that morality is a fiction, that tradition is something to be mocked and thrown away, that history is a lie. A good many people believe this nonsense. That's about the only thing they believe -- that they can't believe in anything. And in such a soil of intellectual vunerability a crazy theory such as the flat earth can be planted and take root and spread, if enough people (or bots) keep repeating it.
The fact that the flat earth is taken seriously by a significant number of people is a demonstration of how vulnerable our culture has become, how easily it can be destroyed or replaced by another stronger culture.
Antiracist10 ago
If there was any evidence of round earth, it should just easily be provided each time flat earth is brought up.
But the survival of flat earth is indicative that there's no such evidence.
@eagleshigh @bojangles @sarmegahhikkitha
KILLtheRATS ago
I won't accept it as organic.
slumbermachine ago
If you aren't searching out truth , then why are you here? It doesn't take much more then a few hours of research and questioning to find out there is way more evidence that it is flat then ball. The classic sign of a shill/bot is those that attempt to stop thinking/discussion using tactics like yours:
albatrosv14 ago
Actually... I will just give you a link -- http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1810
EngelbertHumperdinck ago
This is it right here. It's too long for me to read right now, but the title says it all. Nasa faked the moon landings and needs to keep the general public in the dark about it or they lose all credibility and funding. So they start a disinfo psyop to associate "NASA is full of shit" with "Flat Earth".
ardvarcus ago
Except, NASA didn't fake the moon landings. The idea that they were faked is the disinformation.
EngelbertHumperdinck ago
I don't understand. Are you saying I've got it backwards? Like, the earth is flat and NASA doesn't want anyone to know, so they started a rumor that they faked the moon landings to associate the two ideas together?
ridemyplane ago
All I know is if its a way of introducing Indian and Chinese traditional cosmology theories to the American public I'd rather use a gummy worm maker.
senpaithatignoresyou ago
I assumed it was either a psyop, or some sort of mental census. Imagine the power you would have over the kikes if you can openly show that the immigrants are completely stupid, and believe the world is flat. Imagine the damage it would do to their agenda if you can show how much the tax payer would have to spend on educating them.
KekistanEmperor ago
I don't understand your argument. The kikes already know immigrants are completely stupid. That's why they're pushing them on the goyim.
senpaithatignoresyou ago
You need to lurk more, and do more research.
You think the kikes are the only ones pulling strings? Ever stop and ask why an openly gay libertarian billionaire would get a standing ovation at the RNC, while ted cruz, a conservative Christian zionist got booed off the stage?
Peter Thiel made prism. Peter Thiel trashed gawker. Gawker was the front line weapon, the faggot deathstar of the democrats, and Thiel destroyed it with a pro wrestler.
I am suspecting that thiel is also behind the hollywood troubles right now. He has the technology and the people in place to oust the hollywood liberals. These people were connected with both gawker and the clintons. Anthoney weiner was also connected with gawker.
KekistanEmperor ago
You're probably right. I get tired of trying to figure out who is fucking us at any given time.
Wargasm ago
There are easier, and less retarded, ways to test advanced AI.
For instance, wouldn't it be a more useful test to see how a covert AI interacted with real people on social media? That test could demonstrate worth in fields like customer service with actual numbers like: number of human friends made, number of actual human interactions without detection, etc...
lemon11 ago
That sounds like exactly what a FE bot already would do. Influencing dumb conversations reduces the costs and risks of exposure, which means they can operate longer and more flexibly to perfect the technology.
Tb0n3 ago
They're pretty god damn hilarious. Are you sure it's not just a comedy troupe?
slumbermachine ago
I laugh at idiots that think we live on a ball spinning over 1000 mph and then going around the sun even faster. The Earth is flat. Tell me, why is it when ships go past the horizon I can zoom in with a camera and see the entire ship? Can you prove 8ft drop every mile anywhere on Earth? Currently, the Trump admin is fighting to remove certain elements of elites, but they can't have everyone learning the full truth, cause they would lose all control. Thus why all of a sudden negative FE is getting shill attention, lots of it recently and it all ties in with the Q drops. Think a little people.
dooob ago
Why is it more ridiculous to think we are on a round-ish earth than on a flat one? 0.2 shekels deposited on your pathetic account.
slumbermachine ago
Because I can give proof, where you cannot.
dooob ago
Inb4 muh curved lenses
https://ourplnt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Earth-from-ISS-2016-09-16-2.jpg
slumbermachine ago
haha, your proof? cgi pics?
dooob ago
Of course...
slumbermachine ago
Do you have anything that can prove the Earth is a ball besides fake photos from Nasa?
mightnotbearobot ago
Show me a picture of the "ice wall"
slumbermachine ago
Show me what the UN Antarctic treaty does. You know that treaty that makes it illegal for anyone to explore Antarctica. Now, where's that proof of the globe again?
mightnotbearobot ago
God damn flat earthers are thick lmao
Reddiggoat ago
Yes.
Tb0n3 ago
lol
metism ago
What other "conspiracy theories" are there that have reached out to so many other kinds of online forums? Just doing a search for "flat earth" on Reddit shows results in a variety of subs, such as r/nba, environment, funny, videos, gaming, comics, EverythingScience, and others.
Granted, some of these are parodies but these discussions have HUNDREDS of comments and upvotes. What matters more than the content of the posts is what it gets people to think about.
