My grandfather was one of the first into Auschwitz. I have second hand knowledge that everything about the Holocaust is real.
This woman has been deceived and the fact that she has been deceived for a long time does not matter.
Now should her terribly misconstrued construction of a past that doesn't shame her be forbidden by law? Never! Free speech includes the right to speak untruths and is far more important that any movement that lies about history. Does that mean that anyone should believe her? Certainly not.
My grandfather was one of the first into Auschwitz. I have second hand knowledge that everything about the Holocaust is real.
Did he see the electrocution conveyor-belt, the blast furnace, or the gas chambers on the wrong side of the camp? That's what the Soviets claimed, in Pravda, after they captured Auschwitz. Needless to say, these claims are not compatible with what historians now believe about the alleged extermination facilities there.
Does that mean that anyone should believe her? Certainly not.
If you're going to comment, perhaps you should (at least) understand what revisionists are saying? The link above should prove useful, although this is probably an easier entry point, as is this.
I understand what they say and deny every misled statement.
My grandfather was 6"10 and almost 300 lbs. A beast of a man that feared no one. I only saw him cry once.
He broke down crying the only time he spoke to me of what he saw. I believe him beyond anything a revisionist says, period.
He fed an inmate and watched him die because he was so malnourished. He saw the horror that was visited on the Jewish race and it scarred him for life. The Holocaust is real and to deny it is simply naive or purposefully forgetful.
I do not care one iota for the "historical inaccuracies" that are drummed up by those who don't want to believe.
you do not care for the historical inaccuracies??? wow, So with that rationale, why bother studying anything? LOL,Hey class, who was the first president? Nah, don't bother studying, just put down what some emotional guy tells you. LOL
He broke down crying the only time he spoke to me of what he saw
But did he ever say he saw a gas chamber? If so, how did he describe it? That's what this about.
All troops who captured the German camps were primed, by their nation's propaganda, to believe that they were extermination camps -- even the British and US troops who captured camps which historians now don't believe were centers of killing. This was done, in part, to motivate the troops to kill, by reducing their enemies to caricatures of evil monstrosity -- it happens in all wars. A malnourished former prisoner, to a solider primed by such propaganda, becomes evidence of German weapons of mass destruction -- even as no evidence of such a weapon is provided to him.
what historical record? How many where killed with a sexual torture machine? How many dies in non-existent gas chambers? How many have lied? Tell me, did you watch Oprah and her heartfelt show of two love-birds meeting over the wire? And tell me, Did you see the reaction from both the guy involved and the zionist fraternity? When not one peice of the evidence stands up to scrutiny, then there is something rotten lurking in the background.
Why the fuck does it matter if they were gassed or shot or strangled? They were killed by the millions.
It matters because if, as the evidence suggests, the gas chambers were a repeat of WWI atrocity propaganda, then millions were not killed. (Note: in 1916 it was claimed that Austrians gassed 700,000 people. It was also claimed the Germans turned corpses into soap, and operated "factories of death." Sound familiar?)
I've examined the historical record, friend, including criticisms of the narrative pushed by the victorious governments. Can you honestly say the same?
Yes. And I have spoken to 11 members of the US military that personally witnessed atrocities on the scale described. Do I have details of where everything was located and what actually happened? No. But you don't either, and slight differences in historical records are not necessarily indicative of tampering. Historical records are notoriously inaccurate from that time. What isn't inaccurate is 11 men hardened by war that cannot speak without crying about what they saw.
After my grandfather told me the stories I decided to write a paper on the Holocost for school.
The pain and horror I witnessed in the eyes of men far stronger than me is more evidence in my mind than any historical record.
I understand that you haven't experienced that and that I am just a guy on the internet, but I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Germans in WWII attempted the extermination of the Jewish race.
