Vaccines are poisons. We are not born to be dependent on vaccines. It even goes against evolution. You'd think we would have evolved to have an immune system capable of resisting 'measles', but governments think otherwise...
Yup, that's what I meant by exposure. In this case, the dangers of exposure to the actual organisms are minimized by being exposed to attenuated versions of viruses, or to non-virulent strains of similar organisms, as is the case with tetanus vaccines.
I know right? Finding solutions to problems is so stupid. Honestly, why do we even drink water? You think we'd have evolved to just suck up all the water out of the ocean for that shit. Food too, what's the point of that? Plants suck their food out of the air and ground, why can't we just sit down and photosynthesize? Why do we wear clothes? Seems like we could have just evolved to have a fur coat or something. You know what? Fuck all medicine, all society, let's just go swim in the ocean with great whites or go to Siberia and live as nudists. You go first.
I don't know about small pox but humanity is basically immune to polio. By vaccinating against it though, the .5% of people who would have lasting damage and most likely wouldn't pass on their genes, are able to reproduce - almost certainly causing that .5% number to raise rather than fall.
Yeah it's a little bit of an oversimplification. Viruses evolve quite rapidly. Vaccines do save lives. The problem is when they are potentially used for other purposes. You can do a lot of damage with a syringe.
This is where I differ from other "anti-vaxxers", I think it doesn't matter if we go unvaccinated against these diseases, because a: vaccines don't have the efficacy rates they claim and b: we don't need so many people anyway. I would rather let nature decide what we should die from, and if we need to cull the herd then I'll do my best to enjoy the life I have.
Yeah. And they fibbed to reach numbers they needed. I can look, I know I read a few pieces about industry sponsored research and how results are forced in favor of the company requesting that research be done. I just think, with the way we see big pharma companies, Monsanto, GE, mainstream media conglomerates, etc., looking out for themselves and not the people they call consumers, is it out of the realm of possibility for this to be one case in many, rather than an isolated incident?
Well, that's harder to prove because we haven't had huge outbreaks of say, smallpox, measles, and so forth in areas with high vaccination populations. If they did, that would be an indicator of this being one case in many. But we haven't. On the other hand, not having huge outbreaks is pretty good proof that the majority of vaccines work.
And it's entirely possible that the testing requirements for vaccines are more rigorous than usefulness dictates; maybe they only need to have a 75% efficacy in the lab to work 100% in the human body, because unlike the test tube blood samples they use to test with, an actual human body manufactures antibodies on the fly in your lymph nodes. The legal requirements of vaccines might not be in line with the physical requirements. Its not surprising that the laws don't match what is needed, because the people that write the guidelines probably have no idea how the immune system works. Much like how they don't know how the internet works, or what the internet is.
Additionally, a 'wild strain' of mumps wouldn't necessarily need to be tested against to make a mumps vaccine that protects against wild strains of mumps, as this depends on how the human body utilizes the attenuated pathogen to make antibodies. Influenza is tricky, because the part that mutates the most is the part that our bodies use to identify it, so the influenza your white blood cells learn to fight might not look anything like the flu strain you become infected with, to the immune cells they're the wrong color and shape and taste. This is also why we have new flu vaccines every year.
While I respect your decisions and views, I personally don't consider that sire to be un-biased. A quick google shows it's generally very conspiracy-centric, which is not necessarily where I'd like to read news.
...with all due respect, we're in a conspiracy subverse here. There are many obscure news or pseudo news sites cited to draw our conclusions towards "conspiracies", so basically I'm saying don't dismiss the theory based on the source of the information.
view the rest of the comments →
samtrovaum ago
Vaccines are poisons. We are not born to be dependent on vaccines. It even goes against evolution. You'd think we would have evolved to have an immune system capable of resisting 'measles', but governments think otherwise...
boltsand ago
We do have an immune system that is capable of resisting measles. In order for your body to develop antibodies, however, exposure is required.
nursenerd ago
Or, you know, get vaccinated and get the antibodies without risking complications.
boltsand ago
Yup, that's what I meant by exposure. In this case, the dangers of exposure to the actual organisms are minimized by being exposed to attenuated versions of viruses, or to non-virulent strains of similar organisms, as is the case with tetanus vaccines.
samtrovaum ago
Or don't and live your life like a normal person without subjecting yourself to poisons.
