Maybe let me know if you find somewhere you think has a more genuine exchange of opposing ideas - I'm still here because I haven't found anything suitable. I'll look at Minds, and personally think Phuks is ok, but too tiny to be a real option yet.

Voat is badly infested with fools and control freaks (this thread), but there are decent reasonable people here as well. It also has critical mass, and retains widespread and historical alignment with free speech principles, though comprehending what that means in practice is another matter.

As someone who approximately agrees with voat's hivemind opinions, you're likely to be more effective than me when it comes to improving the level of conversation around here. I hope you'll reconsider and stick around if you don't find anything better.

Sure, because voat's censorship and the resulting echochamber status is really encouraging coherent and well-articulated arguments.

Remove the CCP-based censorship and fools like you might learn to think, or just fuck off to another safespace.

Pick another subverse, try not to be such an obvious faggot. Sorry that accountibility is real and you have to make a new account. Do you sell those libtears on eGay?

Uh, ur here, faggot. Downvotes do jot equal censorship. Libtards can't get it through their heads that popularity of opinion is not a right. Go ahead and have your retarded opinions, but you're not going to get artificial upvotes from the faggots that roam here.

Oh look! Your comment is still here, unchanged! Welcome to voat!

You don't surf the subs the shills are active in. Thats not a bad thing, you're just lucky to have avoided them so far.

To not acknowledge the shills is to stick ones head so far up their ass, they think everything is fine.

Those with unpopular opinions can't spit out much of an argument because voat censors them via CCP restrictions. Educate yourself.

Disclaimer: If we’re conversing, I will soon fall silent. I may want to continue, but because my views are unpopular here I have less than 100 CCP, and am temporarily banned as soon as I make 10 comments in a day. Voat does not respect free speech. Don’t be a hypocrite and pretend that it does.

You're not activile supressing opinions like Reddit

Voat actively suppresses unpopular opinions through CCP-based censorship. I think that's a big part of why it's such an echochamber.

Disclaimer: If we’re conversing, I will soon fall silent. I may want to continue, but because my views are unpopular here I have less than 100 CCP, and am temporarily banned as soon as I make 10 comments in a day. Voat does not respect free speech. Don’t be a hypocrite and pretend that it does.

Yeah. That must be it.

You already have. Don't worry, you'll find out where soon enough.

Voat is too much an echo chamber. I will upvoats content I don't agree with if it leads to good discussion. We need more of that.

Oh boy, now I'm a shill as well. More icky labels that make your dick hard.

The point is that it's a tell. And you were caught.

What any sane person would take away from my question is "Why would Israel want to do this?", which is literally and precisely what I asked.

Just out of curiosity, why do conspiratards think Israel wanted to sink a US ship?

Vs "Why would Israel want to do this?" Do I need to make a submission where I ask people what they think the difference is?

It's not like you have a stellar reputation of being a reasonable person, and your "conspiratards" pretty much pigeon-holes you into being, well, exactly what everyone thought you were.

the attack was shoddy and left a lot of survivors for a very long time, and that they admitted to the attack mere hours after it happened, that reasoning doesn't convince me much. Still looks like an accidental attack to me.

An accident, eh kike?

At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing “a US Navy cargo type ship,” just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings “GTR-5”.11 This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.

Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty’s position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.13 At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Janes’ Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.

From 0900 hours on June 8, 1967, until the time of the attack five hours later, USS Liberty maintained a speed of approximately five knots and a generally westerlynorthwesterly course.

At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty’s crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.

Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm.

During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request assistance due to intense communications jamming.

The initial targets on the ship were the command bridge, communications antennas, and the four .50 caliber machine guns, placed on the ship to repel boarders.

http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

Say it was an accident again, I fucking dare you.

With reason and logic against dishonest lies?

Your perception of reality is skewed.

Oy vey, in that case I should convert right away.

Nothing you do will matter after DotR.

That's literally all you can make an assertion about, unless you're sitting on the tree across my window.

I'm calling you a Jew. Everything else is fluff designed to get you to slip up and make another embarrassing archive of Jewish shame.

So you're admitting that I never denied Israel sinking the USS Liberty?

Just out of curiosity, why do conspiratards think Israel wanted to sink a US ship?

I'm sure you just meant "why do these nice conspiracy theorists think it happened?"

Not, you know, what everyone would take away from your words, which is you denying Israel sank the ship.

As @Kal said: "Shills haven't learned that 'conspiritards' is only a tell at this point."

There's really a great deal of Jewish pretending to not understand going around. I'm wondering if it's actually an act, or if Jews really just inbred themselves into abject stupidity.

You literally said that two or three comments ago, right before you backpedaled.

