Keep convincing yourself that my argument is invalid by lying to yourself.
Edit: Lying to yourself and your lack of ability to make a solid argument, since as I said, you dont understand even the most basic principles of the concepts you critic.
You really dont understand what Im trying to do, do you? Fuck the zionists, fuck israel and fuck the jews! I dont give two shits about whatever "justice" that you or anyone else think is due in the world. You know what I DO care about? Discourse. And you cant have a proper discourse when you dont even understand the nature of the things you pretend to understand. Things like zionism. Which, since you conceded with my view, you understand better now.
Thats what important to me, that when you say "something", you understand what the hell youre talking about, and not just add words you heard other adults say (like zionism and racism).
What if I said, America should be a "white state." Would not that be racist AF?
Thats the thing, zionism is not the statement that there should be a "jewish-only state" or even a "jews are superior state". There are zionists who say that, but zionism in itself only calls for a "jewish state". That has even been considered by some zionists as state in which jews are merely elegiable for citizenship but nothing more out of the ordinery. Which would be unfair, but not racist.
Zionism is also unrelated (inherently, mind you) to a certain piece of land (israel/palastine), like you keep asserting. This fact can be proven quite easily, by the fact that Theodor Herzl, one of the first zionists who called for a jewish state, offered to establish it in Uganda, not in israel.
And lastly the claim for an "ethnic state" is completely understandable to me, and that applies to every etnicity. "White" however, isnt so much an ethnicity as it is a feature of it, I think we can agree. So lets switch the word white with an actual ethnicity like Indians (The ones from america, not from India). Then, we can see its not as racist (by what I gathered to be your definition of racism), since the Indian people, like every ethnic group, should have a right, by my opinion at least, to have a political and govermental entity of some kind. Dont you agree? Same goes for jewish folk.
So, you see, its not the same thing as your "white state" example, since we cant consider "white" a real ethnicity, and because in your example you already planted the notion which you hold about zionism. My claim still stands, my friend, that zionism is not inherently racist.
Its not a secret that journalism is a biased proffession, and as they are journalists they have a bias. Haaretz tend to be more of a leftist, liberal agenda newspaper, which is fine, but the recent election stired the political climate quite a bit in israel, specificly in the left and center.
What kind of stiring you ask? well, the left is feeling left out, even "swindled" out of their rightful votes by netanyahu. Haaretz is no different, and is acting in favour what they percive as their intrests (just as any journalist would do) and report on things that are almost non-issues as life/democracy threatning. And thats why I consider them to be a drama queen.
I can "admit" thats its unafair because I AM NOT DEFENDING ZIONISM!
Look dude, im simply saying that a "jewish state" doesnt have to be a racist one, the same way a zionist doesnt have to be a racist. They can be those things, the same way anyone can be, but they are not inherent with their definition. A non-jew can have equel rights in a theoretical "jewish state", Im not saying that they do in the current one, I dont care about that, only that they can, therefore its not inherently racist.
Even if I accept your statement as true (for the sake of the argument):
(zionists) hold The belief that people of jewish ethnicity have been chosen by god to occupy a given territory
This still doesnt make zionism inherently racist, since the statement doesnt entail the "Jewification" or the expulsion of any other existing people, nor implies any sort of treatment or political status.
You can call it unfair, or even morally wrong, but it doesnt make it racist.
Im not saying that israel isnt racist, but Zionists are jewish nationalists, not jewish sepremacists, and nationalists are not inherently sepremacists or even racist.
Just for the record.
And it still doesnt make Haaretz any less of a drama queen.
ClownSplooge ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Keep convincing yourself that my argument is invalid by lying to yourself.
Edit: Lying to yourself and your lack of ability to make a solid argument, since as I said, you dont understand even the most basic principles of the concepts you critic.