PS Your argument that guards were brainwashed to believe they were doing something that they were not is just asinine. Please take an actual reasoned look at the record and possibly talk to someone who experienced it first hand. It will change your mind.
you know, you really shouldn't use the "my grandfather" argument. It is a very weak form of evidence, which you merely back up with more of the same. If you cannot prove what you are stating, then do not use it as evidence. for example, (this is true) My father went through the camps, and he told me the gas chambers and the holocaust mainstream narrative where complete fabrications (He is Dutch). And when I was younger and first joined my lodge, I met an old (pre) NKVD soldier, and he also told me that even though millions on both sides died, and there where absolute nutters on both sides, the Holocaust is a fantastic lie.
But as I can in no way substantiate these claims, I cannot use them as a crutch as you do when you bring out the emotional conditioning. Seriously, if you wrote an essay on the holocaust, then I hope you added a few more points and hard evidence than that emotional crap. Otherwise, in the real world, you would get an F.
Neither your grandfather nor the 11 members of the US military you spoke to saw 6 million dead bodies. Neither did they see any document from Hitler ordering the death of jews. And they did not see an operating gas chamber. These three claims are propaganda. Rather than blathering on, take the time to follow the links that TTms has provided. A person barely has to scratch the surface to see!
Really? Which revisionist writers have you read, and how would you respond, specifically, to what you see as their strongest arguments?
And I have spoken to 11 members of the US military that personally witnessed atrocities on the scale described
Did any of them claim to have seen "gas chambers"? If so, how did they describe them?
What isn't inaccurate is 11 men hardened by war that cannot speak without crying about what they saw.
Human tragedy, i.e. incarceration + the collapse of the state which incarcerated you =/= extermination by way of a forensically undocumented weapon of mass destruction. That's what we're talking about. I don't doubt that it was traumatic to enter those camps.
I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Germans in WWII attempted the extermination of the Jewish race.
I'm just pointing out that you haven't actually done your responsible due diligence here. You dismiss the revisionist perspective without actually bothering to understand the arguments being put forward -- they would surprise you, if you were actually to follow those links.
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superwookee ago
My grandfather was one of the first into Auschwitz. I have second hand knowledge that everything about the Holocaust is real.
This woman has been deceived and the fact that she has been deceived for a long time does not matter.
Now should her terribly misconstrued construction of a past that doesn't shame her be forbidden by law? Never! Free speech includes the right to speak untruths and is far more important that any movement that lies about history. Does that mean that anyone should believe her? Certainly not.
TTrns ago
Did he see the electrocution conveyor-belt, the blast furnace, or the gas chambers on the wrong side of the camp? That's what the Soviets claimed, in Pravda, after they captured Auschwitz. Needless to say, these claims are not compatible with what historians now believe about the alleged extermination facilities there.
This has nothing to do with belief -- at least, for other people. All of the arguments of revisionist scholars are backed by evidence.
If you're going to comment, perhaps you should (at least) understand what revisionists are saying? The link above should prove useful, although this is probably an easier entry point, as is this.
superwookee ago
I understand what they say and deny every misled statement.
My grandfather was 6"10 and almost 300 lbs. A beast of a man that feared no one. I only saw him cry once.
He broke down crying the only time he spoke to me of what he saw. I believe him beyond anything a revisionist says, period.
He fed an inmate and watched him die because he was so malnourished. He saw the horror that was visited on the Jewish race and it scarred him for life. The Holocaust is real and to deny it is simply naive or purposefully forgetful.
I do not care one iota for the "historical inaccuracies" that are drummed up by those who don't want to believe.
COUSCOUS ago
you do not care for the historical inaccuracies??? wow, So with that rationale, why bother studying anything? LOL,Hey class, who was the first president? Nah, don't bother studying, just put down what some emotional guy tells you. LOL
TTrns ago
But did he ever say he saw a gas chamber? If so, how did he describe it? That's what this about.