So?

I don't care enough to archive your shit and link it here, but anyone can click "parent" a bunch of times and see you justify your lack of a counter-argument with the statement "nobody here believes you, so I'm right".

Of course they don't, because you're responding like a Jew. I'm not making assertions about your mindset, or thoughts. I'm making a claim based on your words here. A claim most will find to have merit.

Intellectually dishonest to the last.

I bet it hurts to not be able to pin that on me.

Just out of curiosity, why do conspiratards think Israel wanted to sink a US ship?

What would the grand plan behind that be?

You label me with something despite giving no reason or evidence for it being true.

And others can read what is written and decide for themselves.

Viewing you through the lens of a mentally handicapped ideologue on the same level as a feminist allows your otherwise incomprehensible behaviour to be understood.

"no u" kek.

It's funny that someone who cares more about his buddies' opinions than arguments would require proof.

Well, you seem to be making assertions about what I think. There's a good bit of difference between that and calling you out as your particular branch of subhuman.

By your own definition, I'd just need to get a bunch of people agreeing with me in here and that would make me right.

That's not really how it works, and I find it hilarious that you would basically admit that here.

Because it was the first comment under OP, faggot. Even kikepedia hasn't scrubbed the fact that it was an attack by Israel yet. http://archive.is/NRxO2

Getting called jew by an alt-righter like you is like getting called racist or misogynist by a feminist.

Well, I would assume such a thing would hurt your feelings, but being a Jew, only being called out as a Jew really does anything to rattle you.

You think a false label gives you power over me, like some 3rd grader calling someone a poopyhead.

Do I? I don't think you could prove such a thing.

The label is a lens that allows your otherwise incomprehensible behaviour to be understood. Also, it really seems to bug you when I call you a Jew.

For anyone reading this, if you're wondering:

http://archive.is/2p9pG

I bet you think it means something when you say such things; coming from a Jew, it is like a poodle yapping.

Let's see, I debunked everything you said, you reply with "my butt buddies still like me more than you".

You did nothing of the sort, and I merely stated that nobody is going to believe your claim. Nice try, Schlomo.

It's like a mayo-gendered butter barge telling you "well, everyone in my women's studies course agrees with me" when they run our of arguments.

You wish it were even remotely like that. Your example is oddly specific.

The ultimate admission of defeat.

Again, a figment of your imagination.

You need to get out some time.

Telling people on the net what to do. Well done.

More of that Jew brain of yours making shit up.

The only thing that matters here is that nobody believes you, Chaim.

alt-kike isn't against Jews. Nice try, kike.

I refuse to acknowledge it because it's not. And once again, the Left reverts to it's age old tactic of simply reinventing the definitions of words to suit their victimhood agenda.

Figured the Jew would have something to say.

Counterexample to your entire comment:

Voat's viewpoint on Jews. No migration needed. And with that, your entire response is shown to be false.

I've been on here way too long to have never read that. Ty

I don't understand this. I agree with this stuff, but this is just creating yet another alternative echochamber, just like Gab.

Not everyone here has a clue about Gab, I'm one of them.

This isn't an echo chamber at all, the /v/introductions sticky merely laid down the scoresheet of what ideas won out here. The ideas that win here are the ideas that are best supported and argued for.

As almost everyone else in these comments said, your post has not been deleted, so attempting to put Voat in the same basket as rEddit is dishonest, and shows that you're not really here to discuss anything earnestly. If you're just here to spew bullshit, you'll be happy to know that you join the ranks of some of the most stubborn, loudmouthed, dishonest people most of us have ever come across.

The people whose ranks you'll join by arguing dishonestly are the kind that will never, no matter how well supported the other side is, change their minds, or even admit that there might be an ounce of merit to the alternative viewpoint.

With just the quoted line I'm justified in calling you a concern troll.

You're not activile supressing opinions like Reddit, but instead it's activile encouraged to have only certain types of opinions.

What a shocker that having opinions that win in arguments is encouraged! WE CAN'T HAVE THAT! MUH EQUALITY!

You're not making a good case for your continued presence here. You're also not doing any favors to those few that constantly whine about our hard-fought narrative, since your argument seems to be from a position of "equality = good".

Not all beings are created equal, not all ideas are created equal. Some ideas, given a platform upon which they can be heard simply fail, and your entire post suggests that you believe this could not possibly have happened.

I know not whether it's because you think it impossible, or because you just cannot cognitively comprehend that events could have happened before you came here causing other narratives to die off.

I fail to see how that's any better.

Then your mind is broken. You may have a mind that is workable for the current IRL rEddit-esque narrative, but once the pendulum swing causes that SJW shit to die, you'll be stuck wondering how we ever came to better conclusions about reality than those degenerates.

