Howdy folks. We've had about a week to experiment with the new 24 Hour Reprieve flair approach to removals. In that time, we've removed a total of 35 posts and left up 143. I haven't been keeping formal track of how many were flaired and fixed, but my estimate is that about 50% of what we've flaired has been fixed and the flairs removed, and/or the submitter self-removed and reposted -- so about twice as many posts have been left up on the board.
Majority of removals are due to problematic titles
Of the 35 posts taken down in the nine days since the new flair system went live:
- 21 were Link posts that could not be edited
- 25 were Rule 3 removals because headlines did not clearly posit relevance to child sex abuse by the elite
There were several Discuss threads with vague headlines whose body text was edited to explain pizzagate relevance that we left up, and several that had inaccurate headlines that we either removed immediately or flaired and asked the submitter to self-remove. I'd like feedback about the best way to handle faulty headlines (before we get into revisiting the submission rules at some point soon).
It's not easy to repost Removed submissions with formatting and embedded links
To further complicate the issue, I did a test and confirmed that submitters cannot copypaste the source formatting of their threads to repost -- all embedded hyperlinks and text formatting must be rebuilt from scratch. :-( Headlines are difficult to write for many people and we cannot edit them. Is it worth possibly suppressing research and antagonizing researchers by removing Discuss posts solely due to problem headlines?
User @ll0O-O0ll suggested we create an "Edited Title" flair to use in combination with a better headline added by the submitter at the beginning of the post (formatted as a headline) for Discuss posts.
Please give feedback about the following questions:
1 - Should Link posts with problem headlines be given a 24 Hour Reprieve flair to gather feedback and better headline suggestions before being removed?
2 - Should Discuss threads with problem headlines that otherwise satisfy the submission rules get an "Edited Title" flair and new headline and be allowed to stay up since submitters can't copypaste formatting from Removed threads?
3 - Or, instead of option #2, should mods advise submitters of Discuss threads with problem headlines to copypaste and repost their work BEFORE the 24 Hour flair expires, while they still have access to the "source" markdown window?
4 - Is our requirement that headlines of all posts explain pizzagate relevance too onerous for users and mods? Would we be better off without it?
kazza64 ago
ive actually had a few unsecure connections come up on the titles ive clicked on recently so i dont know what thats about i like to click on the comments to take me to the post that way i dont get directly linked to youtube or where ever its going to
Theytookoutgodslaw ago
Concerned about 35 post for "censorship". A person can have discernment if the information is subjective or objective. My discernment has rationalized that voat is a hud for deep state. And people are lazy to make this decision because they want the "Truth" feed to them.
noskerdycatusa ago
I avoid linked title posts at all costs. I've tried to train myself to hover first and then click on 'comments' instead of the title so I can see what's going on with the topic before I waste my time on a links that #1) I may have already seen before, #2) Will take too much of my time to watch or read, #3) Are just plain silly or spam.
maggiethatcher ago
4 for me. You can ask the OP to put a subtitle in bold at the start of their discussion if the actual title can't be edited to suit (poss with a "Title problem" flair). If the subtitle (bold 1st para of the actual article) isn't up to scratch then give a 24hr flair.
On a more general note, I don't think we should be linking to external sites directly from the title - the link should be in the article following an intro. This is particularly the case for Youtube links which sometimes I think are just a way to get traffic to users' Youtube subs.
maggiethatcher ago
I also have no idea why I have a different size font and a horizontal line in my comment :-O
WikiLeaker560 ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faEc1-K6JL4
Flip the d in John Podesta's name.