Chompchompers ago
I know right? Finding solutions to problems is so stupid. Honestly, why do we even drink water? You think we'd have evolved to just suck up all the water out of the ocean for that shit. Food too, what's the point of that? Plants suck their food out of the air and ground, why can't we just sit down and photosynthesize? Why do we wear clothes? Seems like we could have just evolved to have a fur coat or something. You know what? Fuck all medicine, all society, let's just go swim in the ocean with great whites or go to Siberia and live as nudists. You go first.
samtrovaum ago
Bla bla bla, whine whine whine.
drbarke ago
You second. I'll get there eventually.
samtrovaum ago
False equivalency is a fallacy. You wrote 5 lines of highly concentrated bullshit. Congrats.
Kleyno ago
With that line of thinking, I guess we should just let smallpox back into the wild and destroy all our stockpiles of the vaccine.
We should have evolved the ability to resist it by now, I mean, it has been with us for thousands of years.
sadam029 ago
I don't know about small pox but humanity is basically immune to polio. By vaccinating against it though, the .5% of people who would have lasting damage and most likely wouldn't pass on their genes, are able to reproduce - almost certainly causing that .5% number to raise rather than fall.
Mumberthrax ago
Yeah it's a little bit of an oversimplification. Viruses evolve quite rapidly. Vaccines do save lives. The problem is when they are potentially used for other purposes. You can do a lot of damage with a syringe.
madmalloy ago
SANITATION, NOT VACCINATION THE TRUE Protection against Small-Pox
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/tebb1.html
zeesquees ago
This is where I differ from other "anti-vaxxers", I think it doesn't matter if we go unvaccinated against these diseases, because a: vaccines don't have the efficacy rates they claim and b: we don't need so many people anyway. I would rather let nature decide what we should die from, and if we need to cull the herd then I'll do my best to enjoy the life I have.
nursenerd ago
Care to cite your sources on these claims of innefficacy? I could use it for my A&P paper.
zeesquees ago
I cited this article in another comment. Follow links to documentation of proof.
nursenerd ago
Iiiiinteresting.
Okay. So in this particular instance the mumps vaccine from this single company wasn't 95% effective.
zeesquees ago
Yeah. And they fibbed to reach numbers they needed. I can look, I know I read a few pieces about industry sponsored research and how results are forced in favor of the company requesting that research be done. I just think, with the way we see big pharma companies, Monsanto, GE, mainstream media conglomerates, etc., looking out for themselves and not the people they call consumers, is it out of the realm of possibility for this to be one case in many, rather than an isolated incident?
nursenerd ago
Well, that's harder to prove because we haven't had huge outbreaks of say, smallpox, measles, and so forth in areas with high vaccination populations. If they did, that would be an indicator of this being one case in many. But we haven't. On the other hand, not having huge outbreaks is pretty good proof that the majority of vaccines work.
And it's entirely possible that the testing requirements for vaccines are more rigorous than usefulness dictates; maybe they only need to have a 75% efficacy in the lab to work 100% in the human body, because unlike the test tube blood samples they use to test with, an actual human body manufactures antibodies on the fly in your lymph nodes. The legal requirements of vaccines might not be in line with the physical requirements. Its not surprising that the laws don't match what is needed, because the people that write the guidelines probably have no idea how the immune system works. Much like how they don't know how the internet works, or what the internet is.
Additionally, a 'wild strain' of mumps wouldn't necessarily need to be tested against to make a mumps vaccine that protects against wild strains of mumps, as this depends on how the human body utilizes the attenuated pathogen to make antibodies. Influenza is tricky, because the part that mutates the most is the part that our bodies use to identify it, so the influenza your white blood cells learn to fight might not look anything like the flu strain you become infected with, to the immune cells they're the wrong color and shape and taste. This is also why we have new flu vaccines every year.
mwg ago
Do you have a non-biased source for your statement that vaccines don't have the efficacy rates they claim?
zeesquees ago
This is a good example I think. I don't know what sites are considered non-biased and/or reputable by this community, but I like their articles here.
mwg ago
While I respect your decisions and views, I personally don't consider that sire to be un-biased. A quick google shows it's generally very conspiracy-centric, which is not necessarily where I'd like to read news.
Wiki page of the founder.
Rational Wiki about the site.
zeesquees ago
...with all due respect, we're in a conspiracy subverse here. There are many obscure news or pseudo news sites cited to draw our conclusions towards "conspiracies", so basically I'm saying don't dismiss the theory based on the source of the information.
samtrovaum ago
So why haven't we? Doesn't your science based evolution god been able to solve that one?
nursenerd ago
That science based evolution god gave you that internet connection. Have some respect.
deathcomesilent ago
Al Gore is no scientist.
/joke