You're basically admitting here that you believe no idea deserves a pedestal, and while in the SJW world, where every idea is just as shit-tier as the next, you might be right, in a free-speech zone the best ideas deserve their pedestal.

EDIT: Most seem to fail to understand/know that what I quoted above is from v/introductions only stickied post: https://voat.co/v/introductions/1350015

I wrote that crash-course introduction to Voat, and it works for 99% of the people that stick around here. It wasn't designed to hold your fucking hand through tossing away rEddit-tier beliefs and axioms that are honestly embarrassing.

TL;DR

Came for a neutral ground. Was dissapointed that that's not the case.

"Came for a place where all ideas are treated as equal, no matter which ones are argued best, or best supported by sources, like rEddit."

Stop whining, you pussy. You are repeating yourself, like your own echo.

Then stay here and challenge the status quo. You might get downvotes but that's probably it. I was talking with a transgender the other day on here. We disagreed about some stuff but I respected the hell out of them for being willing to show up here.

Well, no-platforming is instantaneous and absolute, and tends to be mostly pro-active - though one does have to "out" himself as a "toxic" individual before being targeted - usually.

Negative CCP reflects a building community reaction to what is generally bullshit content. There are those who use it for the purpose of no-platforming, and we have a word for that: brigading. And that's against site rules. But I would argue that the honor system is working for the most part on this issue. It's understood that downvoting is not simply an "I disagree" button, but to be used against content that doesn't actually further the discussion. That's what I try to do, and that's what I've observed. It's been used (properly) against me, and I accept it, because those weren't my finer moments on this site.

This notion of abolishing all things that might possibly maybe be abused en masse is ineffective on a good day, destructive on a bad one.

The difference is that here on voat, we can literally say whatever we want and often do. That means that, yes, we have conversations where we will take opposite sides just to have the discussion and learn from that discussion.

Welcome to the cold civil war mother fucker.

Your opinion conflicts with the majority opinion here all the time.

And you still remain heard.

And that's what's known as coming full circle.

Either that, or I just enjoy social harmony. I guess we'll never know for certain.

And thanks to the last Nigger in office we have become far to polarized to ever have another 2009 version of readdit

Who the fuck told you WikiLeaks was real news

Then the issue is one of semantics.

What you call a "safe space" is what we call "social harmony". What we call a safe space is a place where no-platforming (McCarthysim) occurs - in the digital world, that means the deleting of posts that violate the narrative. How can you accuse someone of dishonesty without reaching a consensus on language first?

So you actually believe a modicum of social harmony is bad?

A piece to the puzzle that is Leftism falls into place...

Then why are you here, and permitted to voice your opinions?

I can't help but notice your post hasn't been deleted. This fact indicates you to be a little bitch that complains for the sake of complaining.

Good luck out there man.

They aren't being encouraged by anyone. If they were, I could contact an Admin right now and have you banned.

That's because you're an idiot. Here on voat one is encouraged to have their own opinion. One had also better expect that opinion to be challenged and be able to back up their reasoning in the face of criticism. If that sounds like an echo chamber to you, like i said earlier, you're an idiot. Just how much did the comment you posted in response to my comment add to the discussion? You're a hypocrite too

Thanks, I'm gonna get bacon and eggs for breakfast.

It's almost lunch time for you, isn't it?

Neogaf actively bans anyone who disagrees. So does reddit. Those are echo chambers.

Majority public opinion is not an echo chamber at all.

You see, you sound like you're saying "What's up with all these people who are against murder? Is this some kind of anti-murder echo chamber?"

because I'm not a dishonest, tribalist faggot like you.

Of course you're not, officially, one.

Being a faggot in islam = death.

But you already know that, goat fucking inbred.

You're always the first one jumping in discussions criticising islam.

https://archive.is/RbcGd

Try to remember what you are saying on voat.

Try to have an open discussion and criticize Islam in the Shitholistan.

Organic echo chambers aren't the kind of echo chambers you're thinking of when you use that buzzword.

Let me know when your post gets deleted for going against groupthink.

Because your Quran is not an echo chamber?

You may leave at any time.

Say what you want, don't get censored or banned... Is that so difficult for your brain to ACTIVELY understand?

This is not a SAFE SPACE you fcuck!

This is organic discussion, of the type you get when a platform is not actively censored. This is how most people feel.

There can be great discussions on opinions, but beware the shills.

You're not activile supressing opinions like Reddit, but instead it's activile encouraged to have only certain types of opinions.

You're free to express yours, we are free to disagree.

Small brains fail to see a lot of things