John Pobesta.
hardrock ago
Enforcing a rule that headlines in and of themselves**** comply with all of the rules of submission is circularly illogical. If such a requirement was uniformly enforced (which it is not) then there would be no reason to continue the body of a submission because everything would have already been stated and substantiated in the headline! Might make for some VERY long headlines, as well. But (as many of us have been made humiliatingly aware) such enforcement has been spotty, arbitrary, and rare. Most headlines don't even approach such compliance (thankfully) and for that we should, I suppose, be thankful in a rueful sort of way. There is simply no need to do it. So don't. I vote for choice #4 : we would be better off without it. Solid, relevant, empirically substantiated and sensible submissions should stand or fall on their merits. Stupid, evil and/or irrelevant submissions ... evaluated on the entirety of their content ... will usually fail from either from being ignored out of existence or voated into oblivion. Only rarely should a Mod have to invest their valuable and limited time to tip bad submissions into the shithole.
letsdothis1 ago
I'm going to go against the consensus here and say that I don't have a problem with hyperlinks in the title as along as the title is descriptive and relevant for this forum. I make all types of posts: short ones, long ones and hyperlinks. And sometimes a hyperlink is useful to draw attention to something specific. The thumbnail feature tends to attract a higher rate of viewers just because of the visuals. I personally think it's a mistake to get rid of the hyperlinks. And to the people who don't like them, there is the option not to click on them. Just sayin..
I don't click on everything..we all make personal choices on what we are interested in. As long as people are conforming to the rules don't decrease the variety of threads on here just because people find hyperlinks inconvenient in getting to the comments section. It has to do with one's attitude to 'habits'.
ReddittRefugee ago
All I want to say is that I hate those fucking "link posts" that take you to some outside site.
It's way too easy for lazy morons to post these link posts that:
1) have no text explaining them or providing context,
2)that waste your time going to outside sites
3) that sometimes 404,
4) then you have to click the back button to go back to voat,
5) then you have to click on the discussion link to see discussion comments
WTF you lazy slobs! Get off your butts, do some real research, and stop wasting people's time.
2impendingdoom ago
4 - relevance to pizzagate is usually obvious or it can be explained in the text.
and no "share a link" posts. I thought this option had been disabled at one point. it would be ideal if posters included a brief description of video links but that might be asking too much.
letsdothis1 ago
I really don't understand the opposition to linked posts. If I had a video with the title "The latest news on pizzagate - an interview with the man who saw everything as he lived opposite CPP" for example, would this still be too much trouble to click on the link to watch ? I really don't get it.
ESOTERICshade ago
I am also a #4 because only the people that watch the action around constantly really understand the rules well enough to comply regularly. Posting can be a tedious gauntlet for people who don't keep a steady eye on the rules although it seems relatively easy to those who understand it. If its a shit post the content of the post will quickly reveal it to be a shit post.
Maybe the rule could be reworded such as "please try to make title as relevant as possible and reflect the content of the post as closely as possible." At least the instruction and request are still there.
Other wise I think the flair experiment has been a real success. There is now a level of respect displayed for the time and effort of the posters here that this sub has never had in the past. Sincere efforts are being made and I see progress from the efforts. Great work guys :)
kazza64 ago
i'm enjoying the new meatier choice of delicacies on the pizzagate menu since the changes were implemented .... it was getting a bit dry before .... i'm terrible all i care about is the subject matter i dont really care about the source .... it could be a homeless dude who looks like gargamel or it could be a senator .......i tend to look everywhere for info but you mods rock you are the schoolteacher marking a stack of exam papers and i love yas for doing it ...... it keeps voat classy :) i probably wont start posting because there are enough enthusiastic people already doing it and even though i have a university degree i hate formatting assignments .... always did and always will
Cargill ago
Long time reader of this sub and just want to say I like how you're asking users up front now instead of backroom rules with the owners who don't really care about pizzagate. Keep up the good work pizzagaters.
Vindicator ago
Thanks for chiming in Cargill. Voat will soon have a referendum feature that will make this process much easier than this sticky and collect comments method. Hopefully!
Cargill ago
I'm not so sure about the voting system. Plenty of people can use Tor and will spend time to abuse it. At least this way the mods can see who's posting and who are regulars.
letsdothis1 ago
Yup.
septimasexta ago
I vote #4, getting rid of headline requirements. Let the free market do its work. If the title isn't enticing or relevant, readers are less likely to click on it. Let the Voat system do the job. If someone likes the post but not the title, they can give a suggested title. It would be up to the author whether to change it or not.
