they were being deported until the war started and then in the last year of the war they died of disease and malnutrition because of Allied saturation bombing. There was never a policy of extermination.
And then no concrete on stop shop of a source for the deaths of disease. Its a compilation of sources. The more you read into the holocaust the more you find. It deals with several factors namely the allied bombing campaign which bombed everything and anything on purpose. Leading to mass starvation of the German people and by extension the political prisoners (who are you going to feed - Your soldiers and people, or prisoners?). Malnutrition leads to disease and death. Hundreds of thousands likely died this way and their bodies were burned to prevent the spread of more disease.
Please go and cut your balls off so you don't breed if you already have not done so. It's just a pity that your parents did not have the forsight to have terminated their own pregnancy you vile piece of shit.
Why don't to just face up to the fact that whatever hatred you have of Jews stems completely from your own failure at life. Well I'm sorry but Jews didn't make you a fucking loser that wastes their time gutlessly spreading crap on internet forums that can be debunked within literally five minutes.
Read the entirety of the comment chain fucking retard you might learn something. Dont be another one of these "im right because my bias told me so" fags. The wansee conference was over what to do with the jews while at war, during the conference not once did they suggest total annihilation. If you cant be bothered to actually know your own 'facts' then dont fucking argue with others.
edit: Nice edit after the fact to throw in more personal shit flinging - keep it up you might come out on top!
None of that contradicts what I said. Those people would not have died if not for Hitler's policies. Also, it appears Hitler's lieutenants had a different agenda than Hitler himself. Which is where @MrPong's comment comes into play. There was a "final solution", and Hitler did turn his eyes away to allow it. Yet the facts remains, almost everything people are told about the details are factually incorrect.
I'm fully aware of that as common commentary. Yet it completely ignores the fact that "the final solution" is well documented (albeit commonly misappropriated and attributed) and everyone's version of history supports my statements.
The link previously provided to you does in fact document "the final solution." It's undisputed as it's a matter of written record. Clearly it denotes a continuation of previous exchanges which remained undocumented or were built upon previous verbal exchanges. Regardless, "The final solution to the Jewish question", while open to debate, is not difficult to ascertain given the behavior of some of Hitler's lieutenants. Given Hitler's well documented management style (for each their own, let them figure it out), this too is entirely in keeping with all documented management behaviors with Hitler. Meaning, the final solution is mis-attributed to Hitler, yet Hitler knew full well what was going on. At least to the extent he was turning a blind eye.
In other words, according to all documented and uncontested history, Hitler's solution was to eject Jews. They were later used as slave labor to facilitate the war effort and to expand scientific endeavors. In Hitler's mind, this is just punishment. His lieutenants, on the other hand, had different ideas. Something Hitler knew and acknowledged. While the gas chambers certainly did not exist, they had no trouble using Jews and other undesirables as highly expendable slave labor. Yes, they were fed and clothes until it became inconvenient to the war effort. This is still 100% of Hitler's responsibility. The work conditions combined with the Ally bombings and finally sudden inrush of food is what caused the lion share of massively over reported deaths.
But none of that abdicates Hitler from responsibility. Which brings us full circle to my statement of, "Actually he did. Just not in the way we're all told. And not nearly the numbers we're all told. Every modern view of western standards of ethics and law, it's impossible to correctly claim, "Hitler did nothing wrong." That, however, doesn't legitimatimize the absolute bullshit thrust upon the western world.
Just also want to clear up that we both agree it THe final solution was not to exterminate the jews, but thats what (((they))) claim it was
The “Final Solution of the Jewish Question” was the Nazi code name for the plan to murder all Jews within reach, and was not limited to the European continent
Just also want to clear up that we both agree it THe final solution was not to exterminate the jews, but thats what (((they))) claim it was
You are correct that I did not mean to be ambiguous. Please allow me to clarify. When I say, "undisputed", I mean there is documented, undisputed evidence of a, "final solution." What historians speculate on is exactly what that final solution was to be. Bluntly, we don't know exactly what the final solution was to be. What we do know is that many under Hitler were intent of kill Jews. Was this the final solution? Possible but unlikely. The vast majority of records fully substantiate that the final solution was a slave labor force. Anything beyond this was Hitler's lieutenants; albeit with Hitler's knowledge. But that significantly changes the scope and scale. Hitler's solution was very likely not genocide. That doesn't mean his underlings didn't believe otherwise.
To be clear, this doesn't paint a picture of Hitler entirely without fault, as in, "he did nothing wrong." But it's also nothing close to the lies and propaganda which has been force fed to us. Which is largely unsubstantiated by the documented record.