I used to think is was a CHIA tool to demoralize society but the more comments I read from flat earth supporters the more unreal they seem. Like they're not exactly human.
iDontShift ago
i'm human. i accuse you of being a schill of misinformation... or someone who hasn't done their own research.
i argued with flat earthers on steemit.com .. and found them to be dismissive of any information i asked them to discuss. they yelled at me, they called me names, they downvoted me. but they did not discuss the facts.
some facts i've found that convinced me:
gyroscopes don't move. they would on a moving planet because they maintain their plane.
suez canal is 100 miles and completely flat. globe earth says there would be 80 feet of drop.
this guy, eric dubay has a mountain of proofs that i tested myself. didn't go thru all of them, but many, and found confirmation.
the major story is all the 'flat earthers' that are bots, they are schills they are making it seem that you have talked to one, but you haven't, you talk to a schill that made you think they where crazy. i know because 9 out of 10 videos about flat earth are in fact lies. i chanced upon a true one, that really pointed it out.
i was researching the eclipse, i'm good at holding 3d models in my head, and couldn't figure out the path of the eclipse. on the globe it does a freaking wave type path, in the flat earth model it goes in a circle. which do you think is correct?
also the 200 foot wall of ice that is antarctica is not a small continent, it surrounds us, and i found people that tried to explore it and ended up spending 1.5 years sailing 'around' it...
whatever, are you even real i dunno, but here it is, my proof. there is plenty more.
how do you tell the real flat earthers from the fake? i dunno, tons of research... that is what i did and do.
slumbermachine ago
So, I get from this you think water does not always go level? Show me an ocean or lake that curves. I'm not a bot or shill unless those guys also produce music and work as engineers using the same name.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
Water doesn't always go level, it moves towards the center of gravity in equal proportion.
If a concentration of gravity is like a pinpoint, and the water like a basketball all the water will be equally attracted to the pinpoint, with the effect getting less the further away from the pinpoint the water is.
The concept of "flat" is an effect of how close we are to the surface of the object we're looking at. When you're at sea level on a boat it may appear flat, but that's more an effect of your proximity than it actually being flat.
If you go to a height a few hundred feet above that boat, you would see a slight curvature in the distance, but near you it would still be "flat".
At a thousand feet up, it's all curved and there are no flat parts. If you go even higher it's much more obvious (you might have to wait a few minuets for the orbit to reach dayside)
Gravity affects equally in all directions. To have a mathematically flat plane of water you would have to be in an area of literal zero gravity (doesn't exist in nature) or an area where multiple sources of gravity created an area in the middle that was equivalent to zero. But seeing as our galaxy revolves around a huge gravity point, even that "flat" plane would curve if it was many light years long.
Surface tension can provide a similar effect on fluids in microgravity, the equal force applied over the volume forces the fluid into a sphere unless a new force is applied.
Surface tension is not gravity, but it can help illustrate the idea of equal force applied to a fluid in all directions.
In terms of scale (time and size), all the material of our planet could be considered a fluid, especially when considered over a period of billions of years. The cumulative effect of gravity in our core has progressively moved all the dirt, rocks etc into an effective sphere (oblate spheroid for the persnickety). But from our perspective of time, we can't observe this as we're just not around long enough to see it happen.
I'm really hoping you're have a bit of a laf with the question, because any engineer should know about the basic precepts involved, as it all relies on the same physics used every day, just at a larger sale.
In terms of the original question, my response would further refine an neural network so that future responses would be cogent counter arguments to everything I posted.
Unless of course I poisoned the well in other forums with replies designed to specifically negate my response here.
When you know how they work , it's rather easy to mess with learning algorithms.
GhostPantsMcGee ago
This is objectively not true. I'm not an advanced enough bot to prove it mathematically, but the difficulty pilots have seeing the curvature at cruising altitude should be a valuable anecdote, as they spend much time in the sky, have a better view than passengers, and better eyesight on average.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/633492-pilots-when-can-you-start-seeing-curvature-earth-sky-black.html
Of course, take their anecdote with a grain of salt, as even you think you can see it from a mere few hundred feet, and in my youth I was convinced I could see it at sea level! Suggestion and delusion are powerful forces, some pilots are even aware enough to admit they may be imagining it, as the effect is so subtle.
I totally agree that the water level thing is retarded, but I think it is a red herring, a widespread misconception, or disinfo.
If the topic interests you, consider looking into the science behind gyroscopes (an indispensable device in airplanes) and ponder over how one could possibly work on a long flight over curved earth.
Yours truly, 01000111 01101000 01101111 01110011 01110100 01110000 01100001 01101110 01110100 01110011 01101101 01100011 01100111 01100101 01100101
slumbermachine ago
Fuck had a great reply and it got screwed up. Figures. Sorry, educating you is not worth the hour I just lost writing up the proofs.
VictorSteinerDavion ago
There's no amount of rebuttal that would convince me otherwise.
I've seen the curve of the earth with my own eyes from a number of altitudes, one the highest you can go without joining a military organization or NASA.
If you truly, genuinely believe the earth is flat, more power to you and I'm sure your evidence is very convincing to you, but it won't be for me.
And from reading the replies below yours, there are people on this earth with only the most tenuous understanding of reality.
Then your belief must not be particularly strong and your evidence is likely weak and easily discarded.
Reddiggoat ago
Nice, you made the AI resort to ad-hominem!
VictorSteinerDavion ago
I what manner did I use ad-hominem?
Reddiggoat ago
You didn't, you made the AI do it. ("educating you is not worth the hour...")
slumbermachine ago
I had written up a page long rebuttal and thoughts to ponder about the shape of the Earth, but after I clicked preview, boom, my comment was gone and I was annoyed. Do AI get annoyed?
jesus_is_lord ago
most flat earthers are or will be Christian, if you don't understand Christianity (which you obviously don't) you will never understand the global Conspiracy, so from now on you should just stop reading and posting anything in the conspiracy forums
metism ago
umm.. you sound like a bot.
jesus_is_lord ago
it is saying something, just not to you cause you're either clueless or a shill, but i'm not just talking to you, i'm talking to everyone who will be reading it :)
ridemyplane ago
I had hoped it was the germ of a science learning program...one can always hope?