I agree with Blacksmith21: 5 - NO HYPERLINKS IN TITLE
Blacksmith21 ago
5 - NO HYPERLINKS IN TITLE.
Maybe it's me, I don't click on title links not knowing what they are.
Vindicator ago
So you are saying we should not allow Link posts at all and only allow Discuss posts?
maggiethatcher ago
I agree with @Blacksmith21 (see my reply below)
Honeybee_ ago
I actually brought this up a few months back, I agree the "share a link" option leads people down the path of unknowingly breaking some of our posting rules. ♡ hi btw, just relocated and I'm back to help.
Vindicator ago
Great great great to have you back on the mod team Honeybee_! Jump in any time. Rules are the same, except we ALWAYS leave a comment inside the post, use the and 24 Hour Reprieve flair before removing. So: removal comment about what the problem is, but mention giving 24 hours to edit, distinguish your comment and apply the flair. Also, we need to ask them to reply to the mod flair comment when the post has been edited so that the flair can be removed and the post not be taken down.
With Link posts that don't explain the pizzagate relevance in the title (Rule 1 and 3), you can either remove immediately if it's a shitpost, or flair it and tell the OP they have 24 Hours to self-remove and repost with a better title.
Once a day, it's good to scroll back through the past few days of NEW and see if any 24 Hour flaired posts need to come down, double check that they weren't edited (no comment to the mods flair comment saying so), and remove citing whatever rule the orginal mod who flaired it used. If it happens to be a long, complicated thread with embedded formatting and hyperlinks, as a courtesy, copy the source text and DM it to the OP so they don't have to rebuild it from scratch if they want to repost it with changes bringing it in line with the rules. You don't have to do that if you believe it to be a nonsensical "amalek" shitpost. In that case, make a note of the removal of the post in our new "Disinfo Tracking Thread" in v/pizzagatemods.
Glad to have you on board the new team Honeybee_!
@think- @ben_matlock @EricKaliberhall @Blacksmith21
When it comes time to
Honeybee_ ago
Thank you, glad to be back ♡ I love the 24 hour flair, that's really fair and is far less daunting than creating a whole new post, love it!
Blacksmith21 ago
Welcome back @Honeybee_
Honeybee_ ago
Thank you ♡
Blacksmith21 ago
No. Just links in the title with nothing in the body of the post. Hell - Post a description of what the linked title is in the body. Take 30 seconds to give a shit about your post.
ReddittRefugee ago
^^ This
Vindicator ago
But in order to post a description of the linked title in the body of the post, it has to be a Discuss post. It cannot be a Link post, because those don't have any "body" text. So requiring submitters to provide a description of a link would require banning Link posts.
Blacksmith21 ago
I didn't know there were 2 options for a submission. I'm not into "banning" anything which would create a bigger hurdle for people to post something relevant. Maybe it's a personal thing. I'll get over it.
kestrel9 ago
Initial thoughts: It's a shame to lose good posts due to rule 3.
I like #2: the 24 hour 'edited title' flair idea for posts that otherwise meet the other rules.
I just helped out on Darkknight111 post (filling in titles on a list of PG links). His is part 3 of a series already accepted, so his title could be grandfathered in, as long as the content meets the other rules imo (which I believe it does).
Had the 24 hour period passed without him addressing the flair, I doubt he would have reposted all the very lengthy post, so in his case rule 3 really doesn't work.
Blacksmith21 ago
And yeah - if the sub rallies to support a quality post, but technically bad within the 24 hour flair, then let it stand. It's a technicality which allows shitposts to be removed.
Shitpost:
ben_matlock ago
i agree. as important as i think titles are, we should definitely err on the side of letting submissions stand if they made a strong effort in good faith (especially if the post engages the community.)
maggiethatcher ago
Also agree. If the post has 10 voats in 24 hours then it is usually a reflection of problems with the post. Flairing artificially reduces the number of voats (because voaters are reluctant to vote up a flaired article)
Cc1914 ago
Exactly!