100% agree with everything except that "It's undisputed as it's a matter of written record" since the argument is about whether it was the policy of the Nazis to seek the total extermination of jews in europe. Not one document says the plan was to exterminate every jew in Europe. The written correspondence between senior members regarding Labor or executions of prisoners by no means supports a doctrine of total extermination. And since the senior leadership was compartmentalized with free action it only further orchestrates the point that there was no total extermination plan. Thats what Ive been arguing. Im not trying to make hitler a good guy or excuse him from responsibility.
Also the Slave labor came from criminals. Not all Jews were in harsh labor camps only the ones who had committed crimes were put in those intensive camps. Otherwise brick factories, armament factories etc were for the non criminal jews. Im not an apologist - i recognize some of the jewish massacres in villages like in Ukraine by SS troops (Ukrainian SS) but I just like all aspects to be represented fairly.
The Final solution was made up because (((they))) didnt have any actual evidence the Germans were systematically exterminating jews. Its manufactured evidence based on supposed 'euphemisms' used by Nazi command. Just like how they used Zyklon B to gas them - even though it was a delouser that even the Germany armed forces used on themselves. But because it was a german product that no one else had heard of and it was on all the supply manifests its an easy piece of 'Evidence' they can use.
Knowing they have had to back pedal on the more obvious lies theyve made; Lamp shades out of skin, Soap out of Jew fat, Homosexual orgies, The various survivor books and horror stories - And the the implausible numbers that when the math is done forces them to lower the counts at places like Auschwitz which was first at 4 million killed, dropped to 2 million, and now is at 1 million, yet the total 6 million is still in place. With these inconsistencies I can make the informed guess the Final Solution theory they put forth is a fabrication.
As for the Haavara Agreement I cant find the Palestine immigration census anymore on google but the population surge during the 30s was close to 2 million of jewish immigrants - obviously dont take my word for it, but consider it.
I don't know for sure how far goes the fabrication
What I do know for sure is that "Lamp shades out of skin, Soap out of Jew fat" is total fabrication, that official numbers, the so called 6 million figure is garbage too, and on top that, it's forbidden by law to question the oficial narrative on this particular part of history in some well known western countries, and that in itself, is highly suspicious
view the rest of the comments →
Helios-Apollo ago
He didn't actually have a holocaust of Jews, unfortunately.
Dysprosium ago
I was so sad when I learned this fact.
RoundWheel ago
Actually he did. Just not in the way we're all told. And not nearly the numbers we're all told.
Obergruppenkraken ago
Then was it really a Holocaust?
MoonMansWay ago
they were being deported until the war started and then in the last year of the war they died of disease and malnutrition because of Allied saturation bombing. There was never a policy of extermination.
Obergruppenkraken ago
Sauce? Need something to show normie friends.
MoonMansWay ago
Haavara Agreement for deportations.
And then no concrete on stop shop of a source for the deaths of disease. Its a compilation of sources. The more you read into the holocaust the more you find. It deals with several factors namely the allied bombing campaign which bombed everything and anything on purpose. Leading to mass starvation of the German people and by extension the political prisoners (who are you going to feed - Your soldiers and people, or prisoners?). Malnutrition leads to disease and death. Hundreds of thousands likely died this way and their bodies were burned to prevent the spread of more disease.
RedditSuxBalls ago
Now that is some fucking bullshit
Please go and cut your balls off so you don't breed if you already have not done so. It's just a pity that your parents did not have the forsight to have terminated their own pregnancy you vile piece of shit.
Why don't to just face up to the fact that whatever hatred you have of Jews stems completely from your own failure at life. Well I'm sorry but Jews didn't make you a fucking loser that wastes their time gutlessly spreading crap on internet forums that can be debunked within literally five minutes.
Cunt.
MoonMansWay ago
Read the entirety of the comment chain fucking retard you might learn something. Dont be another one of these "im right because my bias told me so" fags. The wansee conference was over what to do with the jews while at war, during the conference not once did they suggest total annihilation. If you cant be bothered to actually know your own 'facts' then dont fucking argue with others.
edit: Nice edit after the fact to throw in more personal shit flinging - keep it up you might come out on top!
RoundWheel ago
None of that contradicts what I said. Those people would not have died if not for Hitler's policies. Also, it appears Hitler's lieutenants had a different agenda than Hitler himself. Which is where @MrPong's comment comes into play. There was a "final solution", and Hitler did turn his eyes away to allow it. Yet the facts remains, almost everything people are told about the details are factually incorrect.
MoonMansWay ago
Ill refer you to my reply to @MrPong https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/2010092/9912874
RoundWheel ago
I'm fully aware of that as common commentary. Yet it completely ignores the fact that "the final solution" is well documented (albeit commonly misappropriated and attributed) and everyone's version of history supports my statements.
MoonMansWay ago
which documents? the Wannsee Conference?