All troops who captured the German camps were primed, by their nation's propaganda, to believe that they were extermination camps -- even the British and US troops who captured camps which historians now don't believe were centers of killing. This was done, in part, to motivate the troops to kill, by reducing their enemies to caricatures of evil monstrosity -- it happens in all wars. A malnourished former prisoner, to a solider primed by such propaganda, becomes evidence of German weapons of mass destruction -- even as no evidence of such a weapon is provided to him.
superwookee ago
Holy Fuck! Are you serious!?
Why the fuck does it matter if they were gassed or shot or strangled? They were killed by the millions.
You are seriously delusional and need to actually look at the historical record instead of inventing what you want and then looking for evidence.
COUSCOUS ago
what historical record? How many where killed with a sexual torture machine? How many dies in non-existent gas chambers? How many have lied? Tell me, did you watch Oprah and her heartfelt show of two love-birds meeting over the wire? And tell me, Did you see the reaction from both the guy involved and the zionist fraternity? When not one peice of the evidence stands up to scrutiny, then there is something rotten lurking in the background.
TTrns ago
It matters because if, as the evidence suggests, the gas chambers were a repeat of WWI atrocity propaganda, then millions were not killed. (Note: in 1916 it was claimed that Austrians gassed 700,000 people. It was also claimed the Germans turned corpses into soap, and operated "factories of death." Sound familiar?)
I've examined the historical record, friend, including criticisms of the narrative pushed by the victorious governments. Can you honestly say the same?
superwookee ago
Yes. And I have spoken to 11 members of the US military that personally witnessed atrocities on the scale described. Do I have details of where everything was located and what actually happened? No. But you don't either, and slight differences in historical records are not necessarily indicative of tampering. Historical records are notoriously inaccurate from that time. What isn't inaccurate is 11 men hardened by war that cannot speak without crying about what they saw.
After my grandfather told me the stories I decided to write a paper on the Holocost for school.
The pain and horror I witnessed in the eyes of men far stronger than me is more evidence in my mind than any historical record.
I understand that you haven't experienced that and that I am just a guy on the internet, but I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Germans in WWII attempted the extermination of the Jewish race.
PS Your argument that guards were brainwashed to believe they were doing something that they were not is just asinine. Please take an actual reasoned look at the record and possibly talk to someone who experienced it first hand. It will change your mind.
COUSCOUS ago
you know, you really shouldn't use the "my grandfather" argument. It is a very weak form of evidence, which you merely back up with more of the same. If you cannot prove what you are stating, then do not use it as evidence. for example, (this is true) My father went through the camps, and he told me the gas chambers and the holocaust mainstream narrative where complete fabrications (He is Dutch). And when I was younger and first joined my lodge, I met an old (pre) NKVD soldier, and he also told me that even though millions on both sides died, and there where absolute nutters on both sides, the Holocaust is a fantastic lie.
But as I can in no way substantiate these claims, I cannot use them as a crutch as you do when you bring out the emotional conditioning. Seriously, if you wrote an essay on the holocaust, then I hope you added a few more points and hard evidence than that emotional crap. Otherwise, in the real world, you would get an F.
grandmacaesar ago
Neither your grandfather nor the 11 members of the US military you spoke to saw 6 million dead bodies. Neither did they see any document from Hitler ordering the death of jews. And they did not see an operating gas chamber. These three claims are propaganda. Rather than blathering on, take the time to follow the links that TTms has provided. A person barely has to scratch the surface to see!
TTrns ago
Really? Which revisionist writers have you read, and how would you respond, specifically, to what you see as their strongest arguments?
Did any of them claim to have seen "gas chambers"? If so, how did they describe them?
Human tragedy, i.e. incarceration + the collapse of the state which incarcerated you =/= extermination by way of a forensically undocumented weapon of mass destruction. That's what we're talking about. I don't doubt that it was traumatic to enter those camps.
I'm just pointing out that you haven't actually done your responsible due diligence here. You dismiss the revisionist perspective without actually bothering to understand the arguments being put forward -- they would surprise you, if you were actually to follow those links.