ClownSplooge ago
You really dont understand what Im trying to do, do you? Fuck the zionists, fuck israel and fuck the jews! I dont give two shits about whatever "justice" that you or anyone else think is due in the world. You know what I DO care about? Discourse. And you cant have a proper discourse when you dont even understand the nature of the things you pretend to understand. Things like zionism. Which, since you conceded with my view, you understand better now.
Thats what important to me, that when you say "something", you understand what the hell youre talking about, and not just add words you heard other adults say (like zionism and racism).
shmegegy ago
it's a conspiracy?
ClownSplooge ago
Thats the thing, zionism is not the statement that there should be a "jewish-only state" or even a "jews are superior state". There are zionists who say that, but zionism in itself only calls for a "jewish state". That has even been considered by some zionists as state in which jews are merely elegiable for citizenship but nothing more out of the ordinery. Which would be unfair, but not racist.
Zionism is also unrelated (inherently, mind you) to a certain piece of land (israel/palastine), like you keep asserting. This fact can be proven quite easily, by the fact that Theodor Herzl, one of the first zionists who called for a jewish state, offered to establish it in Uganda, not in israel.
And lastly the claim for an "ethnic state" is completely understandable to me, and that applies to every etnicity. "White" however, isnt so much an ethnicity as it is a feature of it, I think we can agree. So lets switch the word white with an actual ethnicity like Indians (The ones from america, not from India). Then, we can see its not as racist (by what I gathered to be your definition of racism), since the Indian people, like every ethnic group, should have a right, by my opinion at least, to have a political and govermental entity of some kind. Dont you agree? Same goes for jewish folk.
So, you see, its not the same thing as your "white state" example, since we cant consider "white" a real ethnicity, and because in your example you already planted the notion which you hold about zionism. My claim still stands, my friend, that zionism is not inherently racist.
ClownSplooge ago
Lol what? where did I say that?
Its not a secret that journalism is a biased proffession, and as they are journalists they have a bias. Haaretz tend to be more of a leftist, liberal agenda newspaper, which is fine, but the recent election stired the political climate quite a bit in israel, specificly in the left and center.
What kind of stiring you ask? well, the left is feeling left out, even "swindled" out of their rightful votes by netanyahu. Haaretz is no different, and is acting in favour what they percive as their intrests (just as any journalist would do) and report on things that are almost non-issues as life/democracy threatning. And thats why I consider them to be a drama queen.
ClownSplooge ago
I can "admit" thats its unafair because I AM NOT DEFENDING ZIONISM!
Look dude, im simply saying that a "jewish state" doesnt have to be a racist one, the same way a zionist doesnt have to be a racist. They can be those things, the same way anyone can be, but they are not inherent with their definition. A non-jew can have equel rights in a theoretical "jewish state", Im not saying that they do in the current one, I dont care about that, only that they can, therefore its not inherently racist.
ClownSplooge ago
Even if I accept your statement as true (for the sake of the argument):
This still doesnt make zionism inherently racist, since the statement doesnt entail the "Jewification" or the expulsion of any other existing people, nor implies any sort of treatment or political status.
You can call it unfair, or even morally wrong, but it doesnt make it racist.
ClownSplooge ago
Haaretz, the eternal drama queen.
OWNtheNWO ago
Oh hey Hasbara, even in this dark corner of the internet you rear your racist schnoz.
shmegegy ago
look at you fomenting division and tension. again. JTRIG? trying to poison this sub too with your Alex Jones and your anti-jew agenda.
OWNtheNWO ago
You shouldn't talk about yourself like that.
ClownSplooge ago
Boy this really is /v/conspiracy!
pray_the_gay_away ago
Israel is pretty racist though. The two biggest political parties are openly zionist aka jewish sepremacists.
ClownSplooge ago
Im not saying that israel isnt racist, but Zionists are jewish nationalists, not jewish sepremacists, and nationalists are not inherently sepremacists or even racist.
Just for the record.
And it still doesnt make Haaretz any less of a drama queen.