RoundWheel ago
The link previously provided to you does in fact document "the final solution." It's undisputed as it's a matter of written record. Clearly it denotes a continuation of previous exchanges which remained undocumented or were built upon previous verbal exchanges. Regardless, "The final solution to the Jewish question", while open to debate, is not difficult to ascertain given the behavior of some of Hitler's lieutenants. Given Hitler's well documented management style (for each their own, let them figure it out), this too is entirely in keeping with all documented management behaviors with Hitler. Meaning, the final solution is mis-attributed to Hitler, yet Hitler knew full well what was going on. At least to the extent he was turning a blind eye.
In other words, according to all documented and uncontested history, Hitler's solution was to eject Jews. They were later used as slave labor to facilitate the war effort and to expand scientific endeavors. In Hitler's mind, this is just punishment. His lieutenants, on the other hand, had different ideas. Something Hitler knew and acknowledged. While the gas chambers certainly did not exist, they had no trouble using Jews and other undesirables as highly expendable slave labor. Yes, they were fed and clothes until it became inconvenient to the war effort. This is still 100% of Hitler's responsibility. The work conditions combined with the Ally bombings and finally sudden inrush of food is what caused the lion share of massively over reported deaths.
But none of that abdicates Hitler from responsibility. Which brings us full circle to my statement of, "Actually he did. Just not in the way we're all told. And not nearly the numbers we're all told. Every modern view of western standards of ethics and law, it's impossible to correctly claim, "Hitler did nothing wrong." That, however, doesn't legitimatimize the absolute bullshit thrust upon the western world.
MoonMansWay ago
Just also want to clear up that we both agree it THe final solution was not to exterminate the jews, but thats what (((they))) claim it was
from wiki
RoundWheel ago
You are correct that I did not mean to be ambiguous. Please allow me to clarify. When I say, "undisputed", I mean there is documented, undisputed evidence of a, "final solution." What historians speculate on is exactly what that final solution was to be. Bluntly, we don't know exactly what the final solution was to be. What we do know is that many under Hitler were intent of kill Jews. Was this the final solution? Possible but unlikely. The vast majority of records fully substantiate that the final solution was a slave labor force. Anything beyond this was Hitler's lieutenants; albeit with Hitler's knowledge. But that significantly changes the scope and scale. Hitler's solution was very likely not genocide. That doesn't mean his underlings didn't believe otherwise.
To be clear, this doesn't paint a picture of Hitler entirely without fault, as in, "he did nothing wrong." But it's also nothing close to the lies and propaganda which has been force fed to us. Which is largely unsubstantiated by the documented record.
MoonMansWay ago
100% agree with everything except that "It's undisputed as it's a matter of written record" since the argument is about whether it was the policy of the Nazis to seek the total extermination of jews in europe. Not one document says the plan was to exterminate every jew in Europe. The written correspondence between senior members regarding Labor or executions of prisoners by no means supports a doctrine of total extermination. And since the senior leadership was compartmentalized with free action it only further orchestrates the point that there was no total extermination plan. Thats what Ive been arguing. Im not trying to make hitler a good guy or excuse him from responsibility.
Also the Slave labor came from criminals. Not all Jews were in harsh labor camps only the ones who had committed crimes were put in those intensive camps. Otherwise brick factories, armament factories etc were for the non criminal jews. Im not an apologist - i recognize some of the jewish massacres in villages like in Ukraine by SS troops (Ukrainian SS) but I just like all aspects to be represented fairly.
9912613? ago
" There was never a policy of extermination."
There was a thing called "the final solution"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
Final, as in when all else failed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
MoonMansWay ago
The Final solution was made up because (((they))) didnt have any actual evidence the Germans were systematically exterminating jews. Its manufactured evidence based on supposed 'euphemisms' used by Nazi command. Just like how they used Zyklon B to gas them - even though it was a delouser that even the Germany armed forces used on themselves. But because it was a german product that no one else had heard of and it was on all the supply manifests its an easy piece of 'Evidence' they can use.
Knowing they have had to back pedal on the more obvious lies theyve made; Lamp shades out of skin, Soap out of Jew fat, Homosexual orgies, The various survivor books and horror stories - And the the implausible numbers that when the math is done forces them to lower the counts at places like Auschwitz which was first at 4 million killed, dropped to 2 million, and now is at 1 million, yet the total 6 million is still in place. With these inconsistencies I can make the informed guess the Final Solution theory they put forth is a fabrication.
As for the Haavara Agreement I cant find the Palestine immigration census anymore on google but the population surge during the 30s was close to 2 million of jewish immigrants - obviously dont take my word for it, but consider it.
9913151? ago
I don't know for sure how far goes the fabrication
What I do know for sure is that "Lamp shades out of skin, Soap out of Jew fat" is total fabrication, that official numbers, the so called 6 million figure is garbage too, and on top that, it's forbidden by law to question the oficial narrative on this particular part of history in some well known western countries, and that in itself, is highly suspicious